I might have to go to a very tight yard tonight in an artic. Bays are on the left as you go in but towards the end there is some space where I’ve seen shunters do u-turns (with a shunter unit) and that’s my plan to avoid a disastrous 90 degree blindside reverse. What would you say is the minimum distance one should have on the side of the (tri-axle) trailer before safely doing a ‘hard’ u-turn? I don’t want to find out the hard way.
Bonus question- if you have a lifting middle axle on the unit when would you lower it, as in what weight would your trailer have to be? I notice everyone at our yard is driving with it lifted (fridge trailers but light goods, I’d say no more than 6-7 tonne load weight for a full trailer, maybe up to 10?)
p.s. only my 4th class 1 shift so not trolling, seriously asking.
All depends on how sharp the turn is. If we’re talking close to jack-knife turn, the thing to look out for it the trailer creeping backwards. Obviously the sharper the turn, the further away from the obstacle you need to be.
A yard shunter can spin on a dime, it’s unlikely that your unit will achieve the same result, ultimately getting you stuck.
If you have a rear window, a 90 degree blind side is easier. Even without a window, adjust your mirrors so you can see the rear of the trailer, get out and look and of course don’t be a ■■■■■ take a shunt.
As for mid-lift…it’ll lower if the weight is too much and will only lift if the weight is not too much on the rear axle, usually rated to 11.5t. Advantages of having the mid-lift up is easier manoeuvrability and smaller turning circle, although not by a noticeable difference.
stuwozere1:
All depends on how sharp the turn is. If we’re talking close to jack-knife turn, the thing to look out for it the trailer creeping backwards. Obviously the sharper the turn, the further away from the obstacle you need to be.
stuwozere1:
All depends on how sharp the turn is. If we’re talking close to jack-knife turn, the thing to look out for it the trailer creeping backwards. Obviously the sharper the turn, the further away from the obstacle you need to be.
Would be easier to spin it round to the left of that picture then down where the yard is narrower. Yes it’ll be a longer reverse but 10 times easier
stuwozere1:
All depends on how sharp the turn is. If we’re talking close to jack-knife turn, the thing to look out for it the trailer creeping backwards. Obviously the sharper the turn, the further away from the obstacle you need to be.
Would be easier to spin it round to the left of that picture then down where the yard is narrower. Yes it’ll be a longer reverse but 10 times easier
That space is rarely available at night. They keep a few trailers on that side opposite the bays and instead use the space I’ve circled for turning and that’s if the 3rd bay is unoccupied (to the left of the red arrow) otherwise it’s an even smaller radius. Let’s hope there won’t be anything near the entrance tonight so I can turn there indeed
I’d still like to know though about the space on the side of your trailer if you’d need for a turn like this , for example. Let’s say not as hard as causing the trailer to roll back.
stuwozere1:
All depends on how sharp the turn is. If we’re talking close to jack-knife turn, the thing to look out for it the trailer creeping backwards. Obviously the sharper the turn, the further away from the obstacle you need to be.
Would be easier to spin it round to the left of that picture then down where the yard is narrower. Yes it’ll be a longer reverse but 10 times easier
That space is rarely available at night. They keep a few trailers on that side opposite the bays and instead use the space I’ve circled for turning and that’s if the 3rd bay is unoccupied (to the left of the red arrow) otherwise it’s an even smaller radius. Let’s hope there won’t be anything near the entrance tonight so I can turn there indeed
I’d still like to know though about the space on the side of your trailer if you’d need for a turn like this , for example. Let’s say not as hard as causing the trailer to roll back.
If no-one is there to assist…just guess.
But do it slowly, and get out and walk to the rear frequently to keep checking for clearance. Slow but you will learn what is happening.
If anyone else is doing it, assist them, or at least watch closely to see both how they do it, and how trailers react in tight turns.
I’ve been binge watching his videos for the last week, I’ve learned a lot (flipping the picture in my mind). Shame there’s no one doing anything similar in the UK or Europe. His drone alone costs £950, he doesn’t have that many subscribers but he keeps making these videos. But he only has 2 axles so his swing is smaller I suppose?
Lifting middle axles usually drop when there’s enough weight imposed on the tractor, if it will stay up (and 10 tons max load it should) then i leave the thing up, sometimes they’ll stay up for ages then when weight increases over undulations you find it’s dropped anyway.
As said, for really tight turns i prefer a clockwise turn so i can see the back of the trailer (in practice my air lines all connect on the NS of the tank, so prefer an anti clockwise), but layout of the area sometimes gives you no option to choose which way you’ll turn, if its really tight i might be inclined to drop all air lines except the red line for the turn, last thing you need is snagged and snapped air line or suzi, you could drop the red off too and use the shunt button if you think there’s danger of snapping a line.
Try and make the turn as gentle as possible, and don’t make it impossible for you to back out again on the same lock if it can’t be done with your tractor, so try and make the turn in one arc because if you take a second bite and it won’t go, you can be in a pickle for backing it back out again having involved that second bite, amnd don’'t approach the turn too close to the side you are turning away from, remember rear overhang.
Its always worse in the dark, check carefully for protruberances on the walls or whatever borders you are turning inside, easy to miss somethiing sticking a foot out from the wall that doesn’t go all the way down to ground level.
If that pic if the yard it doesn’t look all that tight. But if you are going to do it and you are unsure jump out and check. I prefer units with a flat floor. Then both windows down, steering wheel up - and for blindsiding walk back and forth if you need to and look out of the passenger window. You can do the same when making a tight turn. Don’t rely on the blindspot mirrors as they will give you a dodgy perspective if you are not experienced.
Any decent driver will offer to watch you back - generally it’s the Euro blokes who get slated on here who jump out and watch you back. Also remember it doesn’t matter how long it takes as long as you don’t hit anything. If you do need to blindside it in then get the trailer in the right position and then jackknife it if you can.
I might make a video myself giving my top reversing and blindsiding tips. I see many blokes far older than me and who have done the job far longer who are not very good. I don’t claim to be the best in the world but I have it all worked out.
Reminds me of bay 25 on the chill side of Safeway/Morrison’s Stockton.
It’s the first bay as you drive around the building, high kerbs and very little room to do it on your good side as you’d inevitably find yourself wedged in the corner of the yard, so it was either blind side it 90’ as you drive straight in, or up to the top, spin round then turn the cab across the face of the bay with the trl wheels next to the kerb apex then hook it sharp around trying not to hit the truck on bay 24. This was my baptism test when I first started, I was shown once how to do it by one of the drivers then told to get on with it
If you have several empty bays next to the one you want then that would give you more room to play with turning round.
Like others have said just go very slow and get out and check every few feet, it will also help you get your head around how the trailer behaves. Just be careful Jack knifing it sounds in case you smash the wind deflectors or pull out a Susie/lead.
If there are other drivers around ask them how they do it./get them to help you. Ask the shunter… watch what others do…
Mid lift, lift it up when manueovering it will help a bit. Don’t worry too much about it, it should be automatic and will go up and down when required.
I could if the space to the left in the image is free but they keep some trailers there usually so I’m thinking worst case scenario (you can see the yellow lines there - those are parking bays but at that time when the image was taken they happened to be empty. Or they put rigids there which have been loaded and are ready to go)
I wouldn’t try a turn based on a shunter unit, assuming you mean one of the yellow type rather than just a cab unit.
One trick from those you can part replicate is lifting the unit suspension. This seems to make the turning faster, but do be careful as it could possibly make a heavy trailer a bit less stable (mostly applies to high trailers).
In the case you’re showing there, I would be extremely careful. Normally I work on the principle that I need 1.5x the length of the trailer to turn. That gives a decent area to turn and any less makes the ■■■■ cheeks clench.
Ultimately, you just get there and see how it looks. Oh and try to plan your backout strategy before you move.
You don’t have to go round in a full circle in one hit.
Although at face value it looks like there’s easily enough to do it.
But if the bays are empty as shown you can go round to the left with the unit going towards the dock with its offside front corner.But leave enough room to then reverse the lock hard to the right you’ll then end up with the unit facing the dock with the trailer forming the base of the L shape.Then just reverse it to straighten the unit and you’ll be facing the right direction to drive out then reverse on your good side.
If it’s a heavy trailer then you shouldn’t be screwing it round there anyway as it’ll wreck the tyres. A light trailer is doable but as Judd says, take your lines off beforehand and shove in your shunt button on the trailer (next to the park brake button) - make sure your unit hand brake is on before doing it . If the shunt button springs back out and won’t stay in, you can pull the button off and take out the spring behind it and chuck it in the bin - it will stay in then The point of taking your lines off (and by extension, requiring the shunt button to release the brakes as you can’t do it with your lines disconnected) is so that when you screw it you don’t stretch your lines and - more importantly - you stop them from dragging across the leading edge of the trailer which will be lathered in fifth wheel grease which will get all over your lines, cat walk, clothes, boots, gloves, car seat/carpet, floor at home… it gets everywhere.
Just be aware that you’ve no trailer braking when you’re moving on the shunt button with your lines off. This is manageable with a light trailer, but a heavy trailer needs careful handling as your foot brake pedal effectiveness is reduced by half and believe me, your arse will nip if you need to stop it quickly if you’ve built up a bit of a speed .
If it’s practical to turn round outside and reverse in, do that, then you’re on your good side.
Take your time and do get out and have a butchers at any time you’re feeling unsure on clearances. Don’t just keep edging forwards, hoping for the best, as that’s how the scrapes happen. Also watch your front corner trailer overhang too. You might get cab round okay, but your trailer corner will be heading for the stacks of pallets in the corner, cages, other yard junk etc, until you’ve straightened it up.
R420:
If it’s a heavy trailer then you shouldn’t be screwing it round there anyway as it’ll wreck the tyres. A light trailer is doable but as Judd says, take your lines off beforehand and shove in your shunt button on the trailer (next to the park brake button) - make sure your unit hand brake is on before doing it . If the shunt button springs back out and won’t stay in, you can pull the button off and take out the spring behind it and chuck it in the bin - it will stay in then The point of taking your lines off (and by extension, requiring the shunt button to release the brakes as you can’t do it with your lines disconnected) is so that when you screw it you don’t stretch your lines and - more importantly - you stop them from dragging across the leading edge of the trailer which will be lathered in fifth wheel grease which will get all over your lines, cat walk, clothes, boots, gloves, car seat/carpet, floor at home… it gets everywhere.
Just be aware that you’ve no trailer braking when you’re moving on the shunt button with your lines off. This is manageable with a light trailer, but a heavy trailer needs careful handling as your foot brake pedal effectiveness is reduced by half and believe me, your arse will nip if you need to stop it quickly if you’ve built up a bit of a speed .
If it’s practical to turn round outside and reverse in, do that, then you’re on your good side.
Take your time and do get out and have a butchers at any time you’re feeling unsure on clearances. Don’t just keep edging forwards, hoping for the best, as that’s how the scrapes happen. Also watch your front corner trailer overhang too. You might get cab round okay, but your trailer corner will be heading for the stacks of pallets in the corner, cages, other yard junk etc, until you’ve straightened it up.
Careful with the shunt button - and remember to put airlines back on. I once took a trailer all the way from Southampton to Boots Nottingham with not a single airline/susie connected. Wasn’t too heavy and got away with it. But if you forget you might end up taking it out with no lights/indictators or trailer braking etc.
. If the shunt button springs back out and won’t stay in, you can pull the button off and take out the spring behind it and chuck it in the bin - it will stay in then The point of taking your lines off (and by extension, requiring the shunt button to release the brakes as you can’t do it with your lines disconnected) is so that when you screw it you don’t stretch your lines and - more importantly - you stop them from dragging across the leading edge of the trailer which will be lathered in fifth wheel grease which will get all over your lines, cat walk, clothes, boots, gloves, car seat/carpet, floor at home… it gets everywhere.
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