Did not hear about this but this is the verdict, i notice the car driver was not wearing a seatbelt and must have seen the truck across the carriageway in front of him if he was looking…maybe i’m wrong■■?
Don’t know the details of the case… More information would be interesting…
Perhaps there was a safer way for the driver to join the road again… It’s 5am… wait for a big enough gap to do his odd maneuver… OR use the nearest roundabout.
Clearly a very unfortunate event… what’s the point of marker lights if you can go to prison for a car driver failing to stop for an obvious obstruction?
It seems very harsh punishment even if he was partly to blame.
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Weirdly the hgv driver in that crash a few months back with the bus in a similar situation wasn’t even arrested.
Seems very harsh unless there is more to the story than is in that article.
Chillidoritos:
Don’t know the details of the case… More information would be interesting…Perhaps there was a safer way for the driver to join the road again… It’s 5am… wait for a big enough gap to do his odd maneuver… OR use the nearest roundabout.
Clearly a very unfortunate event… what’s the point of marker lights if you can go to prison for a car driver failing to stop for an obvious obstruction?
It seems very harsh punishment even if he was partly to blame.
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Agreed…if you come out of the cafe and want to go west you have to cross the eastbound carriageway, not the best solution but the nearest roundabout is a fair distance away and if fully freighted a lot of steep gradient to negotiate, feel for both the HGV driver and the family of the deceased, maybe they should block the crossing point off so you can only rejoin going east?
From the link, without any other input. I dont know the section of road at all. A driver pulls onto one lane of a dual carriageway, stops across the carriageway to let the other lane clear, so he can join that far lane? Would you pull across a road if the road or lane you wish to enter isnt free? And in the dark, too?
Didnt the car driver see the side markers? Didnt the truck driver see the headlights?
Wasnt he relying on other road users to make allowance for his error of entering one side of the dual carriageway without a safe exit? If there is a bend, or brow of hill or whatever here, I repeat I dont know the road, then he was taking a gamble.
Bet lost. One lost a life, one lost two years.
Nearest roundabout?? About 35 miles east at Scotch Corner, then 35 miles back. Time for another break. Pull in to cafe. This could get silly.
I dont know what the lad could have done. Its not a cafe I use for just that reason. I dont think visibility from the cafe to the east is very good , youve more or less got to go across the central rezzy to turn right. I thought you had to drive at a speed where you could stop if there was an obstruction in the road.
A bit harsh methinks.
Franglais:
From the link, without any other input. I dont know the section of road at all. A driver pulls onto one lane of a dual carriageway, stops across the carriageway to let the other lane clear, so he can join that far lane? Would you pull across a road if the road or lane you wish to enter isnt free? And in the dark, too?NO
Didnt the car driver see the side markers? Didnt the truck driver see the headlights?Who knows
Wasn`t he relying on other road users to make allowance for his error of entering one side of the dual carriageway without a safe exit?Perhaps, maybe just bad judgment
If there is a bend, or brow of hill or whatever here,There is a brow yes
I repeat I don`t know the road, then he was taking a gamble.
Agreed
Bet lost. One lost a life, one lost two years.
A lorry driver from Sheffield has been jailed, after he was found guilty of causing the death of another motorist in an early morning horror crash.
Ashley Cole, of Ecclesfield, admitted a charge of causing death careless driving in relation to the crash on the A66 trans-pennine road that killed motorist, Jamie Armstrong.
He denied causing death by dangerous driving, but jurors found him unanimously guilty of the charge, following a week-long trial at Carlisle Crown Court.
At the conclusion of the trial today (Wednesday, August 29) Judge Barbara Forrester jailed 56-year-old Cole for two years and banned him from driving for two years on his release from prison. Cole will also be required to take an extended driving test, should he wish to get behind the wheel again.
Mr Armstrong had been travelling to work in the North East when the crash took place at around 5.20am on September 8, 2016.
He suffered ‘catastrophic’ and fatal head injuries in the collision.
In a moving statement released by Mr Armstrong’s family, they described him as a ‘fun loving lad’ who lived life to the full and loved travelling and work.
They added: "He will be sadly missed by all who knew him.”
The court heard how Cole, a dad-of-two, drove out of Stainmore Cafe car park - between Penrith and Scotch Corner - at 5-20am after resting overnight.
He travelled across the eastbound carriageway, and temporarily stopped the tractor unit of his furniture-laden HGV in the central reservation while waiting to turn west.
Opening the case at the beginning of the trial, prosecutor, Charles Brown, said Cole waited in the central reservation for 15 seconds.
‘His trailer blocked the entirety of the eastbound carriageway’ he had crossed, said Mr Brown, and was ‘smack bang’ across it.
“He had been travelling for only approximately a second or so when Jamie Armstrong’s vehicle drove into collision with the side of his trailer,” said Mr Brown.
Giving evidence, Cole spoke of hearing ‘a big bang from the right hand side’ as the fatal collision occurred.
“As far as I know the right hand side was clear. I thought there was no issue,” he said.
“I’d got my window down already. Everything fell off the shelves,” he continued. “I got out and saw Mr Armstrong’s car underneath my trailer.” Cole immediately called the emergency services.
During cross-examination, Mr Brown suggested the truck driver would have seen Mr Armstrong’s headlights if he had looked right. But Cole replied: “I did look.” He added: “They were not there.”
A police collision investigator concluded Mr Armstrong’s vehicle, due to the sloping road layout, would have been ‘out of view’ to Cole from almost a mile away until less than 400 metres from the scene.
The investigator spoke of a ‘difficult’ central reservation junction which the HGV driver had also told police was ‘awkward’.
The last line tells you they should stop vehicles crossing the carriageway to go west
Be interesting to know how fast the car was coming too. When they mention Audi A4, plus not wearing seatbelt I’m kindof inclined to wonder how well he was driving. The fact that they say even wearing a belt wouldn’t have saved him makes me think this was seriously high speed. Not sure I’ve ever seen an Audi being driven sensibly!
But of course it’s the HGV driver who’s apparently automatically at fault regardless, unless the trailer didn’t have working sidelights (probably hard to test after the crash) or had waited across the road for a very long time. Trouble is we never get all the details from these cases.
Another that annoyed me a few years ago on that road was during the Appleby Horse Fair when a truck hit one of the horse driven caravans from our travelling friends. Nasty crash, but it was all apparently due to the HGV…not that the caravan was on a dual carriageway with no warning lights etc. Very very one sided.
Condolences to the family of the deceased but this just just seems like an unfortunate accident. Very harsh sentencing. Doubt a seatbelt would have saved his life but if you arent even going to wear one what are the chances he was going the speed limit? Very unlikely i would say.
Sad for all concerned bit confusing tho . The report says the truck was out of visibility to mr Cole for over a mile until under 400m the average stopping distance for an average size car including reaction time is 96m. Not knowing the cafe would it have been better to wait for the two truck to clear then cross both carriageways if it was still clear from other direction
I do know that road and that cafe, a favourite of mine going back to the '60s long before it was dualled. But I have been that way since and the central reservation is approx. 20 metres wide. If it was me I would have got as far as I could and then parallelled the road with the unit watching west bound traffic in the mirror. Perhaps he didn’t do that, but even so I would have doubted that he covered the eastbound completely.
The view to the east is not that good, there being a brow someway back, though not so close that the driver would not have seen headlights before starting from the cafe.
The most telling thing for me is the police report that there was only 400 metres of view to the west, even if the artic driver had not seen approaching lights from the east and had had a clear run without stopping, and if the car was travelling at great speed, it is unlikely that he could have cleared the junction.
I would have thought an appeal to both conviction and sentence is well in order.
And a re-design of the central reservation to allow for a longer waiting lane. There is a long waiting lane for westbound traffic to get into the cafe, why not another for those emerging to the west?
chester1:
Sad for all concerned bit confusing tho . The report says the truck was out of visibility to mr Cole for over a mile until under 400m the average stopping distance for an average size car including reaction time is 96m. Not knowing the cafe would it have been better to wait for the two truck to clear then cross both carriageways if it was still clear from other direction
At 70 mph you are travelling at approximately 30 metres per second. This would have given the car driver approximately 10s to react. At 5.20 a.m. (or at any time) it is quite possible to not be fully concentrating on the road for that length of time (changing radio stations, looking at sat nav/phone, etc). Equally from a standing start it can take an artic several seconds to cover (and clear) the distance to the opposite side of a dual carriageway.
The view coming out of the cafe is not great in either direction with westbound traffic (i.e. the two artics) coming round a corner out of a slight dip.
The nearest decent turning point to the east is the junction with the A67 approximately 10 miles away. This would add maybe 30 minutes to the journey time
Unnamed Road, Kirkby Stephen CA17 4EU, UK
goo.gl/maps/Wd5DeEV2qvH2
"At 70 mph you are travelling at approximately 30 metres per second. This would have given the car driver approximately 10s to react. At 5.20 a.m. (or at any time) it is quite possible to not be fully concentrating on the road for that length of time (changing radio stations, looking at sat nav/phone, etc). "
10 seconds to react, yet he didn´t. Stopping distance 100m. View distance 400m.
I hope this driver appeals this sentence.
RIPPER:
Did not hear about this but this is the verdict, i notice the car driver was not wearing a seatbelt and must have seen the truck across the carriageway in front of him if he was looking…maybe i’m wrong■■?
I do that run a hell of a lot. The cafe is actually just past the crest of a convex curved part of the climb.
This is a very very good Google Streetview. It is just after the end of the layby just before the truckstop and it shows two trucks on the westbound carriageway who are already a hundred metres past the truckstop. The cafe is just 200 metres away.
google.co.uk/maps/@54.52563 … 312!8i6656
Take into account that is the Google Camera’s view which is double the height of a car driver’s view. Official HC Stopping distance at 70MPH is 96 metres and chances are he wasn’t much off that before he would see the truck and at 5.20am on September 8th it would be dark enough that the only indication of a truck being there for an approaching car would be side marker lights spread across the road which for a normal car driver would take longer to process in their head that something was there than seeing the side of a trailer in broad daylight.
Conor:
RIPPER:
Did not hear about this but this is the verdict, i notice the car driver was not wearing a seatbelt and must have seen the truck across the carriageway in front of him if he was looking…maybe i’m wrong■■?I do that run a hell of a lot. The cafe is actually just past the crest of a convex curved part of the climb.
This is a very very good Google Streetview. It is just after the end of the layby just before the truckstop and it shows two trucks on the westbound carriageway who are already a hundred metres past the truckstop. The cafe is just 200 metres away.google.co.uk/maps/@54.52563 … 312!8i6656
Take into account that is the Google Camera’s view which is double the height of a car driver’s view. Official HC Stopping distance at 70MPH is 96 metres and chances are he wasn’t much off that before he would see the truck. You only need to be say looking at the nice view for a second and you’ve no chance of stopping.
Stopping distances are out of date with modern brakes.
Also, you don’t need to stop to not die. Hit the trailer at sub 20 mph and you will be hurt but alive.
A tragedy for all - but a miscarriage of justice for the driver from what I’ve read imo.
Finally - 70mph is the limit. I don’t always drive at 56mph in a wagon on a duel carriageway. I drive at a safe speed that will allow me to stop in the space I can see. That might annoy some - but it’s safe driving. If he was travelling so fast he couldn’t stop it’s not the truck drivers fault.
sammym:
Finally - 70mph is the limit. I don’t always drive at 56mph in a wagon on a duel carriageway. I drive at a safe speed that will allow me to stop in the space I can see. That might annoy some - but it’s safe driving. If he was travelling so fast he couldn’t stop it’s not the truck drivers fault.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt as you’ve only been driving a week, I doubt you’ve ever been over the A66 and certainly not enough times to know it well enough and your posts are not proving yourself to be that good at driving…
It was dark, the truck was over the crest of a hill which doesn’t appear to be one as you’re driving along it, the only thing he would have seen were the side marker lights. Stand 150 feet awayto the side of your truck, the distance he’d need to do a well hard brake from 70MPH, when you’re somewhere which is pitch black on a night and tell me how prominent those side marker lights look…
It is very sad, but a young man described as "a ‘fun loving lad’ who lived life to the full and loved travelling and work" and clearly thought that seatbelts were for wimps, was highly likely to have been travelling at a fair bit more than the speed limit.
can not believe this…even lorry driver did not do clever thing, car driver clearly wasnt paying atention to driving and failed to stop! Side markers? What about his own lights■■? If he was looking at the road he would have been able to stop…or at least slow down and survived.
Hope lorry driver win apeal!