You wont believe what vosa did to me. Advice

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Hello. I’ve been an LGV driver for over 12 years, and never has points on my licence, until last night.

I was driving a double decker. 2am last night, I entered the Dartford tunnel crossing from Junction 1a. I have done this route many times over the years, and having a double decker I need to move over to the right tunnel, which takes the high vehicles.

However, when I came down onto the M25, The right tunnel was closed, and the layout had changed, which confined me to the left tunnel. Barriers came down, and a sign instructed me to turn immediately left and so I did and as I exited the escape rd, I heard a horn. It was high agency. They pulled up beside me and told me that Vosa wants a word with me.

I parked up in the Vosa area by the M25 just before the tunnel. They checked my digi card etc… and handed it back to me.

Then this guy dropped the bomb on me. He handed me a fixed penalty notice £100.00 fine. Then he hesitated before announcing a more sinister implication.

he said your penalty is for “Fail to comply with a traffic sign” which is an endorsable offence. So you are given points of your licence.

I literally fell out of the lorry. Apparently there was a temporary sign, that I missed that instructs you to go clock wise around M25 if your lorry is over a certain height. I just came on the motor way from a206. I never saw any sign.

I protested and said a few words, didn’t swear, just said nothing more than 10 words, such as how do you sleep at night, Look at this place, its a building site, its easy to get caught in the wrong lane, I haven’t been here for months, I didn’t realise it had changed to confine my lorry to left only lane. I could lose my livelihood. Him and his collegues stood there legs apart stance with hands hands on hips and snarled at me, “if you don’t shut we will get the police down and you can lose your liberty as well”

Its extremely heavy handed, savage and cruel thing to do. They wer very quiet, I was the only lorry there, and they clearly decided to throw the kitchen sink at me.

Any advice would be appreciated.

2

If you can PROVE that there was no sign/it was obscured - with, for example, in-cab camera footage - than you could certainly challenge in a court and, with a half-way decent solicitor, win.

Outside that, I’m afraid, they’ve pretty well got you by the short and curlies and all you can do is to swear under your breath, kick the dog (metaphorically speaking, of course) and put it down to experience.

Unless others know different of course! :question: :question:

3

TAKE IT TO COURT.

4

The firm I drive for pulls deckers out of Asda at Erith, for months now you’ve been given a note with your paperwork stating that if you want to go north your to join the M25 at 1a and head south come off at 1b and then join the M25 heading north, this will give you time to get over to the right hand tunnel and also gives you an escape route if the tunnel is closed.

5

I parked up in the Vosa area by the M25 just before the tunnel. They checked my digi card etc… and handed it back to me.

Then this guy dropped the bomb on me. He handed me a fixed penalty notice £100.00 fine. Then he hesitated before announcing a more sinister implication.

he said your penalty is for “Fail to comply with a traffic sign” which is an endorsable offence. So you are given points of your licence.

I literally fell out of the lorry. Apparently there was a temporary sign, that I missed that instructs you to go clock wise around M25 if your lorry is over a certain height. I just came on the motor way from a206. I never saw any sign.

I protested and said a few words, didn’t swear, just said nothing more than 10 words, such as how do you sleep at night, Look at this place, its a building site, its easy to get caught in the wrong lane, I haven’t been here for months, I didn’t realise it had changed to confine my lorry to left only lane. I could lose my livelihood. Him and his collegues stood there legs apart stance with hands hands on hips and snarled at me, “if you don’t shut we will get the police down and you can lose your liberty as well”

Its extremely heavy handed, savage and cruel thing to do. They wer very quiet, I was the only lorry there, and they clearly decided to throw the kitchen sink at me.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Sorry, but just re-read that.

Question - was it a VOSA person who gave you the points/fine? Highways Ageny scum-bags can do neither.
According to the legislation: “HA traffic officers do not have any powers of detention; to search, issue fixed penalties or report for summons for any motoring offence” so, if the VOSA person wasn’t in the HA car, then they couldn’t have seen the offence … in which case I would have them into court so fast it would make their little eyes water!

6

Failing to comply with a traffic sign is a Police offence surely?

7

While you were obviously distressed by the whole thing I would just wait until a letter drops on the mat, if & when it does then go seek legal advice from a solicitor dealing with transport issues, you can look them up on google for a local one. Don’t bother ringing them until you get something to show them.
Conversely you could drive down one night when quiet, then “breakdown” next to the offending sign and kick it over, put it in the car, make sure it cannot be seen, and go home.

8

Seems a little bit heavy handed as you say. Takes the p|ss how you can pay so much for your licence, and all they want to do when you have it, is to take it from you again.

9

Did they have their hands tucked into their reflective ‘stab vests’ , just like real policemen. ?

10

The trouble is, if it was a temporary sign, it would’ve been taken down this morning, so you can’t prove if it wasn’t there. You’ve either got to ■■■■ it up, or opt for court to state a case. But beware the risk of more points, a bigger fine and costs. Plus the nonsical victim surcharge

11

Tonyshortstraw:
Hello. I’ve been an LGV driver for over 12 years, and never has points on my licence, until last night.

I was driving a double decker. 2am last night, I entered the Dartford tunnel crossing from Junction 1a. I have done this route many times over the years, and having a double decker I need to move over to the right tunnel, which takes the high vehicles.

However, when I came down onto the M25, The right tunnel was closed, and the layout had changed, which confined me to the left tunnel. Barriers came down, and a sign instructed me to turn immediately left and so I did and as I exited the escape rd, I heard a horn. It was high agency. They pulled up beside me and told me that Vosa wants a word with me.

I parked up in the Vosa area by the M25 just before the tunnel. They checked my digi card etc… and handed it back to me.

Then this guy dropped the bomb on me. He handed me a fixed penalty notice £100.00 fine. Then he hesitated before announcing a more sinister implication.

he said your penalty is for “Fail to comply with a traffic sign” which is an endorsable offence. So you are given points of your licence.

I literally fell out of the lorry. Apparently there was a temporary sign, that I missed that instructs you to go clock wise around M25 if your lorry is over a certain height. I just came on the motor way from a206. I never saw any sign.

I protested and said a few words, didn’t swear, just said nothing more than 10 words, such as how do you sleep at night, Look at this place, its a building site, its easy to get caught in the wrong lane, I haven’t been here for months, I didn’t realise it had changed to confine my lorry to left only lane. I could lose my livelihood. Him and his collegues stood there legs apart stance with hands hands on hips and snarled at me, “if you don’t shut we will get the police down and you can lose your liberty as well”

Its extremely heavy handed, savage and cruel thing to do. They wer very quiet, I was the only lorry there, and they clearly decided to throw the kitchen sink at me.

Any advice would be appreciated.

VOSA/DVSA have no powers to issue penalties/points for moving traffic violations, why don’t you ring them up and ask them when they started issuing them.
1 out of 10 for effort!

12

Win-Stone:
Highways Ageny scum-bags can do neither.
According to the legislation: “HA traffic officers do not have any powers of detention; to search, issue fixed penalties or report for summons for any motoring offence” so, if the VOSA person wasn’t in the HA car, then they couldn’t have seen the offence … in which case I would have them into court so fast it would make their little eyes water!

Sorry can’t help the OP out.

Nice the HA now HE scum-bags as you call them are the ones that sort out your daily ■■■■ ups to try and keep you moving.

With an angry attitude like that maybe you need to reasses if your fit to hold a licence to drive a truck which can do serious damage?

13

To make this disappear will be a mission. You will need to argue at dartfords local magistrate court that the signs were not there or not visible and make your point to cast doubt on the case brought against you. The prosecution needs to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you were in the wrong.

Pepipoo forums is the best place for you.

But for the record, you need to go to Dartford to represent yourself, you will have a huge uphill struggle, if found guilty you will be looking at a total cost of around £1500+

14

There are 2 signs one is in Bob Dunn Way the other sign is on the corner of the
slip road you drove down. None of them are temporary.

15

Id say thats more than 10 words…

how do you sleep at night, Look at this place, its a building site, its easy to get caught in the wrong lane, I haven’t been here for months, I didn’t realise it had changed to confine my lorry to left only lane. I could lose my livelihood.

16

Jumped up little terrwaaats aren’t they I bet he gritted his teeth and in a Jack Regan voice growled “you’re nicked sunshine”. :imp:

17

Tonyshortstraw:
I was driving a double decker. 2am last night, I entered the Dartford tunnel crossing from Junction 1a. I have done this route many times over the years, and having a double decker I need to move over to the right tunnel, which takes the high vehicles.

However, when I came down onto the M25, The right tunnel was closed, and the layout had changed, which confined me to the left tunnel. Barriers came down, and a sign instructed me to turn immediately left and so I did and as I exited the escape rd, I heard a horn. It was high agency. They pulled up beside me and told me that Vosa wants a word with me.

I parked up in the Vosa area by the M25 just before the tunnel. They checked my digi card etc… and handed it back to me.

Then this guy dropped the bomb on me. He handed me a fixed penalty notice £100.00 fine. Then he hesitated before announcing a more sinister implication.

he said your penalty is for “Fail to comply with a traffic sign” which is an endorsable offence. So you are given points of your licence.

I literally fell out of the lorry. Apparently there was a temporary sign, that I missed that instructs you to go clock wise around M25 if your lorry is over a certain height. I just came on the motor way from a206. I never saw any sign.

It’s not a temporary sign. As mentioned in the information leaflet on the changes at Dartford, there is now a permanent 4.8m height restriction on vehicles entering the A282 at Junction 1a, because the new free flow layout doesn’t give a safe opportunity to move over into the right hand lanes for the right tunnel.

Others may be able to give you the precise location of the signs, though you have already had some guidance from fingermissing (on Bob Dunn Way and on the entrance to the slip road to join the A282 - you can’t check on Google Street View as it shows the old toll booth layout). The fact is that at some point you have passed two signs notifying you of a 4.8m height restriction sign whilst being over that height. Enforcement is presumably via the cameras in the new overheight vehicle detection system, so it will not matter what the enforcement powers of the officer(s) who spoke to you were.

18

Nothing will happen, no points will magically appear. Put it down to experience and move on o/p.

19

Michael Douglas:
Seems a little bit heavy handed as you say. Takes the p|ss how you can pay so much for your licence, and all they want to do when you have it, is to take it from you again.

Takes the ■■■■ that a “professional” driver with many hundreds of thousands of miles experience still can’t see two ruddy great big reflective signs at the side of the road. Been millions of miles since my last points and those were gained entirely voluntary as nobody else was in control of my car.

20

Conor:

Michael Douglas:
Seems a little bit heavy handed as you say. Takes the p|ss how you can pay so much for your licence, and all they want to do when you have it, is to take it from you again.

Takes the ■■■■ that a “professional” driver with many hundreds of thousands of miles experience still can’t see two ruddy great big reflective signs at the side of the road. Been millions of miles since my last points and those were gained entirely voluntary as nobody else was in control of my car.

Conor, your my hero! :sunglasses: :sunglasses: :sunglasses: