If agencies can attract HGV drivers when they are not even in the transport industry - but the recruitment industry, why can’t you?
Many, many drivers are ‘forced’ down the agency route as they have very little option as most companies simply don’t advertise positions available. Agencies don’t run vehicles, know next to nothing on hours / regulations and have v. little interest in them anyway, have scammed and ripped-off drivers for years, yet many have no option but to do deal with these scum. You could change this, ‘tomorrow’, if you wanted to.
So, why do actively choose to go via a middle-man with the extra expense involved - week in week out in many cases as drivers often end up in the same place for months, sometimes even years on end, rather than advertise a real job that you can fill all on your own? Not difficult to do, is it?
If agencies can supply drivers en masse, pretty much on demand no less, does that not tell you there is no driver shortage? You may have a shortage, but I suspect there must be other reasons for that given the above. Could one of those be a decent wage without having to work 60+ hours a week? Many will do the long hours, but don’t have the incentive if there is no reward for doing so, for example, no overtime premium. Paid parking, some do some don’t, my company didn’t when I was a tramper many years ago, want proper facilities, shower and a decent meal at an MSA / truckstop? Sorry mate that’s what your night-out money is for. Ummm, no it’s not…
My take on both of those questions, is the short term nature of the business and government. Last time my work out to tender and I kept the work, we sat down at a meeting and they said the contract is for one year. What use is that when a trailer alone costs 55k. Contracts are often for three years with a two year break option. Whilst you are restricted in that way, your eye is never on the long term. That goes for kit and for staff.
The other thing with agencies, is that it takes away any potential employment issues, there’s no contract between driver and operator so it makes it easier from an HR angle.
I don’t use any agency drivers myself, it does mean you have to work harder at maintaining a good relationship, on the other hand it means you don’t sit and worry that you’ve let a Muppet loose with your valuable truck and load.
Operators you may not know it, or want to know it, but among your driving staff there are some dedicated and competent people who actually want the business to succeed and stay profitable because it benefits everyone.
So why in so many companies is there an attitude that we, the suits, know everything and any suggestion made by a mere driver is to be totally ignored at best and at worse thoroughly ridiculed, often the suggestions are not to make the particular driver’s life easier, such as re-arranging a schedule so driver A doesn’t a have second run, often the suggestions make good economic and operational sense, but in the vast majority of companies unless a suit comes up with it, it’s dead in the water…this attitude is worse where managers are breeding like rabbits.
My take on both of those questions, is the short term nature of the business and government. Last time my work out to tender and I kept the work, we sat down at a meeting and they said the contract is for one year. What use is that when a trailer alone costs 55k. Contracts are often for three years with a two year break option. Whilst you are restricted in that way, your eye is never on the long term. That goes for kit and for staff.
The other thing with agencies, is that it takes away any potential employment issues, there’s no contract between driver and operator so it makes it easier from an HR angle.
I don’t use any agency drivers myself, it does mean you have to work harder at maintaining a good relationship, on the other hand it means you don’t sit and worry that you’ve let a Muppet loose with your valuable truck and load.
You can have drivers on fixed term contracts, advertise for Ltd. Co. drivers, etc. Just about every driver I know is Ltd., but still has to work via an agency, or is tied in to an agency’s umbrella scheme, where you have, for example - rolled up holiday pay (holiday pay included in your hourly rate) pay not only yours but also Employers NIC, overhead fees, etc. Why not hire Ltd. Co. drivers direct? They invoice you at the agreed rate and you pay them as you would any other supplier. Can be done.
I don’t know if you are asking me London, I can’t answer that. As I say, I don’t use agency or self-employed, all my drivers are fully employed by me.
i can shed light on some things from an Operators perspective, such as the nature of short-term contracts leading to short term thinking in general, but why some Companies do what they do is a mystery to me as well. Juddian asks why the suits don’t talk to drivers or take on board suggestions from them, can’t answer that either. Small firms where office staff have driven for a living, tend to be a world apart from the Wincantons of this world. We have complicated moves to do, something new comes along, I plan it out and then run it by some passing drivers to see what they think - works well for me.
So it’s the last day to get a question in.
Ask them why they think it’s fair and usually the norm in Transport, that a driver has to work an extra 2 hours in comparison to many, (if not most) other industries, before he goes on to an overtime rate. (ie 10 hours as opposed to 8 )
Then ask them after working those extra 2 hours on the lower rate, why are you further penalised and underpaid, by only getting something like time plus a quid or some crap (or in my case the derisory… time plus a few pence that I am on due to the basic rate going up on two meagre pay rises but overtime rate not moving) rather than time and a half as it always was once over.
If you get the standard official line reply ie. ‘‘It’s all to do with keeping competitive in terms of haulage rates’’
Then…Ask them why it should be always the driver who is expected to subsidise the competition in haulage by taking a lower wage, why not get rid of incompetent non job types instead to achieve this.
I know fairness is not their first priority to drivers in most cases, but ask them if in real terms, they actually DO think this pay structure is ‘fair’ to their drivers.
Also ask them why the majority of them can not see that a fairly treated looked after driver, is a much more willing and productive driver, and put to them that these type of drivers as opposed to the dross, would be attracted more to leave the bad paying unfair firms,…to work for THEM
…I would love to hear their response to that, especially from my own co.
albion:
I don’t know if you are asking me London, I can’t answer that. As I say, I don’t use agency or self-employed, all my drivers are fully employed by me.
i can shed light on some things from an Operators perspective, such as the nature of short-term contracts leading to short term thinking in general, but why some Companies do what they do is a mystery to me as well. Juddian asks why the suits don’t talk to drivers or take on board suggestions from them, can’t answer that either. Small firms where office staff have driven for a living, tend to be a world apart from the Wincantons of this world. We have complicated moves to do, something new comes along, I plan it out and then run it by some passing drivers to see what they think - works well for me.
Hi Albion,
No not directed to you, more of just a general response to your comment. If operators say there is a driver shortage, then agencies wouldn’t be able to supply drivers the vast majority of time due to the ‘shortage.’ But this is just not the case, they call an agency, send a driver please, driver shows up. Sure, some companies / operators will be short, but they really must be honest and ask themselves why that is the case.
Thanks for your contributions, guys. Five questions will now be chosen from both this thread and those suggestions which came in by other means - I’ll post them here when they’ve been sent on to the operators involved. (And no, I don’t yet have the names of those so I can’t share them - sorry!) Watch this space…!
Lucy: Thanks for your contributions, guys. Five questions will now be chosen from both this thread and those suggestions which came in by other means - I’ll post them here when they’ve been sent on to the operators involved. (And no, I don’t yet have the names of those so I can’t share them - sorry!) Watch this space…!
Ok, but let’s hope that you are asking these questions to the ‘culprit’ operators that may find some of these questions uncomfortable and a bit ‘close to home’ rather than the better end of operators who will only be too glad to answer due to the fact these driver grivances do not apply to them.
Hope you have chosen the right ones. otherwise it will be pointless by ending up as an indulgent free advert for the good operators.
Lucy: Thanks for your contributions, guys. Five questions will now be chosen from both this thread and those suggestions which came in by other means - I’ll post them here when they’ve been sent on to the operators involved. (And no, I don’t yet have the names of those so I can’t share them - sorry!) Watch this space…!
Ok, but let’s hope that you are asking these questions to the ‘culprit’ operators that may find some of these questions uncomfortable and a bit ‘close to home’ rather than the better end of operators who will only be too glad to answer due to the fact these driver grivances do not apply to them.
Hope you have chosen the right ones. otherwise it will be pointless by ending up as an indulgent free advert for the good operators.
That’s a good point raised. You need to aim the right questions at the right operators. No point aiming my question about reinvestment and poverty spec kit at a small haulier who probably does reinvest. Likewise it’s pointless aiming a driver shortage question at a wincanton for arguments sake, as they will just say they use agencies due to volume fluctuations. Much better to ask a shortage question to a small firm who may pay poor, and save the lack of reinvestment question for the blue chip bean counters. Get them sweating
Despite the "driver shortage "
They still only want to pay national minimum wage in some areas, & still want you to do multi drop, drive a fork lift , load & tip yourself, & must have I.T / computer skills etc, etc , & as the list gets longer you find you are expected to be not just the driver , but also to be warehouse scanner, loader, tipper etc, & to be office worker with labels, computer skills etc, & all for £7.50 per hour . No wonder some places can’t get drivers!!.
Why do operators think employing eastern European drivers is a good thing, it puts across a message to any decent driver to not want to be employed by such a company. It says to most that you do not value UK drivers and also helps to keep the wages down by considering us all as 10 a penny. There is no driver shortage other than a good driver shortage, a shortage of enthusiastic drivers, a shortage of drivers who feel valued. This is without the bad attitude of arrogant office staff who demoralise drivers on a daily basis with an attitude of I am greater than thou. Don’t give new drivers a chance and insist on drivers having 2 years experience in order to recruit the cheaper eastern european drivers as an excuse, then the vicious circle starts over again.
that I am on due to the basic rate going up on two meagre pay rises but overtime rate not moving) rather than time and a half as it always was once over.
