Some RO/BG havent quite got the hang of it yet. 
Is a £900 fine enough?
Two trucks from same company, it’s gotta be the company doing the “manipulation”. Not drivers. They’re doing it for profit, enabling rate cutting.
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Franglais:
Is a £900 fine enough?
Two trucks from same company, it’s gotta be the company doing the “manipulation”. Not drivers. They’re doing it for profit, enabling rate cutting.Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
No it’s not , the fine should be 5k or a percentage of goods value on invoice that will stop it and the greedy customers as well
One of my drivers said Sunday on a five live programme, DVSA bloke on saying that they more or less only stop foreigners now, but that legally there is little they can do that deters the operators.
Triple the fines for both operator and driver unless it can be proven one party didn’t know, and squash the truck. That would concentrate the minds.
albion:
One of my drivers said Sunday on a five live programme, DVSA bloke on saying that they more or less only stop foreigners now, but that legally there is little they can do that deters the operators.Triple the fines for both operator and driver unless it can be proven one party didn’t know, and squash the truck. That would concentrate the minds.
I can’t see how the driver doesn’t know that the truck has been manipulated. Surely has noticed that the tacho stays on rest permanently when the vehicle isn’t driving, or if his boss says to him that you have to drive with switch x turned on/off.
Much bigger fines are needed then they may realise it’s not worth there while running bent. If drivers are given bigger fines, then like drivers have over here, they will stop driving for firms that run bent.
But then again, it is a numbers game. Operators will always run the risk of running a bent fleet as they weigh it up against the probability of getting pulled.
madmackem:
But then again, it is a numbers game. Operators will always run the risk of running a bent fleet as they weigh it up against the probability of getting pulled.
^
This
Its purely a numbers/gambling game. With an international fleet crossing many borders its highly unlikely the whole fleet will be subject to scrutiny, its just going to be the odd pull here and there and operators will gladly pay any fine knowing full well its only a tiny % dent in profits.
With the latest encrypted software its 100% impossible for dvsa to detect but many PL/RO/BG are still using tag on hardware which is easily detectable simply by doing a current drain test on the tacho…
AndrewG:
madmackem:
But then again, it is a numbers game. Operators will always run the risk of running a bent fleet as they weigh it up against the probability of getting pulled.^
This
Its purely a numbers/gambling game. With an international fleet crossing many borders its highly unlikely the whole fleet will be subject to scrutiny, its just going to be the odd pull here and there and operators will gladly pay any fine knowing full well its only a tiny % dent in profits.
With the latest encrypted software its 100% impossible for dvsa to detect but many PL/RO/BG are still using tag on hardware which is easily detectable simply by doing a current drain test on the tacho…
100% undetectable?
Those embedded systems may not have been detected yet, but they may be soon.
The drugs used by Olympic cheats in the past, were invisible then, but not now.
And what about old tech? If the authorities are suspicious of a truck or operator, simoly watch them-
A truck seen in say Madrid Monday, Paris Tues, Madrid Weds, and showing 25 hours driving across 2000 km has some explaning to do.
No need to discover which bit of software was used.
IMHO opinion any truck with a tacho defeating device should be confiscated. Then sold at auction. All funds going to the gov as well as fining companies.
Make the losses outweigh the losses.
As Albion says
“Concentrate their minds” !
Franglais:
AndrewG:
madmackem:
But then again, it is a numbers game. Operators will always run the risk of running a bent fleet as they weigh it up against the probability of getting pulled.^
This
Its purely a numbers/gambling game. With an international fleet crossing many borders its highly unlikely the whole fleet will be subject to scrutiny, its just going to be the odd pull here and there and operators will gladly pay any fine knowing full well its only a tiny % dent in profits.
With the latest encrypted software its 100% impossible for dvsa to detect but many PL/RO/BG are still using tag on hardware which is easily detectable simply by doing a current drain test on the tacho…100% undetectable?
Yes, absolutely impossible to detect. Embedded software like Tc/Drax with encryption incorporating 9 numbers and a lower and upper case alphabet programme have literally millions of combinations, obviously have no power drain and show dvsa’s equipment to be out of the ark…
AndrewG:
Franglais:
AndrewG:
madmackem:
But then again, it is a numbers game. Operators will always run the risk of running a bent fleet as they weigh it up against the probability of getting pulled.^
This
Its purely a numbers/gambling game. With an international fleet crossing many borders its highly unlikely the whole fleet will be subject to scrutiny, its just going to be the odd pull here and there and operators will gladly pay any fine knowing full well its only a tiny % dent in profits.
With the latest encrypted software its 100% impossible for dvsa to detect but many PL/RO/BG are still using tag on hardware which is easily detectable simply by doing a current drain test on the tacho…100% undetectable?
Yes, absolutely impossible to detect. Embedded software like Tc/Drax with encryption incorporating 9 numbers and a lower and upper case alphabet programme have literally millions of combinations, obviously have no power drain and show dvsa’s equipment to be out of the ark…
I think you’re missing my point.
It doesn’t matter how clever this software is. Going back to my example-
Madrid/Paris/Madrid is 2,500 km. Any truck recording just 2,000km on that run is bent. Simple as that.
If you say a roadside or workshop check won’t detect it. I’ll believe you.
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madmackem:
albion:
One of my drivers said Sunday on a five live programme, DVSA bloke on saying that they more or less only stop foreigners now, but that legally there is little they can do that deters the operators.Triple the fines for both operator and driver unless it can be proven one party didn’t know, and squash the truck. That would concentrate the minds.
I can’t see how the driver doesn’t know that the truck has been manipulated. Surely has noticed that the tacho stays on rest permanently when the vehicle isn’t driving, or if his boss says to him that you have to drive with switch x turned on/off.
Much bigger fines are needed then they may realise it’s not worth there while running bent. If drivers are given bigger fines, then like drivers have over here, they will stop driving for firms that run bent.
But then again, it is a numbers game. Operators will always run the risk of running a bent fleet as they weigh it up against the probability of getting pulled.
Neither do I, but theoretically if you ran for a legit - stop laughing there - Romanian company and your boss said go and give my mate a helping hand to deliver as his driver has been taken to hospital… Highly unlikely, but theoretically possible. What I was meaning is that it shouldn’t be automatically assumed the driver is guilty; should take al of five minutes to establish guilt though.
I mentioned on here before that a “Taliban” told me there’s a factory near Budapest and all they manufacture are “black boxes” to interfer with workings of digi tachos!!!
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They can fraud the tacho but forget about the paper trail.
For example cctv at the port of entry and exit of the UK.
Ferry and channel tunnel bookings.
Bank card use at retail outlets, fuelling up evidence, delivery places cctv and proof of delivery times.
If all of above does not correspond to your tacho, explain that.
Anpr to add.
The boss and customers may make profit if run bent, but the driver is risk to all on the road, with fatigue and no extra pay.
toby1234abc:
They can fraud the tacho but forget about the paper trail.
For example cctv at the port of entry and exit of the UK.
Ferry and channel tunnel bookings.
Bank card use at retail outlets, fuelling up evidence, delivery places cctv and proof of delivery times.
If all of above does not correspond to your tacho, explain that.
Anpr to add.
The boss and customers may make profit if run bent, but the driver is risk to all on the road, with fatigue and no extra pay.
Yeah not quite, alot of EE lads are on trip money.
Paper trail in this highly regulated industry should quite easily to follow.
As for the £900 no its not enough. Im all for fining people who go over there driving hours, not enough breaks etc etc.
But companies like this, who manipulate vehicles, fraud records. There vehicles should be confiscated and chopped in half and sold for parts. Then they might think twice about doing it. £900 is nothing.
FACT:
I know a lad who’s been driving past 2yrs and doesn’t have a Driver CPC card and hasn’t to date taken a single module.
Has been stopped by VOSA/Police reg and was even the innocent party in a major road crash yet continues to drive truck!!!
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It makes you wonder just how bent these companies are in EE, must be terrible for the drivers tbh.
Franglais:
Madrid/Paris/Madrid is 2,500 km. Any truck recording just 2,000km on that run is bent. Simple as that.
If you say a roadside or workshop check won’t detect it. I’ll believe you.Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
I agree with you Franglais, distance / time wont match up but crossing borders and the ‘paper trail’ mentioned on this thread would be very hard to put together, it would involve many different authorities collaboration from various countries, this is the very reason many euro hauliers take the chance, the risk of being caught is very slim. The embedded encrypted software also allows the limiter to be raised but still only record 90kph , the speedo is accurate to 90kph but just doesnt read any higher…
What about when the new tachos come and every border crossing has to be recorded.
Concretejim:
What about when the new tachos come and every border crossing has to be recorded.
Yep.
Plus has there been talk about about remotely interrogated tachos? As Mr Plod tags on your tail he can see what your tacho is recording. If you’re running at 96km and he sees your tacho is showing 85 or a break. . . .
That assumes of course your truck doesn’t have a cloaking device, and is visible to him.
It’s a game of leapfrog, always has been. Every time someone finds a way to beat technology the technology will be updated etc etc.
To stop attempts to defeat tachos needs two things.
The person doing the fiddling needs to believe that there’s a good chance they will be caught.
The penalty needs to be high enough to endure it doesn’t pay.
In an earlier post I was all in favour of big penalties and confiscation of the truck. But that’s a waste of time if no one believes they’ll ever get caught.
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