ROG:
Why are drivers concerned about WTD when the authorities are not
Because it’s another excuse for employers to persecute us and withhold any bonus.
LazyDriver:
ROG:
Why are drivers concerned about WTD when the authorities are notBecause it’s another excuse for employers to persecute us and withhold any bonus.
But it is the responsibility of the employers to keep track not the driver 
ROG:
LazyDriver:
ROG:
Why are drivers concerned about WTD when the authorities are notBecause it’s another excuse for employers to persecute us and withhold any bonus.
But it is the responsibility of the employers to keep track not the driver
You keep banging this drum Rog, and in the interests of clarity I’ll say that I generally speaking agree that the whole WTD thing is a crock of horsepoo that shouldn’t be necessary if tacho rules are followed. I also agree that it’s the employers responsibility not the employees to keep track of the WTD.
However, and it’s a big however, how do you think a driver would fare stood in the dock accused of falling asleep at the wheel and killing a family in their car when his tacho records are spotless EXCEPT for the fact that he’d exceeded his WTD hours? They’d throw the key away, and that’s the reason that drivers should monitor their hours.
ROG:
LazyDriver:
ROG:
Why are drivers concerned about WTD when the authorities are notBecause it’s another excuse for employers to persecute us and withhold any bonus.
But it is the responsibility of the employers to keep track not the driver
And they would argue they are, by giving autonomy to the driver whilst encouraging said driver to comply by means of a bonus.
What you suggest has never happened in all the years that WTD has been here
the maoster:
I’ll say that I generally speaking agree that the whole WTD thing is a crock of horsepoo that shouldn’t be necessary if tacho rules are followed.
This is so far from true. In a ‘proper’ driving job, as critiqued by CF it would be so, but a very large proportion of jobs under the ‘HGV’ umbrella have very little actual driving. And where POA is not used (one place I worked banned it), it’s easy to fall foul of wtd whilst staying tacho legal.
ROG:
What you suggest has never happened in all the years that WTD has been here
The space station hasn’t crashed to Earth but it’s possible. Nobody has been prosecuted under WTD rules but it’s possible. I know which scenario is more likely too.
Standing in the dock and saying “well a bloke off the internet told me not to bother” isn’t going to cut the mustard.
You should out of interest Rog produce a poll to see how many agree with your stance as opposed to mine 
LazyDriver:
And where POA is not used (one place I worked banned it), it’s easy to fall foul of wtd whilst staying tacho legal.
I agree, if you’re a mathematical pygmy or the type who struggles to fasten their own shoelaces perhaps it is.
I’ve never used POA in my life and have managed never to get a WTD infringement whilst also managing to fasten my own laces too.
the maoster:
LazyDriver:
And where POA is not used (one place I worked banned it), it’s easy to fall foul of wtd whilst staying tacho legal.I agree, if you’re a mathematical pygmy or the type who struggles to fasten their own shoelaces perhaps it is.
I’ve never used POA in my life and have managed never to get a WTD infringement whilst also managing to fasten my own laces too.
Neither an adding dwarf or in need of slip-ons, but the point of order was - will following tacho rules ‘in general’ cover wtd rules? And as stated, in many, many advertised HGV jobs, no it won’t.
I don’t want to be a ■■■■ but
Estoic:
The statutory minimum holiday for a mobile worker is 5.6 weeks. To calculate this into days you have to multiply 5.6 by the number of days you work.So for a five day week man this is 5.6 x 5 = 28 This means that for a driver on this shift pattern only days above 28 can be zeroed and used to reduce your working time average. A lot of people think it’s 20 days, (4weeks) but regulation 13 of WTD for mobile workers was amended by the British government to add an extra 1.6 weeks of holiday and is now written in the statute books.
The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005 Regulation 4 (Working Time)
(6) In paragraph (5), “excluded hours” means hours comprised in—
(a)any period of annual leave taken by the mobile worker in exercise of entitlement under regulation 13 of the Working Time Regulations 1998 F11;
(b)any period of sick leave taken by the mobile worker;
(c)any period of maternity, paternity, adoption or parental leave taken by the mobile worker;
(I’m not sure why they are called excluded hours when they are included in the working time calculation??)
The Working Time Regulations 1998 Regulation 13 (Entitlement to annual leave)
13.—[F1(1) Subject to paragraph (5), a worker is entitled to four weeks’ annual leave in each leave year.]
(5) Where the date on which a worker’s employment begins is later than the date on which (by virtue of a relevant agreement) his first leave year begins, the leave to which he is entitled in that leave year is a proportion of the period applicable under [F4paragraph (1)] equal to the proportion of that leave year remaining on the date on which his employment begins.
So 4 weeks leave for a full year for a full time(?) worker is “excluded hours”.
Then additionally, in 13A, The Working Time Regulations 1998 Regulation 13A (Entitlement to additional annual leave)
(2) The period of additional leave to which a worker is entitled under paragraph (1) is—
(e)in any leave year beginning on or after 1st April 2009, 1.6 weeks.
Nowhere that I have read does it say leave entitlements from 13A are “excluded hours”.
(FYI, I don’t average anywhere near 48 hours.)
Holiday hours are only used to calculate the average and are not use towards your weekly total
I think my boss could be in a spot of bother if anyone looks at our WTD records, according to his records we’re only doing a 45 hour week, even though some of us are doing well over 55+ hours. Although I keep an eye on what I’m doing, at the age i am now I hate doing the overtime, plus I don’t really need it.