Hello i am after some help again please.
Got into an argument at work today about me not being able to do any ot as my average week is 48 hours(in line with wtd).This is driving ,breaks,other work all in.I do four on four off 12 hour days.But under tacho rules I can drive 90 hours max over two weeks by itself 56 max in one week-they dont add up.45 hours driving alone for one week would leave me only 3 hours for eveything else in the week 
How is this in line with wtd 
Cheers boys and girls
breaks are not counted for starters 
have,nt worked a 4 on 4 off shift for years but thinking about it some weeks you would only be working 3 shifts ( 36 hours minus your breaks) thats off mon,tues, wed, thurs and working fri,sat,sun. and monday( which counts for the following week)
new week starts mon, so you would be working mon,tues, wed,thurs (48 minus your breaks)
then off friday,sat, sun,monday.
work tues,wed, thurs, friday ( again 48 again minus breaks)
so going by this lots of working weeks you are only working 3 shifts and you will never do 5 days in a week on this shift pattern.
shift example
mon tues weds thurs fri sat sun
o o o o w w w
w o o o o w w
w w o o o o w
w w w o o o o
w w w w o o o
so there are plenty of weeks where you are only doing 3 shifts which count towards your working week. so plenty of scope for overtime.
so 48 is the max average per week over however many weeks your company works on for its average.
could be 2 x 26 weeks or 17 weeks,17 weeks and 18 weeks which both equal 52 weeks
but you can work 60 in a week if you want the ot. 
and i have,nt counted poa (periods of availability ) cause i dont do it. and im guessing you dont either.
you can work 3 15 hour shifts and 2 13 hour in a week its the litle thing called poa it dosent count as working, driving, its our achilles heel cos bosses no the rules and try and get you to work more than you really want to especially if your on a salary,
if they did away with it we would all be on a better rate and working, driving normal hours like the rest of the world an easier life, but we keep gettin stiffed yes people the world hates us!!! 
Cheers for the help.I was led to believe that my working week started on mon and was arguing your point dave to get around it but was told that in accordance to wtd me 4 on start was the start of me wortking week.Me tm agreed with me but his boss was arguing the other?Dont think he wants me to do any ot 
nobby003:
Cheers for the help.I was led to believe that my working week started on mon and was arguing your point dave to get around it but was told that in accordance to wtd me 4 on start was the start of me wortking week.Me tm agreed with me but his boss was arguing the other?Dont think he wants me to do any ot
whats it like working 4 on 4 off nevr done it b4 but sounds like you have a life at least, do you get paid for days off? but saying that carnt be that good if your after overtime
THE MATHS
Using the above shift example with 12 hours of actual WORK (not POA or breaks) each shift
M T W T F S S
o o o o w w w = 36 hours
w o o o o w w = 36 hours
w w o o o o w = 36 hours
w w w o o o o = 36 hours
w w w w o o o = 48 hours
o w w w w o o = 48 hours
o o w w w w o = 48 hours
o o o w w w w = 48 hours
repeat from top
Total of actual WORK hours = 336 hours divided by 8 weeks = 42 hours average per week
You could legally do another 4 shifts in those 8 weeks for the RT(WTD)R as long as the tacho rules are abided by 
ROG:
THE MATHSUsing the above shift example with 12 hours of actual WORK (not POA or breaks) each shift
M T W T F S S
o o o o w w w = 36 hours
w o o o o w w = 36 hours
w w o o o o w = 36 hours
w w w o o o o = 36 hours
w w w w o o o = 48 hours
o w w w w o o = 48 hours
o o w w w w o = 48 hours
o o o w w w w = 48 hours
repeat from topTotal of actual WORK hours = 336 hours divided by 8 weeks = 42 hours average per week
You could legally do another 4 shifts in those 8 weeks for the RT(WTD)R as long as the tacho rules are abided by
i was going to that rog but then i thought nah stuff it.lol.
another point i was going to mention was holidays but that will vary from company to company ( i think).
on my shift pattern if im down to work mon to fri and book it as holidays i get 48 hours work added to my average weekly hours. however if i only book 1 day off then i only get credited with 8 hours towards my average.
it does,nt matter to me as im saliered but it could matter to an hourly paid person in the hunt for overtime.
Holidays weeks are the same week as defined in the EU regs - Mon 0000 to Sun 2400
In the 8 week senario of 4 on 4 off there are 4 weeks of 36 hours and 4 weeks of 48 hours.
If either a week of 36 or 48 hours is taken as holiday then they both count as 48 for the RT(WTD)R average
BUT as the RT(WTD)R average does not seemed to be checked by anyone and if it was then the employer gets it in the neck not the employee - WHO CARES !!
Good work again and thanks for the help,seems i was right in the first place haha.4 on 4 of is ok for me at the moment while me youngest is still at home and the wife is working evenings but dont like working weekends when its sunny and eveyone is down the pub.But then you do get a lot of time off but sometimes everyone else is at work or school-swings and rounabouts
dustylfc:
you can work 3 15 hour shifts and 2 13 hour in a week
You seem a little confused. You can do more than 3 15 hour shifts in a week, depending when your weekly rest falls. You can do 3 15 hour shifts between weekly rest periods. You can also do more than 3 between weekly rest periods by utilising teh split daily rest option.
Also, along with the 3 15 hour shifts you could do 3 13 hour shifts, not 2.
ROG:
You could legally do another 4 shifts in those 8 weeks for the RT(WTD)R as long as the tacho rules are abided by
Why only 4?
He could do at least 14, and possibly more depending how much break and POA is in each shift he does.
He doesn’t have to average 48 hours over those 8 weeks, he could do the maximum 60 hours in each of those weeks as long as by teh end of the reference period, 17 or 26 weeks he has averaged 48 hours.
He could easily fit another 2 shifts in each of the 3 shift weeks and 1 in the 4 shift weeks, bringing shift time for each week to 60 hours so still well below the maximum when breaks are accounted for, and he would still meet the weekly rest requirements for the EU Driver’s Hours regs. That would be an additional 12 shifts and even just taking the minimum 45 minutes of break for each shift he would have enough hours for another 2x 12 hour shifts and he still wouldn’t be at the maximum possible work for 8 weeks of 480 hours.
ROG:
You could legally do another 4 shifts in those 8 weeks for the RT(WTD)R as long as the tacho rules are abided by
Coffeeholic:
Why only 4?He could do at least 14, and possibly more depending how much break and POA is in each shift he does.
I could have put ‘at least’ but I was referring to THOSE 8 weeks and keeping the average to 48 for them 
ROG:
Coffeeholic:
ROG:
You could legally do another 4 shifts in those 8 weeks for the RT(WTD)R as long as the tacho rules are abided byWhy only 4?
He could do at least 14, and possibly more depending how much break and POA is in each shift he does.
I could have put ‘at least’ but I was referring to
ROG:
Using the above shift example with 12 hours of actual WORK (not POA or breaks) each shiftand keeping the average in THOSE 8 weeks to 48
But you don’t need to keep the average for those 8 weeks to 48, so saying he could legally do another 4 shifts is misleading and could lead to him turning down work opportunities.
I should have made that clear but didn’t - I take your point.