i have heard different rules and regs and need something clearing up if you fellas can help , forget about the driving hours ,this is about the other breaks needed ,i know u hav to have a 30 min break after 6 hrs work ,but i heard after 9 hrs this must total 45 mins,hich can be taken in 15 min sessions,any ideas any1 ■■?
tat:
i have heard different rules and regs and need something clearing up if you fellas can help , forget about the driving hours ,this is about the other breaks needed ,i know u hav to have a 30 min break after 6 hrs work ,but i heard after 9 hrs this must total 45 mins,hich can be taken in 15 min sessions,any ideas any1 ■■?
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The break after 6 hours only needs to be 15 minutes not 30.
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If you will total between 6 and 9 hours work during your shift then you must have breaks totalling 30 minutes, either one lump or 2 x15 minutes.
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If you will total more than 9 hours of work then you will require 45 minutes of break, this can be in one lump or in 2 or 3 segments with no segment less than 15 minutes.
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At no point during the shift must you accumulate 6 hours work without a break. So if you started at 06:00 and took a 15 minute break after 6 hours work at 12:00, then did another 6 hours work you would need a second break of at least 15 minutes at 18:15. If you only took 15 minutes at that point another 15 minutes would be required before the end of the shift as you have accumulated more than 9 hours work so breaks totalling 45 minutes are required.
Note it is the amount of work which triggers the breaks and not the length of the shift. For example you could have a shift from 06:00 - 17:00, 11 hours, but only require 30 minutes of break for the WTD if those 30 minutes and POA meant you did not exceed 9 hours of work.
Obviously the tacho rules will also dictate when breaks must be taken.
I noticed you said ‘other breaks needed’ and just wanted to point out you don’t need to take tacho and WTD breaks separately. A tacho break will also qualify as a WTD break and a WTD break may qualify for a tacho break as long as the tacho requirement for 15 minutes followed by 30 is met.
Welcome tat
FAQ forum for info on Posting Pics, Driver CPC and much more…
And don’t do what I did, think that both no2 and no3 go together 
- they don’t - it is either number 2 OR number 3 in the reply coffeeholic gave.
thanks for that fellas ,and thanks for the welcome rog
Hi coffeeholic
you wrote this in you above post
- At no point during the shift must you accumulate 6 hours work without a break. So if you started at 06:00 and took a 15 minute break after 6 hours work at 12:00 then did another 6 hours work you would need a second break of at least 15 minutes at 18:15 If you only took 15 minutes at that point another 15 minutes would be required before the end of the shift as you have accumulated more than 9 hours work so breaks totalling 45 minutes are required.
the bit in red is wrong
if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a
break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes
as you have worked for six hour you must take a brake of 30 Min’s which can be split in two 15 Min’s periods
Note it is the amount of work which triggers the breaks
in that post you worked 6 hours and only took 15 Min’s and then worked for another 6 hours so in theory you have only had a brake of 15 Min’s in 12 hours working which in fact you should of had 30 Min’s and take a 15 Min’s before the end of your shift
4 hours other work + 2 hours driving triggers a break (30 minutes in this case) under the
Regulations. Another 3 hours work (9 hours in total) and another 15 minute break is needed
under the Regulations. There is no requirement to take any breaks under the European drivers’
hours rules as total driving time has not reached 4 ½ hours. Total daily break time = 45
minutes.
this is the point i have been trying to get across if you have work for 6 hours without taking a brake you most have 30 min between 6-9 hours and if you go over 9 hours you must take another 15 Min’s before the end of you shift.
looking at you post would in fact require 60 Min’s of brakes cos you worked two 6 hour periods
but the reg only require 45 Min’s in total
mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break
of at least 30 Min’s
delboytwo:
Hi coffeeholicyou wrote this in you above post
- At no point during the shift must you accumulate 6 hours work without a break. So if you started at 06:00 and took a 15 minute break after 6 hours work at 12:00 then did another 6 hours work you would need a second break of at least 15 minutes at 18:15 If you only took 15 minutes at that point another 15 minutes would be required before the end of the shift as you have accumulated more than 9 hours work so breaks totalling 45 minutes are required.
the bit in red is wrong
No it’s not. We had this discussion in another thread the other day. This has been discussed on here countless times since the WTD came in and it all stems from the early days when people didn’t read the regulations correctly and just said 30 minutes at 6 hours, when clearly this is not the case. It was not helped by lazy trainers, who didn’t bother reading the rules for themselves, repeating this misconception.
On THIS thread the other day you even posted a quote which confirms only 15 minutes is required at 6 hours, did you not read it before you posted it?
This is the quote you posted.
6 hours consecutive other work triggers the break requirement under the Regulations. A break
of at least 15 minutes must be taken. Mobile worker A then does another 2 hours other work,
takes a break for 15 minutes and then completes another hour of other work before ending
their shift. This complies with the Regulations as their working time is interrupted by breaks
totalling 30 minutes
Remember as far as the WTD goes there are two kinds of time, non working time - breaks and POA, and working time - driving and other work. It doesn’t matter how the 6 hours of work is made up as far as the WTD goes and as it clearly states in that example 6 hours work requires a 15 minute break. In that example a second 15 minutes was taken between 6 and 9 hours simply because the working time in that 9.5 hour shift did not exceed 9 hours.
delboytwo:
if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a
break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes
Correct, but in the example I gave above the working time totals more than 9 hours so this bit doesn’t apply. That quote is for a complete shift were the working time is between 6 and 9 hours. You need to read very carefully and it appears you are ignoring one very important word in that quote. The word is TOTAL. Every word counts in the regulations and has to be taken into consideration. If your work totals between 6 and 9 hours then that quote applies. However, if you work doesn’t total between 6 and 9 hours then it doesn’t apply and you need to read more to discover what does apply. If you have less than 6 hours no break required and more than 9 hours 45 minutes of break required.
So, for a shift of more than 6 hours you will need either 30 minutes of break OR 45 minutes depending on whether you exceed 9 hours work. The only time you have to have completed 30 minutes of break between 6 and 9 hours of work is when you will not exceed 9 hours for the shift. If you are going to exceed 9 hours then there is no requirement to take a break between 6 and 9 hours.
delboytwo:
as you have worked for six hour you must take a brake of 30 Min’s which can be split in two 15 Min’s periods
No, you are wrong. You cannot exceed 6 hours work without a break and that break can be 15 minutes with the remainder of the break, either 15 or 30 minutes depending on the total amount of work in the shift, being taken either before exceeding the next 6 hours or before the end of the shift
delboytwo:
Note it is the amount of work which triggers the breaks
in that post you worked 6 hours and only took 15 Min’s and then worked for another 6 hours so in theory you have only had a brake of 15 Min’s in 12 hours working which in fact you should of had 30 Min’s and take a 15 Min’s before the end of your shift
Again you are wrong. In my example work totalled more than 9 hours and at no point was 6 hours exceeded without a break and 45 minutes were taken in total. That is 100% legal as far as the WTD goes.
delboytwo:
4 hours other work + 2 hours driving triggers a break (30 minutes in this case) under the
Regulations. Another 3 hours work (9 hours in total) and another 15 minute break is needed
under the Regulations. There is no requirement to take any breaks under the European drivers’
hours rules as total driving time has not reached 4 ½ hours. Total daily break time = 45
minutes.this is the point i have been trying to get across if you have work for 6 hours without taking a brake you most have 30 min between 6-9 hours and if you go over 9 hours you must take another 15 Min’s before the end of you shift.
This is the point you have been getting completely wrong. There is nothing in the regulations which states you must take 30 minutes between 6 and 9 hours, you are reading it wrong. In that quote they have worded it badly, when they say ‘in this case’ they mean in this example, they don’t mean you must take 30 minutes.
There are only three things to consider.
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Don’t work more than 6 hours without a break
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if you shift will total between 6 and 9 hours work a break, or breaks totalling 30 minutes must be taken.
-
If your shift will total more than 9 hours work a break, or breaks totalling 45 minutes must be taken.
delboytwo:
looking at you post would in fact require 60 Min’s of brakes cos you worked two 6 hour periods
but the reg only require 45 Min’s in total
Now you are being silly. If the regulations only require 45 minutes, why would you need 60 minutes? For a shift of more than 9 hours work you need 45 minutes of break for the WTD and there is no way you would need more than that unless you took 30 minutes very early on, say after an hour, then did 6 hours, 15 minute break, 6 hours.
delboytwo:
mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break
of at least 30 Min’s
Where does it say it must be 30 minutes Del? It doesn’t say that anywhere in the regulations. HERE are the official regulations and you will not find anywhere in that document it saying that it must be 30 minutes at 6 hours or 30 minutes must have been taken in total between 6 and 9 hours.
i will admit that i am wrong reading the link gives me more info and if i was reading that one i would of understood your post
Breaks
7. - (1) No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.(2) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds six hours but does not exceed nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 30 minutes and interrupting that time.
u Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 45 minutes and interrupting that period.[/u]
(4) Each break may be made up of separate periods of not less than 15 minutes each…
the bit underlined explains your post in the regs.
in the regs i was reading this is not put in that way and if i had read this you would not be banging you head at me.
some times you can get stuck by regs that have not been written in the same context as the ones that matter.
so once again sorry for my comments in my last post
delboytwo:
i will admit that i am wrong
Could you teach ROG to realise when he is wrong this quickly? 
Now you are sorted out I gotta go to bed as I have to be up at 04:00.
Coffeeholic:
delboytwo:
i will admit that i am wrong
Could you teach ROG to realise when he is wrong this quickly?
Now you are sorted out I gotta go to bed as I have to be up at 04:00.
can you teach and old boy new tricks that mite be difficult 
delboytwo:
Coffeeholic:
delboytwo:
i will admit that i am wrong
Could you teach ROG to realise when he is wrong this quickly?
Now you are sorted out I gotta go to bed as I have to be up at 04:00.
can you teach and old boy new tricks that mite be difficult
That’s you two off my xmas card list
Here we go again…
I’ve been trying to explain to our debrief clerk, transport supervisors and now our training man that you don’t need 30 mins break after 6 hours. The bloke who does our digi tacho training says he has done a course at college and I am completely wrong!
I think they should all go to college and learn to read English.
They are now printing off examples from the vosa website to try and prove that I am wrong.
Having read Coffeeholic and Tachograph’s posts over the last few years I know who I trust!
I also have one of Davey’s new timers to make sure I’m ok.
To prove my point today I took a 15 minute break after 3hours and then took a 30 minute break at 6hrs 20mins. When I got back I told our debrief girl that I had done it this way and she started ranting on that I would have a disciplinary against me because I had not had 30 mins in the 6 hrs as required by the WTD.
I replied that I can only have a disciplinary if I have committed an offence. She was adamant that I would get an infringement and would have to face the music.
Anyway, after she had downloaded the info from my card she sat there staring at the screen and finding NO INFRINGEMENTS I think she might realise that they were wrong.
They use tachomaster analysis software which gives an instant reading and looks as if it’s up to speed on the WTD.
I wonder if there is anywhere that I can download or print off the WTD rules on breaks but worded in laymans terns so our office can understand them.
When I ask them a question I expect them to be able to give me a clear and legal answer not spout off inaccurate drivel. After all they have responsibility for their drivers and should be able to provide the proper info.
Cheers
Dave
thanks for that Del - but I think I need it spelt out for the numpties in our office!!
I have asked them to show me where it says you must take 30 mins break and I just get the stock answer. I think it’s what Coffee said in an earlier post that a combination of ignorance and lazy training is leading to conflicting information being given out.
Unfortunately the 15 minute break for the 6 hour rule isn’t mentioned in any written regulations, you probably already know this but I’ll try to explain where the 15 minutes comes from anyway.
The regulations say that you should not work longer than 6 hours without a break but does not stipulate how long that break should be.
The minimum break that will count for the WTD regulations is 15 minutes therefore with the absence of a written break length for the 6 hour rule it’s assumed to be the minimum allowed, which as I said is 15 minutes.
Hence you should not work more than 6 hours without a break of at least 15 minutes
Page 43 - Drivers hours and tachograph rules:
Breaks:
— Mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
— If your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by
a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes.
— If your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break
or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes.
— Breaks should be of at least 15 minutes’ duration.
The bloke who does our digi tacho training says he has done a course at college and I am completely wrong!
You know I’m sure I’ve seen that phrase used before somewhere 
Oh I remember it’s been used in numerous threads about drivers hours and tachograph regulations, usually just before someone proves them to be wrong
Perhaps you should advise your tacho bloke to sign up here so he can be educated in the error of his ways
I think I’ll carry on doing what I did yesterday just to prove my point. (Tacho regs allowing)
We have started our annual training courses again and I should have mine in the next week or two.
I shall print off anything I can find on here and present it to the training bloke and then see what happens.
The best part of it is that I wasn’t asking for myself - my mate was worried that he hadn’t had enough break (15 mins) and that he hadn’t got enough time to get to the services in his 6 hours to have his other(?) 15. I told him that he was ok and that he was in the clear to drive up to his 4 1/2 hrs under the tacho laws.
When I asked for clarification I was given the usual ’ after 6 hours you must have 30 mins break’ baloney.
When I questioned it I had three of them going red in the face trying to explain why I was wrong.
When I asked them to show me where it said you had to have 30 mins they said I wasn’t reading it properly. The debrief girl (who has also done a ‘college course’ in tachos) said when she proves to me I am wrong I will owe her an apology.
I can’t wait
Why don’t they simply phone a VOSA test station, anyone will do, and ask for a traffic officer who will give them the correct answer 
It is, after all, VOSA who enforce the regs.
LIST OF VOSA TEST STATIONS - most of which will have traffic officers based at those stations but may be working in the field. A mobile number is usually given by the receptionist for the head traffic officer if not in the office.
It really is so simple it is amazing that folk just don’t get it. It couldn’t be plainer the way it is written in the regulations.
Breaks:
— Mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
If it had to be 30 minutes at that point it would have to say so, it doesn’t, so it just needs to be a break of such length that complies with the WTD regulations.
Breaks should be of at least 15 minutes’ duration.
And there it tells us what qualifies as a break.
Looking at another bit
If your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by
a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes.
That clearly says 30 minutes if you are working for a total of between 6 and 9 hours you need 30 minutes. It does not say you need 30 minutes at 6 hours. Again if 30 minutes were required at the 6 hour point then it would have to state that in the regulations and it doesn’t.
What is so hard about that, which causes people who presumably have enough intelligence to do a college course unable to grasp it?
Coffeeholic:
It really is so simple it is amazing that folk just don’t get it. It couldn’t be plainer the way it is written in the regulations.Breaks:
— Mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.If it had to be 30 minutes at that point it would have to say so, it doesn’t, so it just needs to be a break of such length that complies with the WTD regulations.
Breaks should be of at least 15 minutes’ duration.
And there it tells us what qualifies as a break.
Looking at another bit
If your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by
a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes.That clearly says 30 minutes if you are working for a total of between 6 and 9 hours you need 30 minutes. It does not say you need 30 minutes at 6 hours. Again if 30 minutes were required at the 6 hour point then it would have to state that in the regulations and it doesn’t.
What is so hard about that, which causes people who presumably have enough intelligence to do a college course unable to grasp it?
I think the problem is that they learn the rules but don’t understand them. It’s a bit like driving, there are instructors who teach you to pass your test but don’t teach you to drive!
VOSA could help by putting a clearly worded thorough explanation on their website that we could all refer to and therefore save us having to spend some of our well earned weekend clarifying the law.