Yesterday I started at 05h00 and then got stuck in the mess on the M180 westbound caused by an accident near Scunny. I ended up rolling into Doncaster North MSA about a minute before 20h00 just as my 15h shift was up. At this point I took my card out of the tacho. The company I was working for sent a driver out to get me, and I ended up clocking off back in Leeds at 21h30.
My dilemma is what to mark the 1.5h from 20h00 to 21h30 as on the back of the tacho (I’ve already marked my SDR line at 21h30, so there’s no point suggesting just marking it at 20h00 and forgetting about those 1.5h as I want my tacho and my timesheet to match).
I could put it as break, but then I would probably not get paid for it.
I could put it as “other work” but then it would count as 1.5h towards the WTD that I would rather not have.
So can I get round both of those by putting it down as POA? That way I still get paid but it doesn’t count towards the WTD. I knew the other driver would arrive at about 20h30 and I knew it was an hour from there to the yard, so this would seem alright to me as I knew how long it would last.
Any comments? I’m going into the agency on the way in this morning to see what they recommend, but I would also be interested to hear what you lot have to say.
you could have got round this by ringing police informing them of your situation they have then given you a incident number which you would have written on back of your tacho along somthing spread over exceeded due to rta and then the incident number and you could have then got back to base
to be honest donny services to leeds is a long way to be expected to be picked up.
what you should have done was ring them as soon as youknew you was running out of hours.giving them your best guess as to were you was going to end up. park it up after 15 hours, drawn your lines as 8pm finsh.
the extra 1.5 hours should not of been recorded on your tacho and you should of arranged for your tm to either let you use the car to go straight home as you was out of duty time or night outed and demanded your 11 hours off.
if it was 1.5 hours before you got back i would make sure the tm added it to next days working hours to get the pay.
donny srevices is 1/2 i would have drove back then write on the back of the chart … ran 1/2 extra to base due to traffic jams.
then got back and booked 16 hrs.
i dont understand that you wouldnt have got paid if you had it as break no matter how many breaks you have you should only be deducted 3/4 hr.
jessicas dad:
donny srevices is 1/2 i would have drove back then write on the back of the chart … ran 1/2 extra to base due to traffic jams.
then got back and booked 16 hrs.
i dont understand that you wouldnt have got paid if you had it as break no matter how many breaks you have you should only be deducted 3/4 hr.
you don’t say (or perhaps I’m not reading your post properly )whether the problem with the traffic was at the start or end of the day. If the traffic problem was at the start then you should have spent the night at Donny. You can depart from the EC drivers hours only to deal with an unforseen emergency and to ensure that; you, the vehicle and load reach the first available safe parking. If the traffic problem was at the start of your day, then running out of time at the end of the day could not be an unforseen circumstance.
If the problem occured at the end of the day, then could you ‘hand on heart’ justify running from Donny services back to base. Probably not bearing in mind that you stopped at the services anyway.
Unfortunately, your damned either way. You should have spent the night at the services. Although the ‘Skills’ court case refered to PSV drivers going to a place of duty, rather than returning from dropping a vehicle off, I’m sure that most courts would look at your journey back to base or home as being duty and therfore you’ve had insufficient daily rest. The same case also clarified that a record was required to be kept for the journey from base to vehicle or home to vehicle (if not at the operating centre) as this journey came under ‘duty’ rather than private journey. Had you only run out of driving time then the case is much easier as you could travel back to home / base in the remaining duty time. Ensuring you kept a record of the time spent on the journey.
Having a Police incident number is of no use under these circumstances as you can still only by-pass the Regs until you have got to the first available parking, which in this case would be the services you were already in.
What you record the time as is pretty imaterial. Had you not exceeded the spreadover then I’d suggest POA as it was a delay, the duration was known about in advance. As it is, it doesn’t really matter as you’ve had insufficient daily rest.
VOSA:
FAQ.21) If I run out of hours before I reach my normal operating base, how would time spent driving/being driven back to base count - can it be classed as rest ?
No. In the DfT’s view, as the outward journey from home to places other than the usual operating base cannot be considered as rest (as found by the European Court Judgement at FAQ.20), it would be difficult to argue that the return leg of such a journey could be considered as rest - especially if you’ve already completed a full day’s work.
The main factor here is the degree of free choice the employer gives you as to when and how you travel home. In the DfT’s view, you may have little or no choice as to when and how you make your journey home from a place other than your employer’s operating centre, if you are not going to miss your next designated driving duties. So whether you are picked up and returned to base, or you drive the car back to base after completing your shift, the Department considers that you are not at rest until you arrive back at base. This view is regardless of whether you are being paid for this time.
It’s a new one on me, I must admit (I’ve highlighted the it in bold that is really interesting). I allways though when you run out of hours, pull the tacho and get someone to fetch you. Not anymore it would seem, but what if the vehicle doesn’t have a sleeper cab then?
I would have said mark the 1.5 hrs down as a POA, because you know when your going to get back to base (as you’ve allready asked and been tipped the wink by the office ). Ask them to pay you for the time as your going to be jumped up and down at anyway as you’ve allready exceeded your hours according to the above quote, so why not get paid?
Liberace:
I would have said mark the 1.5 hrs down as a POA, because you know when your going to get back to base (as you’ve allready asked and been tipped the wink by the office ). Ask them to pay you for the time as your going to be jumped up and down at anyway as you’ve allready exceeded your hours according to the above quote, so why not get paid?
Thanks for all the answers. This is what I’ve done as it’s what I thought was the best plan and also what the agency I work for have suggested.
There’s no way I was marking the SDR line at 20h00 as I wasn’t resting and I was still getting paid until 21h30. Also I would guess it’s dodgier doing that than running 1.5h over (after all, I had a legit reason for going over, and at least that way it doesn’t look like I’m trying to hide something).
If you run out of time and are relieved or picked up in a company vehicle you are still on duty. Even if a driver comes out in a car that is owned by the company.
I have never heard of the police giving an incident number for tachos. If you can get the police to sign and date your card with the time, that may help if it goes to court
You want to be paid for what ever time you’ve done, regardless of the fact that your over hours. Personaly i would reckon that unless you do this sought of thing on a regular basis which i doubt, and the fact that your work schedule would under normal running conditions allow you ample time to return to base, then due to the incident that occured, that being the road closure and ensuing chaos, then most VOSA guys would not take any action against you.
Even with a day cab you could if you wanted charged the company for a night in the travel lodge, although i would probably have done same as you if i was on day work
). Ask them to pay you for the time as your going to be jumped up and down at anyway as you’ve allready exceeded your hours according to the above quote, so why not get paid?