if you have 45min break after 5 hours work does this comply with the wtd if you work a 15 hour day?
forget about driving hours rules and poa etc.
The rules say between 6 and 9 hours 30 min(0r 2 15 min ) more than 9 hours another 15 min (45 in total).
Does the rules say that you have to have another break after another 6 hours?
urgent reply pls.
disgo:
f you have 45min break after 5 hours work does this comply with the wtd if you work a 15 hour day?
forget about driving hours rules and poa etc.
SPOT ON for the TOTAL BUT that would leave you with 9 hours and 15 mins without a break and no worker shall do more than 6 hours with out a break of at least 15 mins
So quite a bit OOPS
Rog,
mobile workers must not work more than 6 hours without a break, agreed and complied with.
if your working hours total more than 9 hours breaks totalling 45 mins,complied with.
Where do the regs say you have tohave another break after that even though it goes over another 6 hours?
disgo:
Rog,
mobile workers must not work more than 6 hours without a break, agreed and complied with.
if your working hours total more than 9 hours breaks totalling 45 mins,complied with.
Where do the regs say you have tohave another break after that even though it goes over another 6 hours?
You said it yourself in your first sentence. “Workers must not work more than 6 hours without a break”. In the example given you’re working over 9 hours without a break so the example does not comply with that rule. To make it legal from a WTD perspective you would need to take another 15 minute break somewhere between 3h and 6h after the 45min break to ensure at no point in the shift that you go more than 6h of working time without a break.
Paul
The 6 hour rule is a bit like the 4.5 hours driving time rule - both have a maximum time limit before you must take a break of a certain minimum duration.
If you do a 9 hour driving day then you must have 45 mins minimum break but inside that 9 hours you also have a 4.5 hour maximum
If you do a 10 hour driving day then you must have 1.5 hours of break but inside that 10 hours you also have to comply with the 4.5 hour maximum
Can you see how similar this is to the RT(WTD)R ?
If you do a working day over 9 hours (not counting breaks or POA) then you must have 45 mins of break but inside that 9+? hours you also have to comply with the 6 hour maximum
disgo:
Where do the regs say you have tohave another break after that even though it goes over another 6 hours?
Where does it say you don’t?
It doesn’t say the break after 6 hours rule only applies to the first 6 hours work in a shift, therefore it applies to any period of 6 hours work without a break.
there is a sentence in the regulation that says
If the mobile workers were to work longer than 9 hours than total breaks for the day would be
45 minutes.
but the 6 hour work rule takes precedence if your doing other work and not driving
look at it this way if you only had to take 45 mins break in that day, what would stop you from starting work at 6 am work for 1 hour than take your 45 min wtd break and just carrying on working for the rest of the day I:E till 6pm, what stops you doing that is the 6 hour rule
mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break
and the words in red say just that
and that why in the regs it ask you a simple thing to do and that is
In the interest of safety, and as a matter of good practice, it is strongly recommended that
breaks should be distributed evenly throughout the day.
Thanks Guy’s,
Neil,you are the one who says read the regs. don’t interpretate them and as you rightly say they don’t.
Are the regs. for a days(shift) work?
Therefore if you have 30 mins between 6 and 9 hours then 15 mins after 9 hours have you complied with the regs for that day?When the regs were drawn up did they think that no one would(providing they spread the 15 mins. evenly would go into another 6 hour period.
Joining that thought to Delboy two’s reply what is there to stop you doing 1 hour work then taking a 45 min break then working 9 hours plus as per the regs.(apart from interpretating the rules tosay you have to have another break for the second 6 hours - if you see what I mean).
As an aside assuming you have had 30 mins between 6 and 9 hours at what point do you have to have the next 15 min break?At 9 hours or before the star of the next six hour period?
I will reveal all as to why this has cropped up after I have seen all sensible replies.
Thanks
WORKING TIME is driving time and other work added together not break or POA
There are 2 different requirements depending on what WORKING TIME is done in a shift
(A) if the WORKING TIME is between 6 & 9 hours then 30 mins must be taken during that shift
OR
(B) if the WORKING TIME is over 9 hours then 45 mins must be taken during that shift
Choose either (A) or (B) but not both
The reason I am pointing this out is because you seem to think that if (B) then then 30 mins must be taken before the 9 hour point which is incorrect.
disgo:
Thanks Guy’s,
Neil,you are the one who says read the regs. don’t interpretate them and as you rightly say they don’t.
Are the regs. for a days(shift) work?
Therefore if you have 30 mins between 6 and 9 hours then 15 mins after 9 hours have you complied with the regs for that day?
Yes, provided it is no more than 6 hours after the end of the 30 minute break, because having the last 15 after 9 hours means you cannot then exceed a further 6 hours without a break due to the 15 hour maximum duty imposed by the tacho regs.
disgo:
When the regs were drawn up did they think that no one would(providing they spread the 15 mins. evenly would go into another 6 hour period.
Probably and they covered that when they made the rule.
Breaks
7. - (1) No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
disgo:
Joining that thought to Delboy two’s reply what is there to stop you doing 1 hour work then taking a 45 min break then working 9 hours plus as per the regs.(apart from interpretating the rules tosay you have to have another break for the second 6 hours - if you see what I mean).
Paragraph 7. (1) from the regulations prevents that and that isn’t an interpretation, that is a clearly stated requirement of the regulations.The interpretation bit comes when people assume it only applies to the first six hours work in a shift. They are adding something that isn’t there when they do that and as I always say, just read what’s there and don’t add anything.
Work 3 hours and take a 45 minute break. Work a further 6 hours and you need a break of 15 minutes before continuing to work otherwise you are working more than 6 hours without a break, which Paragraph 7.(1) doesn’t allow.
Remember it isn’t a maximum of 45 minutes for work of over 9 hours, it is at least 45 minutes and you may require more to comply with all aspects of the regulations, particularly this bit - 7. (1) No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break…
disgo:
As an aside assuming you have had 30 mins between 6 and 9 hours at what point do you have to have the next 15 min break?At 9 hours or before the star of the next six hour period?
The next break will have to be taken before exceeding 6 hours work from the end of the 30 minute break or before the end of the shift, whichever comes first. You cannot take it right at the end of the shift as it must interrupt the working time so you need at least a minute of work after the break.
If you are doing a 15 hour shift and wanting to get the minimum breaks for the RT(WTD)R in as early as possible then this would be the way to do it
Work 2 hours 15 mins
break 30 mins
Work 6 hours
break 15 mins
Work 6 hours
This could be done in reverse order and still be legal
O.k. Thanks Neil and others.new I was on a loser but just thought I would try it!
Had an infringement to sign for over 6 hours work.
Ran in after night out, 3 and 1/2 hours driving.Stopped for a 45 break for brekky then ran in to yard 40 mins driving. Load cancelled so went shunting for rest of day,stayed late to cover night shunter. No more than 1 hours driving in total,just fannying around,loads of spare time but did not alter module to show another break.