Why do you get an infringement for not taking a 30 min break after working between 6 and 9 hours - even if you have had a 15 min in the first 6 hours - is the software wrong - or is it just interpretation ?
Jenson Button:
Why do you get an infringement for not taking a 30 min break after working between 6 and 9 hours - even if you have had a 15 min in the first 6 hours - is the software wrong - or is it just interpretation ?
sounds like both. if you have already had a 15 for the 6hrs then you only need another 15 to satisfy the 9, and another 15 for the 12
loopyjuice:
Jenson Button:
Why do you get an infringement for not taking a 30 min break after working between 6 and 9 hours - even if you have had a 15 min in the first 6 hours - is the software wrong - or is it just interpretation ?sounds like both. if you have already had a 15 for the 6hrs then you only need another 15 to satisfy the 9, and another 15 for the 12
If only that were the case. If your working hours are between 0-6 hours you do not need to have any rest.
If your working hours are between 6-9 hours then you must have a total of 30 minutes rest.
If your working hours are over 9 hours then you need a total of 45 minutes of rest.
To qualify as a rest period you must have at least 15 minutes without interruption.
You must not work more than 6 hours without a period of rest.
You cannot take a period of rest at the start or end of the day.
OP you may find that your company has a policy above this standard, ours used to say at least 30 minutes at 6 hours.
Driving regs take precedent over WTD regs but breaks can be used to satisfy both sets of regs.
work time regs state that a break of atleast 15 minutes must be taken within 6hrs.
and that a total break time of 30 minutes to be taken by 9hrs of duty/work
from the vosa website scroll down to page 3
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Working%20time%20leaflet.pdf
Working between 6 and 9 hours per day requires breaks totalling 30 minutes. If more that 9 hours is worked then
breaks must total 45 minutes.
Breaks must be of at least 15 minutes duration. Break requirements under the Regulations, are in addition to those under the EU drivers’ hours rules. But where mainly driving work is undertaken it
is possible that working time breaks may be satisfied by breaks from driving taken under the EU drivers’ hours
rules.
The EU drivers’ hours rules break requirements take precedence when driving.
From the road transport working time guidance website scroll down to page 26
The Regulations require that:
mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break,
if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes,
if your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes,
breaks should be of at least 15 minutes duration.
hope this helps
i thought it was 45 min break after 4.5 hrs driving
oneillmartin:
i thought it was 45 min break after 4.5 hrs driving
that is the eu tacho regs. this is about the working time regs.
tacho regs will always trump working time regs but if you are only doning locals/multi drops then working time regs come into it aswell
loopyjuice:
oneillmartin:
i thought it was 45 min break after 4.5 hrs drivingthat is the eu tacho regs. this is about the working time regs.
tacho regs will always trump working time regs but if you are only doning locals/multi drops then working time regs come into it aswell
Err, Tachograph Rules and WTD do not ‘trump’ each other. They are equally valid, if you’re prepared to trust your livelihood to the collective wisdom of the members of TNUK suit yourself.
Just remember, opinions and facts rarely match,
W
AlexWignall:
loopyjuice:
oneillmartin:
i thought it was 45 min break after 4.5 hrs drivingthat is the eu tacho regs. this is about the working time regs.
tacho regs will always trump working time regs but if you are only doning locals/multi drops then working time regs come into it aswellErr, Tachograph Rules and WTD do not ‘trump’ each other.tachograph rules do trump wtd rules in the sense of Driving time They are equally valid, yes they are both equally valid and work in conjunction with each other. perhaps i should of phrased it better if you’re prepared to trust your livelihood to the collective wisdom of the members of TNUK suit yourself.
Just remember, opinions and facts rarely match,
W
what i was trying to say is
yes it is 45 mins after 4.5hrs of DRIVING but you dont always do that if for instance you are doing multidrop work so the wtd comes into play aswell, which is 15 mins minimum to be taken at or before 6hrs of duty, then another 15mins at or before 9hrs of duty/ or 30 minutes to satisfy the tacho regulations and reset the driving time
loopyjuice:
AlexWignall:
loopyjuice:
oneillmartin:
i thought it was 45 min break after 4.5 hrs drivingthat is the eu tacho regs. this is about the working time regs.
tacho regs will always trump working time regs but if you are only doning locals/multi drops then working time regs come into it aswellErr, Tachograph Rules and WTD do not ‘trump’ each other.tachograph rules do trump wtd rules in the sense of Driving time They are equally valid, yes they are both equally valid and work in conjunction with each other. perhaps i should of phrased it better if you’re prepared to trust your livelihood to the collective wisdom of the members of TNUK suit yourself.
Just remember, opinions and facts rarely match,
W
what i was trying to say is
yes it is 45 mins after 4.5hrs of DRIVING but you dont always do that if for instance you are doing multidrop work so the wtd comes into play aswell, which is 15 mins minimum to be taken at or before 6hrs of duty, then another 15mins at or before 9hrs of duty/ or 30 minutes to satisfy the tacho regulations and reset the driving time
What I’m getting at…
(although no prosecutions have been recorded on TNUK that I’ve seen)
… is that drivers hours rules and WTD rules have equal precedence until proven otherwise.
Although, I agree that if you stick with the drivers hours rules you should be okay for the WTD that isn’t always the case.
Personally, I would be reluctant to be the one that proved the rule (insipte of what encouragement I might garner from TNUK).
W
AlexWignall:
What I’m getting at…(although no prosecutions have been recorded on TNUK that I’ve seen)
… is that drivers hours rules and WTD rules have equal precedence until proven otherwise.
Although, I agree that if you stick with the drivers hours rules you should be okay for the WTD that isn’t always the case.
Personally, I would be reluctant to be the one that proved the rule (insipte of what encouragement I might garner from TNUK).
W
as far as i am aware there have been no prosecutions at all for wtd infringements, where as there have been thousands for drivers hrs infringements.
Jenson Button:
Why do you get an infringement for not taking a 30 min break after working between 6 and 9 hours - even if you have had a 15 min in the first 6 hours - is the software wrong - or is it just interpretation ?
Software not right it seems
Is there any point in the whole shift where 6 hours working time has been done without a 15 min break? - I ask as some get caught out with the back 6 working hours of a shift not having a 15 min break
Jenson Button:
Why do you get an infringement for not taking a 30 min break after working between 6 and 9 hours - even if you have had a 15 min in the first 6 hours - is the software wrong - or is it just interpretation ?
What could be happening is the driver mite be finishing before the 9 hours have been done and there would have still need the other 15 minutes required, before end of shift, last place i worked at most drivers did no more the 8 hours and you were lucky to do more than 3 hours driving but would only take 15 minutes break, there all forgot to do the other 15 minutes,
In the regulations it say 30 minutes is the minimum rest for 6 to 9 hours,or 45 minutes if over 9 hours work, and you can split it into 2x15 minute periods or 3x15 periods
the 15 minutes at 6 hours is a choice not a requirement, you can take the full 30 minutes if you so wished
look at it the way if you take a 30 minute break for RTD working time, in stead of 15 minutes you mite not get any infringements for RTD working time and if your driver time does go into 4.5 hour all you need is a 30 minute break, most employer do not pay for 1 hour per day so if that’s the case have the hour and be happy in knowing your not causing silly infringements cropping up.
delboytwo:
look at it the way if you take a 30 minute break for RTD working time, in stead of 15 minutes you mite not get any infringements for RTD working time and if your driver time does go into 4.5 hour all you need is a 30 minute break, most employer do not pay for 1 hour per day so if that’s the case have the hour and be happy in knowing your not causing silly infringements cropping up.
If you did take 30 mins and then another 30 mins later then that could keep you at work for 15 mins longer than you really need to be
ROG:
delboytwo:
look at it the way if you take a 30 minute break for RTD working time, in stead of 15 minutes you mite not get any infringements for RTD working time and if your driver time does go into 4.5 hour all you need is a 30 minute break, most employer do not pay for 1 hour per day so if that’s the case have the hour and be happy in knowing your not causing silly infringements cropping up.If you did take 30 mins and then another 30 mins later then that could keep you at work for 15 mins longer than you really need to be
Yes I no that Rog but if you no your going to drive over 4.5 hour in a day you would accommodate you breaks accordingly it just an answer to the op
is this just a fleeting visit…del,or are you back for good… 
commonrail:
is this just a fleeting visit…del,or are you back for good…
yes for now internet issues sorted, 
when sky gest it who knows 
ROG:
- I ask as some get caught out with the back 6 working hours of a shift not having a 15 min break
By far the most common way of falling foul of WTD Rog. Scenario; you’re on the way home, finished your dinner break at 13.00, done several drops, it’s now 17.55 and you’re ten minutes from base with enough driving time to get home.
So, in order to satisfy the WTD, and keep a brigade of nit-picking pen-pushers in work, you’ve got to sit in a lay-by twiddling your bloody thumbs for fifteen minutes, then drive the couple of miles back to base, ending up getting home for a PROPER rest fifteen bloody minutes later than you would have.
I wouldn’t mind so much if all this crap wasn’t administered by people who think that there’s only one six o’clock in every day.
If you just take a 45 at around 5:55 into a shift, and 11:55 into a shift, you’ll never get one of these infringements.
If the firm doesn’t let you take 90 minutes of breaks on a 12-15 hour shift, then take it anyway, and let them moan.
Most contracts won’t deduct more than an hours worth of breaks, so it’s in the driver’s favour to take 2x45’s given the chance anyway.