Do you have to have your first 15 mins WITHIN the first 6 hours, so the latest you could start your wtd break would be 5 hours 45 mins… or can you wait till you have worked 6 hours and then have 15 mins?
any time up to 5 hrs and 59 minutes, because unless you can start your break bang on 6 hrs you would technically be breaking the law, that is if anyone really gave a toss about wtd. 
The wording is that you “must not work more than 6 hours without a break” so you’re legal to work exactly 6 hours and then immediately start your break.
Paul
The EU’s working time directive working in complete harmony with their driving hours rules as you can see
Starting a 30 min break at 5.59 and finishing at 6.29 is ok.
Trouble is, if you find yourself halfway around the M25 at the time, it isn’t very practical to take a break on the hard shoulder, which remains theoretically “illegal”.
WTD infringements are thus ten a penny.
Anyone from VOSA on here care to comment on their enforcement on WTD infringements? 
I gather that being 4.31 without a 45 (one lump, or 15+30) DOES get jumped on more often though. 
One of the firms rigid drivers where I am at the moment was pulled on m6 near Wigan for not wearing his seat belt yesterday. Tacho was checked and he was subsequently given a FPN for not having the required tacho break. He had in fact had a 30 minute and then a 15 minute so they were the wrong way around. He was then ‘let off’ with the seatbelt. He was given a £60 fp. The point being that he had satifsied one EU legislative law only to be caught out by another. On multi drop it’s something that catches me out too, I always end up having 30 minutes due to booking times and the WTD 6 hour rule and then you end up having to take a further 30 minutes to satisfy tacho regs usually because you can easily reach the 6 hours on WTD before 4.5 hours driving with multi drops.
Winseer:
Starting a 30 min break at 5.59 and finishing at 6.29 is ok.
As is starting a 15 minute break at 06:00 and ending it at 06:15.
Kerbdog:
He had in fact had a 30 minute and then a 15 minute so they were the wrong way around. He was then ‘let off’ with the seatbelt. He was given a £60 fp. The point being that he had satifsied one EU legislative law only to be caught out by another. On multi drop it’s something that catches me out too, I always end up having 30 minutes due to booking times and the WTD 6 hour rule and then you end up having to take a further 30 minutes to satisfy tacho regs usually because you can easily reach the 6 hours on WTD before 4.5 hours driving with multi drops.
He should have just had a 15 then a 30 which would have kept them both happy then.
The WTD break at the 6h point only needs to be 15 minutes.
Paul
Sorry if this has been asked before:-
After 6hrs then its a 15min break… is that your shift finished?
because as I read it, between 6 - 9hrs you need a 30min break…does this mean you have to take the other 15mins before the 9hrs are reached taking into account the 4.5hrs driving time doesn’t come first (45min break)
koikeeper:
Sorry if this has been asked before:-After 6hrs then its a 15min break… is that your shift finished?
because as I read it, between 6 - 9hrs you need a 30min break…does this mean you have to take the other 15mins before the 9hrs are reached taking into account the 4.5hrs driving time doesn’t come first (45min break)
If the working time in a shift is between 6 and 9 hours then the second 15 must be taken before the 9 hours and not at the end of the shift
If the working time in a shift is more than 9 hours then the second and third 15 mins can be taken after 9 hours but not at the end of the shift
I stand to be corrected but if you work 6hrs and have had no break the minimum that can be taken is 30 mins isn’t it? :S
Taffos!:
I stand to be corrected but if you work 6hrs and have had no break the minimum that can be taken is 30 mins isn’t it? :S
15 mins not 30 - its written in the rules but many misinterperet the rules incorrectly by mixing up what is required for total breaks in a shift with what is reuired for 6 hours
ROG:
Taffos!:
I stand to be corrected but if you work 6hrs and have had no break the minimum that can be taken is 30 mins isn’t it? :S15 mins not 30 - its written in the rules but many misinterperet the rules incorrectly by mixing up what is required for total breaks in a shift with what is reuired for 6 hours
I see that goes hand in hand with your last post ref 2nd 15! Made it a bit easier to understand thanks rog! 
I personally don’t know anybody that has been done on WTD, there’s a good reason for that…it aint real! it’s a case of being SEEN to be doing something, where as in reality doing ■■■■ all. When this idea first came out I and others thought, admittedly naively , that the job would finally be brought up to similar standards as other industries, ie you could earn a LIVING wage without having to work excessive hours, but then the powers that be realised that to achieve this a number of controversial actions would need to be taken such as taking on giant co.s such as Tesco by forcing their hand to sort out their act, for eg. where it would be no longer deemed reasonable to keep a truck ■■■■■■■ for hours at a time, but they took the easy way out…the appeasement route… and went for the cop out that is POA, where on paper only, you are doing 48hrs or whatever it is, and the other 20+ or whatever, are written off as POA (don’t pick me up on accuracy of hours it’s just that I’ve never been arsed enough to be interested! ) so as I said APPEARING to be doing the right thing, where the govt is happy, the EU is happy, the big co.s that affect the economy are happy, but we are left with the ■■■■, and as usual just bend over and take it up the…
Taffos!:
I stand to be corrected but if you work 6hrs and have had no break the minimum that can be taken is 30 mins isn’t it? :S
As ROG said you only need to take 15min at the 6h point. Assuming your shift is not more then 9h working time you need to take 30min in total before the end of the shift but only 15min of that needs to be at the 6h point, the other 15min can be later on (as long as it isn’t right at the end of the shift).
E.G.:
This is not legal, as the second break is right at the end of the shift:
start shift
work 6h
break 15min
work 2h
break 15min
finish shift
but this is legal, as the 1min work means the break is no longer at the end of the shift:
start shift
work 6h
break 15min
work 2h
break 15min
work 1min
finish shift
HTH,
Paul
robroy:
I personally don’t know anybody that has been done on WTD, there’s a good reason for that…it aint real! it’s a case of being SEEN to be doing something, where as in reality doing [zb] all. When this idea first came out I and others thought, admittedly naively
The only thing that can affect drivers is if the company they work for has policy which give infringements for RTD as that could lead to dismissal
Nice to see more regulations not causing too much confusion. When I get out of bed I will upload my infringements which clearly states a fine for not having a 30 minute break from 5hrs or so (the time of my 1st break) and then 11 hours or so and details of the enforceable fixed penalty I could have got !
Kerbdog:
Nice to see more regulations not causing too much confusion. When I get out of bed I will upload my infringements which clearly states a fine for not having a 30 minute break from 5hrs or so (the time of my 1st break) and then 11 hours or so and details of the enforceable fixed penalty I could have got !
Surely thats because from 5 hours to 11 hours or so is more than 6 hours 
But I’d had 45 so why does it need to be 30 and not 15
Kerbdog:
But I’d had 45 so why does it need to be 30 and not 15
The rule is that no driver may work more than 6 hours without taking a break
The other rule is that a break must be at least 15 mins
If you had 45 mins at 5 hours and then 15 mins at 11 hours then that would be legal for RTD working hours
Rog sorry if this is a dumb ■■■ question 
, what’s the difference between WTD and RTD, what does the R stand for, and sorry for appearing to be actually interested in this BS 