WTD 6 hour rule.

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
21

ROG:

tachograph:
Example:
Start work at 06:00, take a break of 15 minutes at 12:00 until 12:15, you could now legally work until 18:15 before needing to have another 15 minute break.
In this example you would need to have a total of 45 minutes break as the total shift would be over 9 hours.

Obviously this doesn’t take into consideration driving breaks.

Using the above example, if 2.5 hours driving was done between 0600 & 1215 then that is legal for WTD & tacho regs so far.
If 2 more hours driving is done from 1215 to say, 1515, then a 30 min break would be needed for the tacho but would also make up the 45 required for the WTD.

Did I say that right tachograph :question:

Spot on ROG

In the above example the break would be 12:00 to 12:15 so the first driving would need to be done before 12:00.

22

davidj247:
Don’t forget though that if you take a break of say 50 mins at 4hrs to cover your WTD and driving hours, 6 hrs on from this, if you haven’t done another 4.5 hrs driving then you will need to take another 30 min WTD rest break.

We were told that the 6 hour rule was for the First six hours not every six.
This was to ensure that the lads doing a lot of drops and not big mileage got a break as they did not accumulate 4.5 hrs driving time.

Sorry but you were told wrong :wink:

Breaks

    • (1) No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
  • Breaks:
    — Mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
23

E-mail sent to Steve Oliver Policy Advisor
Freight and Logistics Division

Department for Transport

Dear Steve
Thank you for your reply of Tue, 28 Oct 2008

The only point I am Looking at is that the web site shows in the Mobile Worker A is doing other work and driving is not being shown so to make myself 100% clear is the following example correct under this regulation

1hr other work
2hrs driving
3 hrs other work
1/4 break (rest)
2hrs driving
1/4 rest
1hr other work
End of duty

Reply recived

Yes, the example given in your email is correct. The driver has not done enough actual driving to qualify for a break under the EU rules. But the 6 hours of total work means a break must be taken (of at least 15 minutes) for the purposes of the Working Time rules. As he will be working for a total of 9 hours then 30 minutes of total breaks must be taken.

Now you must remember that as your driving more than 4.5hrs your 2nd break must be a min of 30 min
Coffeeholic and tachograph are correct
The E-mails I have quoted are those I recived from Steve Oliver reg another web site I am also a member of where this was of debate
Nick

24

tachograph:

EnglishTrucker:

tachograph:
The WTD regulations require you to take a break of at least 15 minutes before working more than 6 hours.
As you’re doing over 9 hours on most days you need to have at least 45 minutes total break/breaks that interrupt the shift, the shortest break that will ccount for the WTD is 15 minutes so you can if you wish split the WTD break into segments of at least 15 minutes.

See my reply ref 15mins.

If you work between 6 and 9 hours you should have a total of at least 30 minutes break/breaks interupting the shift.
No worker should work over 6 hours before having a break of at least 15 minutes, there’s no requirement to have a 30 minute break/breaks at 6 hours.

Example:
Start work at 06:00, take a break of 15 minutes at 12:00 until 12:15, you could now legally work until 18:15 before needing to have another 15 minute break.
In this example you would need to have a total of 45 minutes break as the total shift would be over 9 hours.

Obviously this doesn’t take into consideration driving breaks.

hi tachograph

I was reading you post your example you use is (IMO) wrong you say we must take 30 Min’s between 6 and 9 hours work you only took 15 Min’s wouldn’t you have to take a brake at 14:45 to be able to meet the wtd and then an other brake between 15:00 and 18:15 i hope you get what i mean

Del

25

delboytwo:

tachograph:

EnglishTrucker:

tachograph:
The WTD regulations require you to take a break of at least 15 minutes before working more than 6 hours.
As you’re doing over 9 hours on most days you need to have at least 45 minutes total break/breaks that interrupt the shift, the shortest break that will ccount for the WTD is 15 minutes so you can if you wish split the WTD break into segments of at least 15 minutes.

See my reply ref 15mins.

If you work between 6 and 9 hours you should have a total of at least 30 minutes break/breaks interupting the shift.
No worker should work over 6 hours before having a break of at least 15 minutes, there’s no requirement to have a 30 minute break/breaks at 6 hours.

Example:
Start work at 06:00, take a break of 15 minutes at 12:00 until 12:15, you could now legally work until 18:15 before needing to have another 15 minute break.
In this example you would need to have a total of 45 minutes break as the total shift would be over 9 hours.

Obviously this doesn’t take into consideration driving breaks.

hi tachograph

I was reading you post your example you use is (IMO) wrong you say we must take 30 Min’s between 6 and 9 hours work you only took 15 Min’s wouldn’t you have to take a brake at 14:45 to be able to meet the wtd and then an other brake between 15:00 and 18:15 i hope you get what i mean

Del

OOH :exclamation: - Now I’m getting excited as I might be able to use my gunsight thing :unamused: :wink: :laughing:

FOR HIRE AT REASONABLE RATES…

26

ROG:

delboytwo:

tachograph:

EnglishTrucker:

tachograph:
The WTD regulations require you to take a break of at least 15 minutes before working more than 6 hours.
As you’re doing over 9 hours on most days you need to have at least 45 minutes total break/breaks that interrupt the shift, the shortest break that will ccount for the WTD is 15 minutes so you can if you wish split the WTD break into segments of at least 15 minutes.

See my reply ref 15mins.

If you work between 6 and 9 hours you should have a total of at least 30 minutes break/breaks interupting the shift.
No worker should work over 6 hours before having a break of at least 15 minutes, there’s no requirement to have a 30 minute break/breaks at 6 hours.

Example:
Start work at 06:00, take a break of 15 minutes at 12:00 until 12:15, you could now legally work until 18:15 before needing to have another 15 minute break.
In this example you would need to have a total of 45 minutes break as the total shift would be over 9 hours.

Obviously this doesn’t take into consideration driving breaks.

hi tachograph

I was reading you post your example you use is (IMO) wrong you say we must take 30 Min’s between 6 and 9 hours work you only took 15 Min’s wouldn’t you have to take a brake at 14:45 to be able to meet the wtd and then an other brake between 15:00 and 18:15 i hope you get what i mean

Del

OOH :exclamation: - Now I’m getting excited as I might be able to use my gunsight thing :unamused: :wink: :laughing:

FOR HIRE AT REASONABLE RATES…

do i need that then Rog
do you think i should run and hide :laughing: :laughing:

27

delboytwo:

tachograph:
Example:
Start work at 06:00, take a break of 15 minutes at 12:00 until 12:15, you could now legally work until 18:15 before needing to have another 15 minute break.
In this example you would need to have a total of 45 minutes break as the total shift would be over 9 hours.

Obviously this doesn’t take into consideration driving breaks.

hi tachograph

I was reading you post your example you use is (IMO) wrong you say we must take 30 Min’s between 6 and 9 hours work you only took 15 Min’s wouldn’t you have to take a brake at 14:45 to be able to meet the wtd and then an other brake between 15:00 and 18:15 i hope you get what i mean

Del

No, tachograph is correct. You would only need to take the second part of the break earlier if you were only working up to 9 hours. If you shift is going to be longer than 9 hours the break is not required until later, either when you clock up another six hour work or before the end of the shift, whichever comes first.

The WTD only states that you must not work more than 6 hours without a break and how much total break is required depending on working time - 30 minutes for working time up to 9 hours and 45 minutes for working time of more than 9 hours. Nowhere in the regulations does it state you must take 30 minutes before exceeding 9 hours work

delboytwo:

ROG:
FOR HIRE AT REASONABLE RATES…

do i need that then Rog
do you think i should run and hide :laughing: :laughing:

Nah, you’re safe, all the ammo is reserved for ROG. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

28

Coffeeholic:

delboytwo:

ROG:
FOR HIRE AT REASONABLE RATES…

do i need that then Rog
do you think i should run and hide :laughing: :laughing:

Nah, you’re safe, all the ammo is reserved for ROG. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

■■■■ :exclamation: - I was hoping to make some money for xmas :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

29

Coffeeholic:

delboytwo:

tachograph:
Example:
Start work at 06:00, take a break of 15 minutes at 12:00 until 12:15, you could now legally work until 18:15 before needing to have another 15 minute break.
In this example you would need to have a total of 45 minutes break as the total shift would be over 9 hours.

Obviously this doesn’t take into consideration driving breaks.

hi tachograph

I was reading you post your example you use is (IMO) wrong you say we must take 30 Min’s between 6 and 9 hours work you only took 15 Min’s wouldn’t you have to take a brake at 14:45 to be able to meet the wtd and then an other brake between 15:00 and 18:15 i hope you get what i mean

Del

No, tachograph is correct. You would only need to take the second part of the break earlier if you were only working up to 9 hours. If you shift is going to be longer than 9 hours the break is not required until later, either when you clock up another six hour work or before the end of the shift, whichever comes first.

The WTD only states that you must not work more than 6 hours without a break and how much total break is required depending on working time - 30 minutes for working time up to 9 hours and 45 minutes for working time of more than 9 hours. Nowhere in the regulations does it state you must take 30 minutes before exceeding 9 hours work

delboytwo:

ROG:
FOR HIRE AT REASONABLE RATES…

do i need that then Rog
do you think i should run and hide :laughing: :laughing:

Nah, you’re safe, all the ammo is reserved for ROG. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

Quote:

  • Breaks:
    — Mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
    — If your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by
    a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes. — If your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break
    or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes.
    — Breaks should be of at least 15 minutes’ duration.

this is what tachograph posted in a post

30

delboytwo:

Coffeeholic:

delboytwo:

tachograph:
Example:
Start work at 06:00, take a break of 15 minutes at 12:00 until 12:15, you could now legally work until 18:15 before needing to have another 15 minute break.
In this example you would need to have a total of 45 minutes break as the total shift would be over 9 hours.

Obviously this doesn’t take into consideration driving breaks.

hi tachograph

I was reading you post your example you use is (IMO) wrong you say we must take 30 Min’s between 6 and 9 hours work you only took 15 Min’s wouldn’t you have to take a brake at 14:45 to be able to meet the wtd and then an other brake between 15:00 and 18:15 i hope you get what i mean

Del

No, tachograph is correct. You would only need to take the second part of the break earlier if you were only working up to 9 hours. If you shift is going to be longer than 9 hours the break is not required until later, either when you clock up another six hour work or before the end of the shift, whichever comes first.

The WTD only states that you must not work more than 6 hours without a break and how much total break is required depending on working time - 30 minutes for working time up to 9 hours and 45 minutes for working time of more than 9 hours. Nowhere in the regulations does it state you must take 30 minutes before exceeding 9 hours work

delboytwo:

ROG:
FOR HIRE AT REASONABLE RATES…

do i need that then Rog
do you think i should run and hide :laughing: :laughing:

Nah, you’re safe, all the ammo is reserved for ROG. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

Quote:

  • Breaks:
    — Mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
    — If your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by
    a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes. — If your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break
    or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes.
    — Breaks should be of at least 15 minutes’ duration.

this is what tachograph posted in a post

Sorry I’m not quite sure what you mean, the regulations require that you should not work for more than 6 hours before taking a break of at least 15 minutes.

If you work between 6 and 9 hours during the day you should have a total of at least 30 minute breaks interrupting the working day.

If you work a total of more than 9 hours you should have a total of at least 45 minutes break interupting the working day, this can be made up of breaks each of which should be at least 15 minutes.

Why would you need a break at 14:45 and 15:00 :confused:

It’s probably me but I just don’t understand what you’re getting at, the example I gave complies completely with the WTD 6 hour rule in every way.

BTW I’m sorry I didn’t reply to your post earlier but I’ve not been getting emails to say that replies have been made to this thread.

31

ROG:
OOH :exclamation: - Now I’m getting excited as I might be able to use my gunsight thing :unamused: :wink: :laughing:

Would that be the gun sight with a tachograph in the middle, if so sorry to disapoint you but you’ll have to keep it for another day :stuck_out_tongue: :wink:

32

delboytwo:
Quote:

  • Breaks:
    — Mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
    — If your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by
    a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes. — If your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break
    or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes.
    — Breaks should be of at least 15 minutes’ duration.

this is what tachograph posted in a post

Indeed it is and it is correct, and is what I said in my previous post. It doesn’t say anywhere there that you must take 30 minutes of break in total before exceeding 9 hours does it? Look at what he quoted.

If your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes.

Which says for a shift of more than 6 but less than 9 hours work, that shift should include a break of 30 minutes or 2 breaks of 15 minutes.

f your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes.

Which says that for a shift with more than 9 hours work, that shift should contain a break of 45 minutes or 2 or 3 breaks totalling 45 minutes.

Section 7 (2) and 7 (3) of the regulations apply to different shift lengths and if you are doing a shift with more than 9 hours work then the 6 - 9 hour bit mentioned in 7 (2) doesn’t apply to you. If you are doing a shift of up to 9 hours work then Section 7 (1), (2) and (4) apply and you ignore 7 (3). If you are doing a shift of more than 9 hours work then Section 7 (1), (3) and (4) apply and you ignore 7 (2). It is when a driver reads both 7 (2) and 7 (3) and applies them to one shift the confusion arises, which is what you are doing.

33

tachograph:
Why would you need a break at 14:45 and 15:00 :confused:

It’s probably me but I just don’t understand what you’re getting at, the example I gave complies completely with the WTD 6 hour rule in every way.

He is under the impression, wrongly, that you have to have taken 30 minutes of break in total before reaching 9 hours work and wants to take it at 14:45 as he thinks the 9 hours would be reached at 15:00. It wouldn’t be at 15:00, as in your example the earliest 9 hours work could be reached would be 15:15. 6 hours work 06:00 to 12:00, 15 minute break, 3 hours work 12:15 - 15:15. He forgot breaks don’t count toward the working time totals for the WTD.

34

Coffeeholic:

tachograph:
Why would you need a break at 14:45 and 15:00 :confused:

It’s probably me but I just don’t understand what you’re getting at, the example I gave complies completely with the WTD 6 hour rule in every way.

He is under the impression, wrongly, that you have to have taken 30 minutes of break in total before reaching 9 hours work and wants to take it at 14:45 as he thinks the 9 hours would be reached at 15:00. It wouldn’t be at 15:00, as in your example the earliest 9 hours work could be reached would be 15:15. 6 hours work 06:00 to 12:00, 15 minute break, 3 hours work 12:15 - 15:15. He forgot breaks don’t count toward the working time totals for the WTD.

tachograph wrote:

Example:
Start work at 06:00, take a break of 15 minutes at 12:00 until 12:15, you could now legally work until 18:15 before needing to have another 15 minute break.
In this example you would need to have a total of 45 minutes break as the total shift would be over 9 hours.

Obviously this doesn’t take into consideration driving breaks.

if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes,

in the reg it says the above

if you work for a company and your shift stars at 6.00 and you work till 14.00
in 6hours you must take a brake of 30 cos if you read it between 6 and 9 hours
this is what i am getting at when you have work 6 hours you take a brake at 12.00 till 12.15 your shift finish at 13.00 before 13.00 you sill have to take 15 mins brake as you have worked over six hours

so as you have work 6 hours you must take a brake of 30 before 15.00 as you that is why you have to show that you had a brake at 14.45 till 15.00 it does not matter that you had the 15 mins at 12.00 till 12.15 you only had 15 min you still have to take 15 nins before the 15.00 as you have gone in to the six hour

also to add if you go over 9 hours you have to take 15 mins more so
if you start at 6.00 and you shift finishes at 16.00 you have to take 45 nins in total you could do this 12.00 till 12.15 next 14.45 till 15.00 and next 15.00 till 15.15 than work for 45 min and you have met the working time

if you work 6 hours and 1 min you must take 30min brake before 9 hours are up

del

35

delboytwo:

Coffeeholic:

tachograph:
Why would you need a break at 14:45 and 15:00 :confused:

It’s probably me but I just don’t understand what you’re getting at, the example I gave complies completely with the WTD 6 hour rule in every way.

He is under the impression, wrongly, that you have to have taken 30 minutes of break in total before reaching 9 hours work and wants to take it at 14:45 as he thinks the 9 hours would be reached at 15:00. It wouldn’t be at 15:00, as in your example the earliest 9 hours work could be reached would be 15:15. 6 hours work 06:00 to 12:00, 15 minute break, 3 hours work 12:15 - 15:15. He forgot breaks don’t count toward the working time totals for the WTD.

tachograph wrote:

Example:
Start work at 06:00, take a break of 15 minutes at 12:00 until 12:15, you could now legally work until 18:15 before needing to have another 15 minute break.
In this example you would need to have a total of 45 minutes break as the total shift would be over 9 hours.

Obviously this doesn’t take into consideration driving breaks.

if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes,

in the reg it says the above

if you work for a company and your shift stars at 6.00 and you work till 14.00
in 6hours you must take a brake of 30 cos if you read it between 6 and 9 hours
this is what i am getting at when you have work 6 hours you take a brake at 12.00 till 12.15 your shift finish at 13.00 before 13.00 you sill have to take 15 mins brake as you have worked over six hours

so as you have work 6 hours you must take a brake of 30 before 15.00 as you that is why you have to show that you had a brake at 14.45 till 15.00 it does not matter that you had the 15 mins at 12.00 till 12.15 you only had 15 min you still have to take 15 nins before the 15.00 as you have gone in to the six hour

also to add if you go over 9 hours you have to take 15 mins more so
if you start at 6.00 and you shift finishes at 16.00 you have to take 45 nins in total you could do this 12.00 till 12.15 next 14.45 till 15.00 and next 15.00 till 15.15 than work for 45 min and you have met the working time

if you work 6 hours and 1 min you must take 30min brake before 9 hours are up

del

If your total shift is 9 hours or under - then yes

But the example given was a shift over 9 hours total so the 30 mins do not have to be taken at or before the 9 hour point because the regs overwrite that rule by saying that for shifts over 9 hours must have breaks totalling 45 mins.

It does not say that in a shift of over 9 hours that the 30 min break rule applies for the bit between 6 and 9 hours

In all cases it does say that there is a maximum time of 6 hours without a break of at least 15 mins

coffeeholic - did I say that correctly :question: :question:

36

delboytwo:
in the reg it says the above

if you work for a company and your shift stars at 6.00 and you work till 14.00
in 6hours you must take a brake of 30 cos if you read it between 6 and 9 hours
this is what i am getting at when you have work 6 hours you take a brake at 12.00 till 12.15 your shift finish at 13.00 before 13.00 you sill have to take 15 mins brake as you have worked over six hours

Correct, you would have working time of more than 6 but less than 9 hours so would need breaks totalling 30 minutes

delboytwo:
so as you have work 6 hours you must take a brake of 30 before 15.00 as you that is why you have to show that you had a brake at 14.45 till 15.00 it does not matter that you had the 15 mins at 12.00 till 12.15 you only had 15 min you still have to take 15 nins before the 15.00 as you have gone in to the six hour

No, not if you will be working time will be more than 9 hours, you can take the remaining 30 minutes, in one or two parts before the end of your shift, it doesn’t have to be before exceeding 9 hours.

delboytwo:
also to add if you go over 9 hours you have to take 15 mins more

Correct, more than you have to take for working time of 9 hours or less

delboytwo:
so if you start at 6.00 and you shift finishes at 16.00 you have to take 45 nins in total

Only if in the 10 hours duty time, 06:00 - 16:00, you accumulate more than 9 hours work.

delboytwo:
you could do this 12.00 till 12.15 next 14.45 till 15.00 and next 15.00 till 15.15 than work for 45 min and you have met the working time

You would have but you don’t have to take the second 15 minutes at 14:45, it could be later than that.

delboytwo:
if you work 6 hours and 1 min you must take 30min brake before 9 hours are up

No you don’t. Nowhere in the regulations does it state you must take 30 minutes before accumulating 9 hours work. The only stipulation in the WTD regarding taking a break before exceeding a certain amount of work is 6 hours. The remaining breaks, how much you need to take and when are dependent on amount of work done.

As I pointed out above you are reading the requirement for a shift containing between 6 and 9 hours work and applying it to a shift containing more than 9 hours work. The 6 - 9 hour requirement, Section 7 (2) of the regulations doesn’t apply to a shift with more than 9 hours work, that is covered by Section 7 (3).

You also should remember that it isn’t the time you start work that governs when a break must be taken, it is when you clock up 6 hours work, you could start work at 06:00 and not have to take a break until well after 12:00, and in some cases not be required to take a break at all. I do sometimes a shift where I start at 12:30 and finish at 19:30 -19:45, during which I usually do between 4 and 4.5 hours driving and about 45 minutes of other work. My duty time for the shift is 7 - 7.25 hours but as I don’t reach 4.5 hours driving or 6 hours work I don’t require a break for either set of regulations.

37

ROG:
If your total shift is 9 hours or under - then yes

But the example given was a shift over 9 hours total so the 30 mins do not have to be taken at or before the 9 hour point because the regs overwrite that rule by saying that for shifts over 9 hours must have breaks totalling 45 mins.

It does not say that in a shift of over 9 hours that the 30 min break rule applies for the bit between 6 and 9 hours

In all cases it does say that there is a maximum time of 6 hours without a break of at least 15 mins

coffeeholic - did I say that correctly :question: :question:

In the spirit of the season I put my gun to ground and agree you did indeed say that correctly. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

38

Coffeeholic:

ROG:
If your total shift is 9 hours or under - then yes

But the example given was a shift over 9 hours total so the 30 mins do not have to be taken at or before the 9 hour point because the regs overwrite that rule by saying that for shifts over 9 hours must have breaks totalling 45 mins.

It does not say that in a shift of over 9 hours that the 30 min break rule applies for the bit between 6 and 9 hours

In all cases it does say that there is a maximum time of 6 hours without a break of at least 15 mins

coffeeholic - did I say that correctly :question: :question:

In the spirit of the season I put my gun to ground and agree you did indeed say that correctly. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

First time for everything :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

  • do I get a gold star :question:
39

Just to add Del, you don’t seem to be reading what you are writing, look at the first bit below and read it carefully

delboytwo:
if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes,

You need to pay particular attention to the two words in red and realise that if your working time does not total between 6 and 9 hours then that part of the regulations does not apply, so you need to see what applies to working time of less than 6 or more than 9 hours.

40

ROG:

Coffeeholic:
coffeeholic - did I say that correctly :question: :question:
In the spirit of the season I put my gun to ground and agree you did indeed say that correctly. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

First time for everything :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

  • do I get a gold star :question:

Don’t push it, my Christmas spirit only runs so far. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: