Hi Guys,
Need some advice on WTD and the rolling 48h AVE working week.
I’m currently doing a shift working 6days a week for 3 weeks, followed by a week off, at my request due to personal reasons.
As I am doing 6 day weeks my average WTD per week is coming in at around 50-55 hours every week.
I has assumed that as I was having a week of, unpaid, not holiday, they would be counted as rest days so my ave working week would be (52.5*3)/4, i.e around 40h/week well below the 48h average.
However the person in my firm that deals with this insists that the day off in my rest week are counted as normal working days and contribute 8h a day to my working time calculations.
Have done a bit of research and it does seem that holiday, sickness and as he told me furlough would count toward this, however my understanding is my week off would be counted as rest days and not be included.
Can anyone confirm this for me please, and If I am correct any suggestions on how I convince our guy of this fact.
To be fair the person at your firm seems pretty clued up on this. It seems to be a period of continuous employment, even though you are taking weeks off at your request. Holidays, sickness and other forms of leave such as paternity / maternity leave count as “excluded hours” and hours are added for the purposes of the overall calculation. I realise what you are talking about doesn’t strictly fall into these categories, but unless it is a career break or something like that, I can’t really see that hours wouldn’t be added.
This is setting some alarm bells off tbh. Firstly can you establish that your employment is as a lorry driver working under EU regulations? If so my first concern would be your weekly rest period which as you know should be 45 hours but can be reduced down to 24 hours. However compensation is required before the end of the third week. If you’re working 3 x 6 shifts you likely aren’t compensating adequately. Apologies if you are finishing your last shift early enough for this not to be an issue.
Secondly (and this is my understanding so may not be 100% correct) 21(?) days of your annual holiday entitlement count as 8 hours for WTD purposes, any days over that count as zero hours, so I would have thought that your unpaid week off would count as zero hours too.
If no work done in that week and holiday is taken then the whole of that week counts 48 hrs for WTD
If any work is done in the week then each holiday shift counts as 8 hours for WTD
I just about understand drivers hours
The wtd I haven’t got a clue, but I cannot believe that holiday is counted as wtd…? My reason is simple I’m not working, therefore how does it count, or is this another cpc numpty telling this.
I have no idea of the legal standpoint of the WTD and unpaid holidays so cannot comment, but the link above saying that paid holiday do not count is wrong, simple as that. Mind you it is a government document so we shouldn’t be too surprised.
I have no idea of the legal standpoint of the WTD and unpaid holidays so cannot comment, but the link above saying that paid holiday do not count is wrong, simple as that. Mind you it is a government document so we shouldn’t be too surprised.
The information on that page appears to be correct - but it is not talking about Working Time Regs which apply to “mobile workers”.
There are two different sets of rules and they are different.
The Working Time Regulations that applies to most workers (and can be opted out of), doesn’t seem to specify that working time for holidays should be added to the calculation.
The Road Transport Working Time Regulations specifies that time must be added for the purpose of the calculation.
The effect seems to be that 48 hours is the maximum a mobile worker should be doing on average when actually working. In order to be able to calculate it effectively over a reference period hours are just allocated to non-working days / weeks for the sake of the average.
If you think about it not everyone gets the same holidays and holidays taken may or may not fall in a reference period, so it may explain why they chose this method. If they didn’t choose this method, they would most likely have to reduce the average to less than 48, so it is the same difference.
A day’s paid holiday counts as 8 hours, 5 consecutive days counts as 48.
For the purposes of calculating your WTD, any single days of holiday you take will be recorded as 8 hours of work. If you take 5 consecutive days of holiday, then a full week is recorded as being 48 hours. Any Holidays which you take beyond your contracted entitlement (usually 20 days) will be recorded as rest days and do not add any hours for your WTD
shullbit:
Its no wonder people get confused. hopefully things will eventually get simplified once we are finally rid of the E.U. and can make our own laws.
I cringe at statements like this… if you genuinely think the WTD is confusing how do you understand driver hours?
Darkside:
A day’s paid holiday counts as 8 hours, 5 consecutive days counts as 48.
For the purposes of calculating your WTD, any single days of holiday you take will be recorded as 8 hours of work. If you take 5 consecutive days of holiday, then a full week is recorded as being 48 hours. Any Holidays which you take beyond your contracted entitlement (usually 20 days) will be recorded as rest days and do not add any hours for your WTD
shullbit:
Its no wonder people get confused. hopefully things will eventually get simplified once we are finally rid of the E.U. and can make our own laws.
I cringe at statements like this… if you genuinely think the WTD is confusing how do you understand driver hours?
Which site did you copy and paste that from, please give them a credit.
Drivers hours are a piece of ■■■■ to understand
Perhaps neither the approach of the o/p or the employer is correct.
The employer is adding hours for periods where the employee is not under paid obligation or on paid leave.
However, the employee is wishing the periods during which he was under no paid obligation, included in the 17 week reference period.
Perhaps the clock should stop on the reference period until the employee returns? Now that I come to think about it I am leaning towards that now, although admittedly I am a complete rank amateur and this is just my interpretation.
In our contract someware it says days holidays count as 8 hrs towards wtd.
And don’t forget you could work 60 hours a week .but you then minus your breaks if you take 2 a day that’s 7.5 hours off. Brining it down to 52.5 .
Not sure if poa count 's as working time as well.
To me working time should be from when you clock on to clock off.
I have no idea of the legal standpoint of the WTD and unpaid holidays so cannot comment, but the link above saying that paid holiday do not count is wrong, simple as that. Mind you it is a government document so we shouldn’t be too surprised.
The information on that page appears to be correct - but it is not talking about Working Time Regs which apply to “mobile workers”.
