8wheels:
And as regards A frame trailers, I’d avoid them if for no other reason that every other plant / site or 99% of W&D outfits over here don’t run them. I’ll take that as a recommendation in itself.
Or maybe as in your case they just haven’t ( yet ) run into the problem of diminishing returns of high tare weight rigids. 
If I’ve read it right the original plan was to replace decreasing payload ability of an 8 wheeler rigid with a larger heavier trailer and a smaller lighter prime mover ?.But you were then rightly worried about the tail wagging the dog ?.
As opposed to the genset carrier shown in the pic.
That criterea is a game changer in which suddenly the extreme example of the Swiss 2 + 4 A frame makes sense.Or possibly in your case maybe a Chinese 6 3 + 4 A frame outfit.Which might possibly mean that genset carrier could then carry 6 not 5 units with the win win of maybe also not eventually also having to downsize its crane to stand still as tare weights increase at replacement time.
Ther relevant comparative numbers could be provided easily by a decent truck configurator calculator.
While the picture as shown says everything about the limitations of close coupled trailers v the Swiss examples.
Either that or possibly the 4 axle tractor unit for the crane and the 3 axle artic semi trailer is the obvious default option.
Punchy Dan:
adam277:
How is it exhausting? 
I guess for the average container jockey who never gets out of the cab it may be exhausting.
If you knew what you were talking about you wouldn’t comment.
Educate me. I’ve done exhausting work.
When truck drivers speak about exhausting work most of the time its having to strap up a curtain sider without the warehouse guys helping.
Truck drivers really dont know how good they got it.
adam277:
I’ve done exhausting work.
When truck drivers speak about exhausting work most of the time its having to strap up a curtain sider without the warehouse guys helping.
Truck drivers really dont know how good they got it.
To be fair mobile phone technology is a great thing.Best use it …to call out a mobile crane and operator to meet you on arrival at collection/delivery points. 
Flat plant haulage work is all about ropes/straps/chains not curtains that’s work enough.Although Dan obviously hasn’t used a cable type multi lift with a spreader bar attached to its cables and a cable attached to the bar as a winch to recover knackered plant.Another job I hated almost as much as using a Hiab crane on building materials deliveries.
8wheels:
Just had to look up pigs and dogs to translate that! Your dog trailers are a -frames, that’s something that’s not common here and I’m pretty sure would be too unwieldly needing far more space than we usually have available.
The spec we are looking at is a triaxle (pig) with 8t axles giving a theoretical payload of around 19t. Tracked excavators over 16t get wider so as well as getting potentially tail heavy you’d end up wide a wide load at the rear. The trailer is not built for this with slide out extensions so that’d not be something happening. With a triaxle you should be able to get enough space to place the machine so it balances nicely.
Today would have been the perfect use for such a setup as proposed. I had to do two round trips of an hour each way which could have easily been done it one in hit. Had I got everything out in one trip I would have been available for a movement of one coming back from fairly close by that needed doing sooner than I could get there. So my colleague in the low loader did that job.
What today took about 7 hours of driving by both vehicles could have been done by one in about 3 hours.
If you can gross 24 tonne on a close coupled/pig, tri axle group, you’re six tonne ahead of us and I can understand the popularity of that arrangement. We can load a three axle A frame/dog to 9 tonne + 16.5 tonne, ergo a 7.5 tonne advantage with the same number of tyres.
The disadvantage of the A frame/dog is maneuverability, but this can be overcome by locking the turntable.
schulz.com.au/products/trai … k-control/
It is advisable to only engage the lock on unsealed sites. Experienced operators can put a truck and dog, without locking the turntable, into places that a semi-trailer simply won’t fit.
Another advantage of a truck and dog is the ability to park the trailer next to the body, without unhitching. This has the potential to allow for the specification of a lighter crane as it won’t have to reach as far.
youtu.be/SdATrcd7RDY
Obviously your drawbar will be shorter, so the trailer will be closer to the body when jack-knifed.
adam277:
How is it exhausting?
I guess for the average container jockey who never gets out of the cab it may be exhausting.
8wheels has come here looking for advice, not an argument, so go ■■■■ stir elsewhere. Obviously you’ve never done this type of work or you’d know the concentration levels required, will fatigue an operator far more than a bit of manual labour can.
It is advisable to only engage the lock on unsealed sites
t
This outfit will be mostly on sealed roads, apart from large sites there is very little other opportunity for it to get off made up roads.
We run our 8 wheelers at 32t in UK, and 6w at 26t which is much higher than in AU, 28 / 23t?
I recall seeing 8 wheelers in Australia running fridges, box bodies and plenty of curtainside and flats. Over here you might occasionally see a flat or a curtainside but they are pretty rare. I’m pretty certain I’ve never seen a fridge or box body one though, At least not in the last 20 years or so.
8wheels:
It is advisable to only engage the lock on unsealed sites
t
This outfit will be mostly on sealed roads, apart from large sites there is very little other opportunity for it to get off made up roads.
We run our 8 wheelers at 32t in UK, and 6w at 26t which is much higher than in AU, 28 / 23t?
I recall seeing 8 wheelers in Australia running fridges, box bodies and plenty of curtainside and flats. Over here you might occasionally see a flat or a curtainside but they are pretty rare. I’m pretty certain I’ve never seen a fridge or box body one though, At least not in the last 20 years or so.
The main role for 8 wheelers is front-lift garbage, tipper and (cement) agitator although 10 wheelers are becoming more predominant in this sector. Otherwise 8 wheelers are generally fairly specialised such as Maccas and Hungry Jacks delivery, where a 19 metre trailer would cause traffic chaos.
Just for interest.
Star down under.:
8wheels:
It is advisable to only engage the lock on unsealed sites
t
This outfit will be mostly on sealed roads, apart from large sites there is very little other opportunity for it to get off made up roads.
We run our 8 wheelers at 32t in UK, and 6w at 26t which is much higher than in AU, 28 / 23t?
I recall seeing 8 wheelers in Australia running fridges, box bodies and plenty of curtainside and flats. Over here you might occasionally see a flat or a curtainside but they are pretty rare. I’m pretty certain I’ve never seen a fridge or box body one though, At least not in the last 20 years or so.
The main role for 8 wheelers is front-lift garbage, tipper and (cement) agitator although 10 wheelers are becoming more predominant in this sector. Otherwise 8 wheelers are generally fairly specialised such as Maccas and Hungry Jacks delivery, where a 19 metre trailer would cause traffic chaos.
1
Just for interest.
0
In an ideal world the typical NZ 8 wheeler rigid and 4/5 axle A frame drawbar trailer would be the default choice here given a sensible government.
As for locking a turntable. 
If someone really can’t reverse an A frame as well if not better than a close coupled type can/should they really be calling themselves Class1/C + E etc drivers ?.
It’s like a constant mesh manual box if they can’t ( learn to ) drive it then they really don’t belong anywhere behind the wheel of a truck.
I’d say in order of most common use for 8 wheelers here would be
Tippers, Roll off bin trucks, Hiabs, Mixers (both agitator & volumetric), beavertail plant without crane, vac tankers, fuel & liquid tankers,
Then a small number of flats, suction excavators, twin skips, curtainsides, silos and probably a few other bits and bobs.
We haven’t got 10 wheelers here yet as such, I know of a couple round here. One is a volumetric mixer so classed as mobile plant and not actually a HGV as such the other has a huge crane on it for working on power stations. On the road it can only run at 32t GVW but it’s not really built for hauling on the highway, just pick and carry duties on site.
Ireland have recently allowed 10w trucks so be interesting if they appear here one day.
Star down under.:
adam277:
How is it exhausting?
I guess for the average container jockey who never gets out of the cab it may be exhausting.
Obviously you’ve never done this type of work or you’d know the concentration levels required, will fatigue an operator far more than a bit of manual labour can.
Are you taking the ■■■■? 
You actually made me laugh.
I wasnt looking for an argument, I keep getting told I know nothing, yet no one wants to educate me.
I guess I just lack the brain power to understand it. Tell me when your using that crane is brain sweat an issue?
This you using a crane?
The majority of the crane work I have done has never really stressed me out. One job that stands out was inside a factory lifting the top of an industrial oven onto the framework of it being made. The lifted section was about 10’ square and weighed about 2t. I had to lift it on top of the framework which was about 8’ high. Simple enough except that factory unit was not very big and I had to nose up to the frame and lift the top over the cab. The top of the crane was very close to the roof and lights and from the manual controls I had very little visibility. Plus there were numerous people welding and grinding around the vicinity. I was pleased when that job was done and told them next time to book a vehicle with a rear mounted crane as it would be so much easier.
But other than that all the hard work has been slinging the loads, clambering up and down and trying to get a better vantage point to see what is going on.
adam277:
Tell me when your using that crane is brain sweat an issue?
This you using a crane?
Yep looks like the start of another day on Hiab work.Switch would say that it’s done me more brain damage than hand balling artics did spine damage.
8wheels:
But other than that all the hard work has been slinging the loads, clambering up and down and trying to get a better vantage point to see what is going on.
^ That repeatedly on local building delivery work in addition to worrying about a load of bricks or blocks all collapsing during the lift in the days when the bundle was just held together by banding and no pallets and decent shrink wrap that’s if it hadn’t all collapsed on route.Meaning all hand ball from that point.
All numerous times in a day very short runs between and yard labouring when not out delivering.
It was zb work.
As usual there needs to be loads of distance between collection and delivery points to increase the proportion of driving in the job.Palletised freight with tilt or curtainsider or box bodies was my default choice but plant and machinery ok if the distance is there minimising loading/unloading.But seriously leave the craning to mobile crane providers if the job says Hiab required then avoid.
Obviously getting rid of the crane and telling the customer that they will have to pay for a mobile crane to be provided would be a game changer.Surely trying to out compete each other based on which operation can fit the biggest Hiab on their truck is just a rod for your own back creating extra work for the driver and reducing payload capacity.
I’m sorry but personally I believe hiab work is one area where you can make decent money with a lorry.
A hiab can pick and carry it’s load, it can be hired for a couple of hours and is a one man job. A mobile crane to load a container on a flat will require another crane to lift if off. That’s stuff of the dark ages.
As well as the ordinary run of the mill moving materials, containers and the like I’ve done a whole load of different jobs with the crane.
Collected 25’ Christmas trees from the forest and installed them in town centres.
Delivered a red telephone box
Lifted a flak gun into a Lance missile carrier
Delivered safes and vault doors
Installed equipment kiosks
Came across a traffic jam one day where road was blocked as some ■■■■■■■■ has rolled a minidigger in the road and there was an almighty flap on as there was an ambulance stuck. No problem mate, give me five minutes and it’ll be gone.
Lifted plant into gardens otherwise accessible
Installed structural steel
Erected street lamps
This stuff is what makes the job different, it’s not for everyone and there are plenty who would rather sit behind the wheel for hours on end traipsing up and down the country. I do mostly local / regional work and occasional distance work. I’d far rather drive for a couple of hours and spent an hour or so loading or unloading before doing another couple of hours than drive for 4 tip off in 10 mins and then return home again.
It took all day in the rain to dismantle and load this and other stuff then in the evening I drove to the ferry ,next day in freezing temperatures we reassembled it all .
Nice pics Dan, bit of a squeeze getting that on. Bet you were relieved when it was! Probably more relieved when it was off though 
8wheels:
I’m sorry but personally I believe hiab work is one area where you can make decent money with a lorry.
A hiab can pick and carry it’s load, it can be hired for a couple of hours and is a one man job. A mobile crane to load a container on a flat will require another crane to lift if off. That’s stuff of the dark ages.
As well as the ordinary run of the mill moving materials, containers and the like I’ve done a whole load of different jobs with the crane.
Collected 25’ Christmas trees from the forest and installed them in town centres.
Delivered a red telephone box
Lifted a flak gun into a Lance missile carrier
Delivered safes and vault doors
Installed equipment kiosks
Came across a traffic jam one day where road was blocked as some [zb] has rolled a minidigger in the road and there was an almighty flap on as there was an ambulance stuck. No problem mate, give me five minutes and it’ll be gone.
Lifted plant into gardens otherwise accessible
Installed structural steel
Erected street lamps
This stuff is what makes the job different, it’s not for everyone and there are plenty who would rather sit behind the wheel for hours on end traipsing up and down the country. I do mostly local / regional work and occasional distance work. I’d far rather drive for a couple of hours and spent an hour or so loading or unloading before doing another couple of hours than drive for 4 tip off in 10 mins and then return home again.
At what point do you call that mainly a mobile crane operation not a road haulage one.Which is why you’re now running into the contradictions and conflicts between what is effectively the priority of a mobile crane.
As opposed to a truck to haul stuff.
As I said might as well concentrate on the crane if that’s the main priority so an 8 x 2 or 8 x 4 tractor unit, with a tri or four axle semi trailer if/when you also need to haul the crane load, sounds like the default option.Then you can concentrate on going large with the crane and no issues with a heavy close coupled trailer wagging a light prime mover.With the win win that it will probably make it easier to get STGO on it.
Punchy Dan:
0
It took all day in the rain to dismantle and load this and other stuff then in the evening I drove to the ferry ,next day in freezing temperatures we reassembled it all .
That outfit does look ‘awkward’ Dan it’ll win no beauty contests at least.
As opposed to.
diebolt.fr/en/families/trail … -trailer-1
Carryfast:
Punchy Dan:
It took all day in the rain to dismantle and load this and other stuff then in the evening I drove to the ferry ,next day in freezing temperatures we reassembled it all .
That outfit does look ‘awkward’ Dan it’ll win no beauty contests at least.
As opposed to.
diebolt.fr/en/families/trail … -trailer-1
Horses for courses Cf ,I’ve unloaded a dumper a bowser & pallets plus stillages of heras fencing with out unhitching.
