Working time infringement 6 hours

I am a new LGV driver and got flagged by employer for WTD infringement, my question is if I took a break of at least 15 minutes then finished work after 6 hours and put tacho on rest after 6 hours but before the 9 hours is that really an infringement, as although non mobile workers have to take 20 mins which can’t be taken at end of day it appears there is no definite guidance which says you cannot under any circumstances make up to 30 mins if you finish work shortly after 6 hours. Or should I have had another 15 minute break before removing tacho, then some other work, then logged off to make it legit. Not sure anyone can answer this question but putting it out there. Seems crazy to say you have to either take full 30 before logging off tacho, or stick around pushing buttons. Of course ideally just take 30 mins full stop. My job rarely enacts 4.5 hour rule as deliveries usually take long time and I’m not driving allot.

If your total working time is more than 6 hours but less than 9 hours you should have break/breaks totalling at-least 30 minutes, 15 minutes of that break should be started before exceeding 6 hours working time.

If your total working time is more than 9 hours you should have break/breaks totalling at-least 45 minutes.

Breaks for the working time regulations can be taken in separate parts of at-least 15 minutes each.

Breaks for the working time regulations should interrupt the working time, therefore cannot be taken at the immediate start or end of the shift.

So in answer to your question, yes what you did would get you an infringement for insufficient break during the shift.

edit:

nunners:
Or should I have had another 15 minute break before removing tacho, then some other work, then logged off to make it legit

That’s exactly what you should have done :wink:

What he ^^ said.

And please only read information from an approved web site ie

.Gov

tachograph:
If your total working time is more than 6 hours but less than 9 hours you should have break/breaks totalling at-least 30 minutes, 15 minutes of that break should be started before exceeding 6 hours working time.

If your total working time is more than 9 hours you should have break/breaks totalling at-least 45 minutes.

Breaks for the working time regulations can be taken in separate parts of at-least 15 minutes each.

Breaks for the working time regulations should interrupt the working time, therefore cannot be taken at the immediate start or end of the shift.

So in answer to your question, yes what you did would get you an infringement for insufficient break during the shift.

edit:

nunners:
Or should I have had another 15 minute break before removing tacho, then some other work, then logged off to make it legit

That’s exactly what you should have done :wink:

The mobile regs still don’t say you can’t take 2nd 15 minutes at end of shift, and misusing tacho is a criminal offence, so if im not doing work, that would be lying, and against tacho regs, infact a more serious infraction. I would challenge anyone to get VOSA or .GOV to categorically state you legally can’t take rest between shifts into account for 2nd 15 minutes. It would be illogical not to, though if you work for over 9 hours and havn’t had 30 minutes should be infraction, but again, the extra 15 to make 45 technically should be able to be taken at end of day also.

Would be interesting to know if anyone has been prosecuted for 6-9+ hour break issues after taking 2nd or 3rd break at end of day, and if so on what basis.

nunners:
The mobile regs still don’t say you can’t take 2nd 15 minutes at end of shift

Yes they do, regulation 7 of The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005 states that the breaks must interrupt the working time.

nunners:
and misusing tacho is a criminal offence, so if im not doing work, that would be lying

Sorry I’ve no idea what you’re talking about, no-ones suggested misusing the tachograph :confused:

nunners:
I would challenge anyone to get VOSA or .GOV to categorically state you legally can’t take rest between shifts into account for 2nd 15 minutes

I can’t answer for the DVSA or .GOV but I’ll accept the challenge :smiley:

As I said regulation 7 states that breaks must interrupt the working time therefore cannot be taken after the working time has finished.

nunners:
It would be illogical not to

It would be illogical to have a break after finishing work.

nunners:
though if you work for over 9 hours and havn’t had 30 minutes should be infraction, but again, the extra 15 to make 45 technically should be able to be taken at end of day also

There’s no reason why not having a 30 minute break before exceeding 9 hours working time should be an infringement if you are still working, there’s every reason why it’s not logical to have breaks after you’ve finished work.

nunners:
Would be interesting to know if anyone has been prosecuted for 6-9+ hour break issues after taking 2nd or 3rd break at end of day, and if so on what basis.

If by “break at end of day” you mean taking a break after finishing work I doubt many people would be daft enough to try it, so probably no prosecutions :smiley:

Surely this has to be a wind up isn’t it :smiley: :smiley:

tachograph:

nunners:
Or should I have had another 15 minute break before removing tacho, then some other work, then logged off to make it legit

That’s exactly what you should have done :wink:

On re-reading it I may have misunderstood what you meant by this, what you should have done was have a break then book some work then remove the driver card/chart.

nunners:
I would challenge anyone to get VOSA or .GOV to categorically state you legally can’t take rest between shifts into account for 2nd 15 minutes. It would be illogical not to, though if you work for over 9 hours and havn’t had 30 minutes should be infraction, but again, the extra 15 to make 45 technically should be able to be taken at end of day also.

Think about what a break is. The answer is in the question. A ‘break’ from work. If you have a 15 minute break during the last 15 minutes of your shift then you are, in effect, finishing 15 minutes early as opposed to having a break. If you’ve worked over 6 hours but only had a single 15 minute break during said work then you have not complied with the rules as your working time hasn’t been interrupted by the breaks.

To quote GV262 …

If your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes.

Breaks MUST interrupt work time and therefore cannot be taken at the immediate beginning and end of your shift.