Just crack on and work sat and sun or whenever your days off are and if you get pulled just tell them you only work a couple of days a week on the forks, that’s even if they ask.
ROG:
hkloss1:
2. Why are you saying I’ve already used my three reduced daily rests?
a. On Monday my daily rest was 9:40 hrs (yes-reduced)
b. On Tuesday my daily rest was 10 hrs (yes - reduced)
c. On Wednesday my daily rest was 11:10 ( so, not reduced)?Wednesday start at 6:30 am - finish at 20:00
24 hour period starts at 0630 so to fit in a regular daily rest before 0630 the next day the daily rest must start by 1930
The shift length was 13.5 hours so the max daily rest time which fits into the 24 hour period is 10.5 hours (13.5+10.5=24)
The rest taken from 0630 to 0710 (40 mins) thursday morning does not count as rest for the regs because it is outside the 24 hour period
Thank you ROG for explaining this. It all now makes sense. I was away for the last couple of days so I couldn’t reply to your post.
All you work and daily rest needs to end within 24 hours period from the time you’ve inserted your digi card into UTC, now I got it.
You can go three times per week over your 13hrs working time , it doesn’t have to be 15 hrs, as long as it is more than 13 hrs and your daily rest can not be shorter than 9hrs three times per week.
I might have some other questions as all this working time directive for mobile workers is difficult to understand at first, or maybe I’m thick, but I’m getting there.
Thanks once again
hkloss1:
All you work and daily rest needs to end within 24 hours period from the time you’ve inserted your digi card into UTC, now I got it.
Not quite correct, the 24 hour period starts at the end of the last daily/weekly rest period, or the start of the shift if you prefer to put it that way.
For most people the shift will start before they put the driver card in the tachograph, that’s one of the reasons we do manual entries.
By the way, you insert the driver card into the tachograph, UTC is a universal time format that’s used by the tachograph 
hkloss1:
You can go three times per week over your 13hrs working time , it doesn’t have to be 15 hrs, as long as it is more than 13 hrs and your daily rest can not be shorter than 9hrs three times per week.
A reduced daily rest period is any rest period that’s more than 9 hours but less than 11 hours, so any time you do spread-over of more than 13 hours from the start of the shift to the end of the shift it’s a reduced daily rest period.
You can go over the 13 hour spread-over from the start to the end of the shift (have a reduced daily rest period) 3 times between weekly rest periods, for a lot of drivers that’s not the same as 3 time a week.
Thanks Tachograph for clarifying that.
For some reason I’ve always thought UTC is a name for the tacho unit (as for U), lol.
What do you mean by this: " You can go over the 13 hour spread-over from the start to the end of the shift (have a reduced daily rest period) 3 times between weekly rest periods, for a lot of drivers that’s not the same as 3 time a week." To me it looks the same? 
I have to say all these rules as clear as mud, and I reckon there should be some exercise book for drivers so they could go through diffrent scenarios and examples to make them understand these rules.
hkloss1:
What do you mean by this: " You can go over the 13 hour spread-over from the start to the end of the shift (have a reduced daily rest period) 3 times between weekly rest periods, for a lot of drivers that’s not the same as 3 time a week." To me it looks the same?
A week for the drivers hours regulations is midnight Sunday to the following midnight Sunday, so to say that you can have 3 reduced daily rest periods in a week means that you can have 3 from Sunday midnight to Sunday midnight.
Because you can have 3 reduced daily rest periods between 2 weekly rest periods it means that if a driver works, say Thursday to Monday, he can have 3 reduced daily rest periods between Thursday and Monday (not the same as having 3 in the fixed week).
Because the regulations say that you can have 3 reduced daily rest periods between 2 weekly rest periods, it is possible to have as many as 6 reduced weekly rest periods in a fixed week if you have a reduced weekly rest period mid-week.
hkloss1:
I have to say all these rules as clear as mud, and I reckon there should be some exercise book for drivers so they could go through diffrent scenarios and examples to make them understand these rules.
Most things seem complicated when you’re not used to them, but they get easier to understand in time.
so, if you are working from Thursday midnight to Thursday midnight the next week, you can have 6 reduced daily rests?
hkloss1:
so, if you are working from Thursday midnight to Thursday midnight the next week, you can have 6 reduced daily rests?
You can’t work Thursday to Thursday without at-least a reduced weekly rest period to break it up, you can only work six 24 hour periods (144 hours) then you must have either a regular weekly rest period or a reduced weekly rest period.
So if you started at midnight Thursday after a weekly rest period you would need to start a new weekly rest period no later than Wednesday midnight.
But you could have reduced daily rests on say Monday Tuesday and Wednesday have a reduced weekly rest on Thursday, then have reduced daily rests on Friday Saturday and Sunday, that’s 6 reduced daily rests in a fixed week and it’s legal.
edit:
I’d made a mistake and corrected it 
“You can’t work Thursday to Thursday without at-least a reduced weekly rest period to break it up” - that’s because you need to have a weekly rest, at least reduced weekly rest after 6 consecutive 24 hrs periods, which after Thursday midnight (assuming you started your week on Thursday midnight, and assuming you had your weekly rest before Thursday midnight, is that right?).
What exactly did you mean by saying “reduced weekly period to break it up”?
Did you mean I needed to take a weekly rest somewhere in the middle between Thursday midnight and next Thursday midnight, say weekend, or you meant my weekly rest after completing my 6 24 hrs work periods?
I think you actually meant I needed to take my weekly period after completing my 6 consecutive 24 hrs work periods, which is after Wednesday midnight as you wrote and there is no need to be taking any weekly rest in the middle of that 6 consecutive 24 hrs work periods.
Sorry, for pesting you again, bu just had to clarify this.
You can’t work Thursday to Thursday without at-least a reduced weekly rest period to break it up
hkloss1:
that’s because you need to have a weekly rest, at least reduced weekly rest after 6 consecutive 24 hrs periods
That’s right
hkloss1:
What exactly did you mean by saying “reduced weekly period to break it up”?
I think you actually meant I needed to take my weekly period after completing my 6 consecutive 24 hrs work periods, which is after Wednesday midnight as you wrote and there is no need to be taking any weekly rest in the middle of that 6 consecutive 24 hrs work periods
That’s right, if you started work at midnight Thursday you would need to start a new weekly rest period no later than midnight Wednesday.
By the way, I made a mistake in the last paragraph of my last post which I’ve now edited.
Thanks to ROG for pointing it out to me.
Thanks Tachograph for your help and for ROG’s help from behind the scene.
I’ve been a driver for just over a couple of months so I guess I might not know everything, but you might be or might not be surprised to learn that after talking to some of very, very experienced drivers that work with me and asking them questions like these I’ve realised they actually know know less then me and they’ve class one drivers for like 10 - 20 years.
How did you learn all of this, is there any book that goes through some examples or you’ve done some WTD course as part of your periodic CPC?
Thanks
hkloss1:
Thanks Tachograph for your help and for ROG’s help from behind the scene.
I’ve been a driver for just over a couple of months so I guess I might not know everything, but you might be or might not be surprised to learn that after talking to some of very, very experienced drivers that work with me and asking them questions like these I’ve realised they actually know know less then me and they’ve class one drivers for like 10 - 20 years.
How did you learn all of this, is there any book that goes through some examples or you’ve done some WTD course as part of your periodic CPC?
Thanks
I learnt most from reading the regs as well as posts on this site and what I misread some of those on this site put me right even if it did often take some time to do so !!
The three members of this site I personally regard as being well up on the regs are in this order
Geebee45 - ex VOSA (senior ?)TE
Coffeeholic
Tachograph
Thanks ROG
Will keep my eyes pealed off for all info regarding the rules, and if you do not mind I’ll be coming back to ask some other questions as I reckon there is nothing worst than poorly informed and educated drivers.
The less we drivers know the rules and regulations the easier target we become for unscrupulous employers to be used and abused, and punished by VOSA and other authorities for not knowing respecting the law.
Thanks
hkloss1:
Thanks Tachograph for your help and for ROG’s help from behind the scene.
I’ve been a driver for just over a couple of months so I guess I might not know everything, but you might be or might not be surprised to learn that after talking to some of very, very experienced drivers that work with me and asking them questions like these I’ve realised they actually know know less then me and they’ve class one drivers for like 10 - 20 years.
How did you learn all of this, is there any book that goes through some examples or you’ve done some WTD course as part of your periodic CPC?
Thanks
You have to bear in mind that some drivers do the same job for years, and know only as much as they need to know to do the job they’re doing.
I’m not aware of any books other than VOSA’s Rules on Drivers Hours and Tachographs and regulations like (EC) 561/2006
It is difficult to put the regs in a different simpler way without losing the legal meaning but the one thing that can be done is to give examples for a particular situation which can help a driver to understand them
hkloss1:
FarnboroughBoy11:
hkloss1:
Guys , a question here, but please only reply if you know it 100%Lets say, If I reduce my daily rest on monday to 9 hrs then on tuesday to 9 hrs ( basicaly go below 11 hours between finishing my [zb] on monday and starting on tuesday and between finishing my shift on tuesday and starting my shift on wednesday, spending at work around 14 - 15 hrs each of those days) and then I do 13.5 hrs on wednesday but get 11 hrs rest that night and start on thursday morning after having 11 hrs rest. How many hours am I allowed to work on thursday and friday?
When I say work, I mean time between inserting my digi card into UTC and pulling it out from UTC at the end of the shift, including POA and breaks taken on that given day.I’ve heard somewhere that I am allowed to spend at work three up to 15 hrs shifts per week, not sure if that is true and two 12 hrs shifts.
Can anyone knowledgeable answer these questions , please.Thank you
You can reduce your daily rest to 9 hours, 3 times a week.
If you do more than a 13 hour shift then it counts as a reduce daily rest (9 hours) no matter how much rest you actually have.
Hi FarnboroughBoy11
Thanks for your reply.
Would you be willing to attach a link to some official document (instruction) that would mention “If you do more than a 13 hour shift then it counts as a reduce daily rest (9 hours) no matter how much rest you actually have”?
I’ve checked some online but couldn’t see that anywhere.Thanks
No need for him to link, he speaks the truth. Lots of people forget there’s only 24 hours in a day. How can you have an 11 hour rest in a day if you’ve worked 13.5 hours. You could rest for 20 years after a 13.5 hour day but the fact remains that in that 24 hour day you only rested for 10.5 hours when it should’ve been 11.
Another question here if you do not mind:
Today I started , lets say at 04:30 am and finished at 19:27
Tomorrow I’m starting at 06:15 am and lets say will finish at 17:45pm
Question: What time could I start on Wednesday at the earliest?
at 06:16 am on Wednesday morning?
Thanks
hkloss1:
Another question here if you do not mind:Today I started , lets say at 04:30 am and finished at 19:27 (Reduced daily rest period)
Tomorrow I’m starting at 06:15 am and lets say will finish at 17:45pm
Question: What time could I start on Wednesday at the earliest?
at 06:16 am on Wednesday morning?
Thanks
Working on the assumption that today was the first reduced daily rest period since your last weekly rest period, If you finish at 17:45 Tuesday you can start again no earlier than 02:45 Wednesday.
That would be your second reduced daily rest period, that is, as I said assuming that you haven’t had any before today.
However if you do not have any reduced daily rest periods available you could not legally start until 04:45 Wednesday.
ROG:
I learnt most from reading the regs
You should of just given him the link to them then.
ROG:
The three members of this site I personally regard as being well up on the regs are in this order
Geebee45 - ex VOSA (senior ?)TE
Coffeeholic
Tachograph
Strange that because my top three was you, Limeyphil and tobyabc123 or whatever he is.
Thank you Tachograph for clarifying that.
Yes, yesterday was my first reduced daily rest.
I actually thought I would need to apply a 24 hrs period to my today’s shift starting at 06:15 am, and no matter what time I finish, (as long as I do not work more than 15 hrs off course) I would still need to give it 24 hrs, and could start at 06:16 the following day (Wednesday), at the earliest.
One more question :
Lets say I’ve just finished my 45 mins break, which ended at 12:00 and as soon as it ended I started driving and other work, but at 12:30 I stopped and 12:30 and switched to POA. I restarted driving and other work at 14:00.
Question: What time at the latest do I need to take my 30 mins break, is it before 18:00 or before 19:30 as my 6 hrs working time was extended by that 1:30 hrs of POA, taken between 12:30 and 14:00?
Thanks
hkloss1:
One more question :
Lets say I’ve just finished my 45 mins break, which ended at 12:00 and as soon as it ended I started driving and other work, but at 12:30 I stopped and 12:30 and switched to POA. I restarted driving and other work at 14:00.
Question: What time at the latest do I need to take my 30 mins break, is it before 18:00 or before 19:30 as my 6 hrs working time was extended by that 1:30 hrs of POA, taken between 12:30 and 14:00?Thanks
The 45 min break you took covers RTD for the whole of the shift but there is still the rule that no more than 6 hours of driving+other work can be done without at least a 15 (not 30) min break
Form 12 to 1230 you had 30 mins of the 6 hours used up
POA from 1230 to 1400 does not count for RTD working time so a 15 min break would need to be started no later than 1930