Hi everybody, could you please help resolve a point of discussion at work. Can a company/organisation hold a vote on wether to “opt out” of the WTD by majority verdict with the majority verdict being enforced?
Can a majority decide if the minority will have to opt in/out just because the majority want it that way?
In plain speak, can a group of people decide how many hours I can or cannot work just because it suits THEM to work those hours?
If somebody wants to work the minimum hours then fair enough thats up to them, and if I wish to work all the hours I can to provide for my family and have a reasonable standard of living then that should be upto me.
Does a majority vote mean that everybody else has to follow suit?
Surely it is a personal issue and up to the individual.
Hope you can shed some light on this extremely grey area.
It is up to you not a bunch of other’s, if you only want to work 48 hour’s a week that is your decision, and you cannot be persecuted by your company in any way
bullitt:
Personally I want to work as much as I can and have no wish to be dictated to as to how many hours I can work.
Just wondered if there was a legal stipulation that says otherwise.
Yep, there is. It’s the Working Time Directive and you won’t be able to work as many hours as you like when it comes in on the 23rd March 2005, there is no opt out the way it stands at the moment. 48 hours per week will be the limit. This is an average over a 16 week period so you can do more than this if you want to but counting back over a 16 week period you must average 48 or less.
The only people with an opt out, again as it stands at the moment, will be owner drivers who will be exempt until at least 2009 when it will be reviewed. This doesn’t mean you can get round it by just going self employed as there are pretty strict guidelines as to what qualifies you for the exemption.
Thanks Niel, was just wondering if, prior to 23 March 2005, where an organisation or company has already adopted the WTD hours restrictions as “company policy”, can a "majority"can vote to accept the restricted hours thus forcing the “minority” to follow suit!
Coffeeholic:
there is no opt out the way it stands at the moment. 48 hours per week will be the limit. This is an average over a 16 week period so you can do more than this if you want to but counting back over a 16 week period you must average 48 or less.
This is how I understand the upcoming law. No opt out.
That’s what I meant by it not being as easy as just going ‘self-employed’ to get round the thing. The rules are going to be pretty strict on that one I think.
the key word here is “several”, as in two is not, but three is several, legally speaking, so how many o/d’s work for three different customers through the course of a week??
Im raving about this WTD garbage! If I want to work whatever hours, I dont want some suit telling me I cant, I mean, its human rights, free to work 2 or 15 hours a day! What the hell is happening to freedom of choice! Cheeky ZB’s the lot of em! Well, Im hoping theres going to be a way round it, legal or otherwise!
bullitt:
Thanks Niel, was just wondering if, prior to 23 March 2005, where an organisation or company has already adopted the WTD hours restrictions as “company policy”, can a "majority"can vote to accept the restricted hours thus forcing the “minority” to follow suit!
Thanks for the info.
Bullitt.
does your company Garentee overtime in your contract of employment? if not then they can just not give you any overtime, the hours are not restricted just your overtime
I believe that the working time directive will be the best thing that has happened to our industry in 20 years.Two decades ago we worked under very different rules.No more than 262 miles a day, a break after 6 hours from your start time, eleven hours off no reduction, and other rules.This legislation will take us back to where we were then.The reason the MANAGEMENT do not like it is because we [the drivers] will be in short supply. Extra drivers will be required to cover the reduced hours we will incure due to the WTD.They will have to start manageing us! They used to in the past.This is the wake up call our industry has been waiting for.The drivers just have to keep saying to the gaffers,if I earned £23000 last year for averaging 63 hours a week. Then I want £23000 for a 48 hour week.Please remember they never complained when the overtime was there, did they?They would have you work 100 hours a week if the law would let us.I bet there are some drivers out there who would work it to! [/b]
I have just enrolled on TruckNet specifically because of concerns that drivers are expressing within our company about the WTD. Having read some of the comments it appears that there is quite a bit of confusion about the impending legislation, which I would like to try to clarify.
The WTD as it applies to mobile workers will be known as the Road Transport Directive (RTD), and it contains different rules to that of the WTD, so anybody reading the WTD will read incorrect information.
The government currently has a consultation paper on the DTI website, www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_frei … 024812.pdf called 'Implementing the working time directive for mobile workers, and it contains full details of the RTD. There are 33 pages in all, and explanation is given on how the government proposes to implement the legislation. As a consultation paper there are specific questions that it asks of anyone in the industry, and there is a response form already written for anyone who chooses to comment. This is really important - THE CONSULTATION PERIOD CLOSES ON FRIDAY 23rd JANUARY 2004 - so if anybody wants to add their views there isn’t much time left.
Within the consultation document there is information on what the government may allow as derogations, and the response form asks for comments on how these should be applied. There is a real possibility of the people that will be most affected by the legislation, lorry drivers, to have some positive input, so I’d advise not wasting any time.
Just in case anybody doesn’t have time to read the consultation document, here’s a brief guide of the main provisions that are likely to become Law in March 2005 - we won’t know the final details until March 2004.
Working week limit will be 48-hours, calculated over a four-month (17 week period). The government have asked if the industry would prefer the reference period to be extended to 26-weeks, which should allow a greater degree of flexibility. Up to 60-hours may be worked in a single week, provided that the average 48-hours is not exceeded throughout the reference period.
There are entitlements for breaks and ‘periods of availability’ that may not be included in the 48-hours. This may provide some flexibility for drivers to actually work, and be paid, more than 48-hours.
THERE WILL BE NO OPT-OUT for mobile workers.
Night workers will be restricted to 10-hours working time in any 24-hour period. The hours that a worker will be deemed to become a night worker have yet to be set, probably 00:00 to 04:00-hours, but will apply to mobile workers if theye encroach any part of the period. this is different to the WTD. The government is asking the industry if the night worker restriction should be extended to 12-hours.
The self-employed will not be subject to the RTD until March 2009.
The requirements for the RTD are additional to EU Drivers Hours Regulations.
I have printed off the DTI consultation document and provided a response on behalf of my company. I have also attended a meeting at the British Precast Concrete Federation to assist compiling a response on behalf of that sector of the haulage industry, in conjunction with the Quarry Products Association.
I believe that this legislation is an invasion of human rights and is discriminatory toward lorry drivers because they will be the only sector of British industry that will not be able to opt-out. I also believe it to be wasteful and to create unnecessary administration to create another piece of legislation which overrides that already in place and will continue to be in place - the EU Driver’s Hours Regulations.
Everybody would love to be able to work no more than 48-hours, but if there is something that requires that little bit extra money, everybody should have the opportunity to work more hours to earn it - without the EU telling them that they can’t.
Just checked the DTI website and couldn’t find Working Time Directive for mobile workers; perhaps its been moved, or maybe I was wrong. Look at www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_frei … 024812.pdf
The whole document is there.
Just checked the DTI website and couldn’t find Working Time Directive for mobile workers; perhaps its been moved, or maybe I was wrong. Look at