ROG the regulations say that if you work more than 9 hours you should have a 45 minute break which can be divided into breaks of no less than 15 minutes, at least a 15 minute break should be taken during or immediately after 6 hours of work, the 45 minute break/breaks should interrupt the working time not necessarily the nine hours.
So you can do 6 hours work, 15 mins break and then work for how long before you HAVE to take another break?
The maximum length of time you should work without a break is 6 hours so in practice you could work for 6 hours then have a 15 minute break, work another 6 hours and have another 15 minute break then have another 15 minute break some time before the end of shift, obviously this isn’t taking into account the driver hours regulations.
ROG the regulations say that if you work more than 9 hours you should have a 45 minute break which can be divided into breaks of no less than 15 minutes, at least a 15 minute break should be taken during or immediately after 6 hours of work, the 45 minute break/breaks should interrupt the working time not necessarily the nine hours.
So you can do 6 hours work, 15 mins break and then work for how long before you HAVE to take another break?
The maximum length of time you should work without a break is 6 hours so in practice you could work for 6 hours then have a 15 minute break, work another 6 hours and have another 15 minute break then have another 15 minute break some time before the end of shift, obviously this isn’t taking into account the driver hours regulations.
It must be the way that I am reading it then, as I see it, it says that a working time total of 9 hour must have a 45 min break in it or 3x 15 etc making the total. 6 hours worked 15 mins break then 3 hours worked 30 mins break or else the 9 hours of total working time has been breached
. mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break,
. if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes,
. if your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes
There is no 9 hour rule, if you work a total of 10 hours then you have 10 hours working time, if you work for a total of 11 hours then you have 11 hours working time, if you work a total of 12 hours then you have 12 hours working time and this is the period that should be interupted by the 45 minute break.
If you work for a total of 9 hours then you have 9 hours working time and this period should be interrupted by a 30 minute break.
In all cases 15 minutes of the break should be taken during or immediately after 6 hours of work.
you start drive time, you are now under tacho laws ,you take hour rest after one hour drive, you then work a futher ten hours with only one 15 minute break,you are now illegle .you failed to take 45 mins break after five and half hours whitch should have incured other work or you would be over your four and half hour drive limit
ROG:
1 Hour Driving
1 Hour Break
5 Hours Work
15 Minute Break
5 Hours Work
End of Duty
If you work for a total of 9 hours then you have 9 hours working time and this period should be interrupted by a 30 minute break.
So the above 10 hours is illegal as it is over 9 hours and only has a 15 min break interrupting it
No it’s not illegal. You need to read the bit you quoted carefully, it says ‘a total of 9 hours’ not a 9 hour period of work.
If he works between 6 and 9 hours he must have breaks totalling 30 minutes and interrupting that period, so in the case of a 9 hour shift the breaks must interrupt the shift and not be taken at the end of it.
If he works more than 9 hours he must have breaks totalling 45 minutes and interrupting that period, not taken at the end of the shift. In the scenario outlined above he has worked a 12 hour shift and taken breaks interrupting it which total 1 hour 15 minutes, 30 minutes more than the legal requirement. The only other requirement he has to observe is not to work more than 6 hours without a break, he hasn’t as the longest period of uninterrupted work is 5 hours.
There is no rolling 9 hour period, The shift length is measured from start of shift and is not reset by taking a break, which is what you are doing by counting the 10 hours he has worked and saying it is illegal as it is over 9 hours. You can’t take that bit in isolation you have to count right from the start of the shift and take into account the break of 1 hour. In fact that 1 hour break satisfied the amount of rest required for a shift in excess of 9 hours, the 15 minute break was only required to avoid working more than 6 hours without a break.
ROG:
It must be the way that I am reading it then,
Sure is.
ROG:
as I see it, it says that a working time total of 9 hour must have a 45 min break in it or 3x 15 etc making the total.
No, a 9 hour shift requires 30 minutes of break, a shift in excess of 9 hours requires 45 minutes.
ROG:
6 hours worked 15 mins break then 3 hours worked 30 mins break
This would be illegal as the breaks must interrupt the shift. By taking 30 minutes, although only 15 is required, at the end of the shift it isn’t interrupting it. This means only a 15 minute break has been taken for the 9 hour shift, 15 minutes less than required.
ROG:
or else the 9 hours of total working time has been breached
You are really misunderstanding the meaning of the word total here, it is 9 hours of total shift time, i.e. from when you start work to when you finish, not a 9 hour segment of a shift
I was thinking that the WTD was designed to stop people working long sustained shifts without having a reasonable lenght break during those shifts which would have been the case if they had said that a worker cannot work a certain length of shift time in total without having a set minimum break relevant to that time.
ROG:
I was thinking that the WTD was designed to stop people working long sustained shifts without having a reasonable lenght break during those shifts which would have been the case if they had said that a worker cannot work a certain length of shift time in total without having a set minimum break relevant to that time.
Errr, they do say exactly that.
ROG:
a worker cannot work a certain length of shift time in total
6 Hours.
ROG:
without having a set minimum break relevant to that time.
15 minutes.
They then added to that by saying for a shift between 6 and 9 hours the worker should have breaks totalling a minimum of 30 minutes and a shift longer than 9 hours breaks totalling a minimum of 45 minutes.
ROG:
I was thinking that the WTD was designed to stop people working long sustained shifts without having a reasonable lenght break during those shifts which would have been the case if they had said that a worker cannot work a certain length of shift time in total without having a set minimum break relevant to that time.
Errr, they do say exactly that.
ROG:
a worker cannot work a certain length of shift time in total
6 Hours.
ROG:
without having a set minimum break relevant to that time.
15 minutes.
They then added to that by saying for a shift between 6 and 9 hours the worker should have breaks totalling a minimum of 30 minutes and a shift longer than 9 hours breaks totalling a minimum of 45 minutes.
but they did not manage to stop a worker from doing 10 hours with only a 15 min break in that 10 hours which, in my opinion, they should have done and I believe was the original intention but the EU cocked it up - as usual.
i honestly can not believe i can legally work 5 hours have 15 minutes break then work another three or four hours i have the rules infront of me and i can not see how you can do any more than 5 hour drive and other work without a 45 min break you will be telling me you can send kids up chimnys next
fuse:
i honestly can not believe i can legally work 5 hours have 15 minutes break then work another three or four hours i have the rules infront of me and i can not see how you can do any more than 5 hour drive and other work without a 45 min break you will be telling me you can send kids up chimnys next
Thats what I was getting at in my last post - I believe they were trying to stop what you have said but cocked up the wording.
ROG:
I was thinking that the WTD was designed to stop people working long sustained shifts without having a reasonable lenght break during those shifts which would have been the case if they had said that a worker cannot work a certain length of shift time in total without having a set minimum break relevant to that time.
Errr, they do say exactly that.
ROG:
a worker cannot work a certain length of shift time in total
6 Hours.
ROG:
without having a set minimum break relevant to that time.
15 minutes.
They then added to that by saying for a shift between 6 and 9 hours the worker should have breaks totalling a minimum of 30 minutes and a shift longer than 9 hours breaks totalling a minimum of 45 minutes.
but they did not manage to stop a worker from doing 10 hours with only a 15 min break in that 10 hours which, in my opinion, they should have done and I believe was the original intention but the EU cocked it up - as usual.
True, but in this scenario he had 1 hour 15 minutes break in the 12 hours 15 minutes he was at work, the breaks were just not distributed through the shift very well. I would suggest this is an unusual work pattern as not many places would schedule 1 hour break after just 1 hour work then only 15 minutes for the rest of the shift.
The other problem is one of context and only taking a segment of the shift into consideration. If you hear - “He did 10 hours work with only 15 minutes break” - then it sounds bad. If you hear - “He had breaks totalling 1 hour 15 minutes during his shift” - then it doesn’t sound so bad, it could be 15 minute morning coffee break, 45 minutes lunch, 15 minutes afternoon coffee break. Both are describing the same scenario but one sounds a lot better than the other.
fuse:
i honestly can not believe i can legally work 5 hours have 15 minutes break then work another three or four hours i have the rules infront of me and i can not see how you can do any more than 5 hour drive and other work without a 45 min break you will be telling me you can send kids up chimnys next
Well you could drive for 2 hours, no tacho break required yet as not reached 4.5 hours driving. Other work for 4 hours, 15 minute WTD break required as 6 hours working time reached. Drive for 2.5 hours, further 30 minute break required for tacho rules. 8.5 hours work with only 15 minutes break interrupting it yet legal for both sets of regulations.
fuse:
i honestly can not believe i can legally work 5 hours have 15 minutes break then work another three or four hours i have the rules infront of me and i can not see how you can do any more than 5 hour drive and other work without a 45 min break you will be telling me you can send kids up chimnys next
Thats what I was getting at in my last post - I believe they were trying to stop what you have said but cocked up the wording.
You are also fixating on this 5 hour work, 15 minutes break, 5 hours work thing. This as a shift on its own would not be legal under the WTD. As a standalone shift there would need to be another 30 minutes of break in there somewhere, it is a shift of over 9 hours so breaks totalling 45 minutes are required. It has only arisen in this scenario because of the odd way the breaks were distributed through the shift, with a 1 hour break after only 1 hour of work.
Coffeeholic:
You are also seem to be fixating on this 5 hour work, 15 minutes break, 5 hours work thing. This as a shift on its own would not be legal under the WTD. As a standalone shift there would need to be another 30 minutes of break in there somewhere, it is a shift of over 9 hours so breaks totalling 45 minutes are required. It has only arisen in this scenario because of the odd way the breaks were distributed through the shift, with a 1 hour break after only 1 hour of work.
I know - the fact is that due to the wording that this type of senario is allowed and I dont believe that was the original intention
well i am glad your not my boss coffeholic ican just imagine it ( AH WELL THETS ANOTHER DAY OVER ,GET YER BACKSIDE BACK IN THAT TRUCK YOU HAVE 5 HOURS LEFT YET
fuse:
well i am glad your not my boss coffeholic ican just imagine it ( AH WELL THETS ANOTHER DAY OVER ,GET YER BACKSIDE BACK IN THAT TRUCK YOU HAVE 5 HOURS LEFT YET
It’s not Coffees’ fault - he dont make the rules
Are you sure that you are not confusing driving rules and WTD rules as you keep referring to driving the lorry
fuse:
well i am glad your not my boss coffeholic ican just imagine it ( AH WELL THETS ANOTHER DAY OVER ,GET YER BACKSIDE BACK IN THAT TRUCK YOU HAVE 5 HOURS LEFT YET
It’s not Coffees’ fault - he dont make the rules
Very true ROG. I don’t even necessarily agree with all parts of them, I’m only explaining them and attempting to answer peoples queries. If someone asks a question I have to try to answer it by saying what the rules do and do not allow, otherwise I am not answering the question correctly. However, just because the rules make something possible doesn’t mean you have to do it.
Fuse is typical of a driver who doesn’t understand the rules yet swear black is white none the less. When given evidence they are wrong they don’t actually acknowledge that fact, instead they just have a pop and make stupid comments to hide the fact they have been a bit of a numpty.
- and shot 
- he dont make the rules