romik:
Still don’t get it LOL how many hours in total (both driving and non-driving) can an HGV driver do during 1 week cycle? Could someone please explain.
Its all about rest periods not the time on shift
Once you get the idea that X amount of rest has to be taken within certain periods then you will be able to answer your own questions on this in the future
The more I read about it, the more questions I have. Example, HGV drivers can’t opt out of the 48 hour average working week (according to GOV.UK site), but here is my question. Other sectors may be allowed to opt out, so according to my logic:
Hours in a week 168 (24x7).
HGV total weekly and daily rests based on 45 weekly and 3 reduced & 2 normal is 98 hours rest (including 45 minute x 5 days breaks)
168 - 98 = 70 hours per week available to work in week after rest periods.
Question: May I work 48 hours per week as a HGV driver and 22 hours as a fork lift operator? Every week that is (hypothetically speaking).
romik:
Question: May I work 48 hours per week as a HGV driver and 22 hours as a fork lift operator? Every week that is (hypothetically speaking).
This is where I have had discussions and different points of view
To me the 48 is under the RT(WT)R and the 22 is under the WTD and they do not get added together for the working time regs but the 22 counts as other work for the tacho regs so cannot count as rest
That is just the way I interpret it so do not take as definitive
The way i understood is:
5am be at the garage (daily checks papers etc) 6 am start driving. 7 pm back to garage. Leave work 8 pm. That means 15 hrs of work. 9 hrs rest. 5 days a week end week starting 8 pm weekly break. 8 pm sndey start working again. Fryday 11 am finish ( 5 24 hrs periods) sunday 11 am work 10 hrs 9 pm finish ( means i can do like 6 shifts) than monday 6 am i can stary again.
M i right?
sfantu:
The way i understood is:
5am be at the garage (daily checks papers etc) 6 am start driving. 7 pm back to garage. Leave work 8 pm. That means 15 hrs of work. 9 hrs rest. 5 days a week end week starting 8 pm weekly break. 8 pm sndey start working again. Fryday 11 am finish ( 5 24 hrs periods) sunday 11 am work 10 hrs 9 pm finish ( means i can do like 6 shifts) than monday 6 am i can stary again.M i right?
Working time for the RT(WT)R does not include breaks or POA
Also you can only have 3 reduced daily rests between 2 weekly rests
A 15 hour shift only leaves a 9 hour reduced daily rest unless a break/rest of at least 3 hours has been taken in one go in that shift to make a split daily rest
But… on the digicard are only 13 registered… first and last hour are not registered on tacho. So legally in my example work starts 6 am finishes 7 pm which leaves 11 hrs rest.
sfantu:
But… on the digicard are only 13 registered… first and last hour are not registered on tacho. So legally in my example work starts 6 am finishes 7 pm which leaves 11 hrs rest.
THAT IS ILLEGAL
All duties from start of shift to finish of shift must legally be recorded
So how can anyone check this? I work on tacho 13 but agecy pays me for 15 hrs!!! I can consider that a bonus…
sfantu:
So how can anyone check this? I work on tacho 13 but agecy pays me for 15 hrs!!! I can consider that a bonus…
You can get paid for 24 hours but only work 10 - that is legal if all the 10 hours are recorded
What you get paid for has no bearing on the regs
You know the rules so if you want to work for 2 hours unrecorded then don’t complain if you get caught and fined heavy for it
Remember that they can fine you for every individual infringement so that could mount up to a lot of dosh!!
so probably i got this wrong.
for example
start work 5 am. start driving 6 am drive 2 hr than 2 hrs other work( not driving ie: unloading) drive 2.5 hrs 45 min break. drive 2 hrs than again 2hrs other work unloading again. than drive 2.5 hrs back. means im back 7.45 pm. that’s like 9 hrs driving and the rest of hrs breaks and other work…
if i am not right can anyone explain how 12 hrs shifts are advertise? or how come 90% of the lorry drivers that i know(and i know plenty lolz) are working like 14-15 hrs a day?
im in a little bit doubt here!!!
sfantu:
so probably i got this wrong.for example
start work 5 am. start driving 6 am drive 2 hr than 2 hrs other work( not driving ie: unloading) drive 2.5 hrs 45 min break. drive 2 hrs than again 2hrs other work unloading again. than drive 2.5 hrs back. means im back 7.45 pm. that’s like 9 hrs driving and the rest of hrs breaks and other work…
if i am not right can anyone explain how 12 hrs shifts are advertise? or how come 90% of the lorry drivers that i know(and i know plenty lolz) are working like 14-15 hrs a day?
im in a little bit doubt here!!!
They might be using split daily rests where they have 3 hours off in one go during the shift which means they can do that every shift
From the moment you start the shift to the moment you end the shift you must by law have an official record of everything you did or be prepared to face the legal consequences
Isn’t there some EU rule which UK employers can opt out of? I’m vaguely aware of somebody mentioning that somewhere…
I thought I’d got to grips with all the working hours stuff but you do need to be Carol Vorderman to work some of it out 
Face:
Isn’t there some EU rule which UK employers can opt out of? I’m vaguely aware of somebody mentioning that somewhere…
Mobile workers can opt out of the night time 10 hour rule if there is an agreement
On CPC course we were told that normal working day can be 13 hours (driving and other work) extended to 15 hour shifts x 3 times per week. Your driving basically is limited to 45 hours per week (90/2=45) (not including rests and POAs as they aren’t included/accounted for in total amount of hours during a shift), but you can do other work, rests, POAs. The way I understood it, as long as your driving breaks & daily breaks & weekly breaks are kept in check, then you can do 45 hours of driving and other time spent doing other work, etc.
romik:
On CPC course we were told that normal working day can be 13 hours (driving and other work) extended to 15 hour shifts x 3 times per week. Your driving basically is limited to 45 hours per week (90/2=45) (not including rests and POAs as they aren’t included/accounted for in total amount of hours during a shift), but you can do other work, rests, POAs. The way I understood it, as long as your driving breaks & daily breaks & weekly breaks are kept in check, then you can do 45 hours of driving and other time spent doing other work, etc.
If that’s correct then the best advice I could give you would be to forget what that trainer told you.
tachograph:
romik:
On CPC course we were told that normal working day can be 13 hours (driving and other work) extended to 15 hour shifts x 3 times per week. Your driving basically is limited to 45 hours per week (90/2=45) (not including rests and POAs as they aren’t included/accounted for in total amount of hours during a shift), but you can do other work, rests, POAs. The way I understood it, as long as your driving breaks & daily breaks & weekly breaks are kept in check, then you can do 45 hours of driving and other time spent doing other work, etc.If that’s correct then the best advice I could give you would be to forget what that trainer told you.
What do you mean?
What I mean is that you’re not restricted to 13 hours shifts or 15 hour shifts 3 times week, you’re restricted to 3 reduced daily rest periods between weekly rest periods and that’s completely different to what you’ve said you was told.
You’re not restricted in any way whatsoever to 45 hours driving a week, you’re restricted to 56 hours driving per week and 90 hours driving in any 2 consecutive weeks, which again is completely different to what you say you was told.
You did say “The way I understood it”, I think we should all be hoping that you misunderstood what was being said, because if you understood him correctly he has no rights to be training anyone.
tachograph:
What I mean is that you’re not restricted to 13 hours shifts or 15 hour shifts 3 times week, you’re restricted to 3 reduced daily rest periods between weekly rest periods and that’s completely different to what you’ve said you was told.You’re not restricted in any way whatsoever to 45 hours driving a week, you’re restricted to 56 hours driving per week and 90 hours driving in any 2 consecutive weeks, which again is completely different to what you say you was told.
You did say “The way I understood it”, I think we should all be hoping that you misunderstood what was being said, because if you understood him correctly he has no rights to be training anyone.
But in principal that’s same things. Normal shift is 13 hours meaning 11 hours break and three times per week that break can be reduced to 9 hours making an extended shift of 15 hours possible three times per week (between any two weekly rest periods). And you are right maximum you can drive is 56 hours per week, but your average over 2 weeks/year is still going to be 45 hours per week due to 90 hour fortnightly restriction.
romik:
tachograph:
What I mean is that you’re not restricted to 13 hours shifts or 15 hour shifts 3 times week, you’re restricted to 3 reduced daily rest periods between weekly rest periods and that’s completely different to what you’ve said you was told.You’re not restricted in any way whatsoever to 45 hours driving a week, you’re restricted to 56 hours driving per week and 90 hours driving in any 2 consecutive weeks, which again is completely different to what you say you was told.
You did say “The way I understood it”, I think we should all be hoping that you misunderstood what was being said, because if you understood him correctly he has no rights to be training anyone.
But in principal that’s same things. Normal shift is 13 hours meaning 11 hours break and three times per week that break can be reduced to 9 hours making an extended shift of 15 hours possible three times per week (between any two weekly rest periods). And you are right maximum you can drive is 56 hours per week, but your average over 2 weeks/year is still going to be 45 hours per week due to 90 hour fortnightly restriction.
Not the same thing unless the driver always has exactly the same start time
Try using your understanding where the driver starts 1 hour earlier each day
Is that possible? Start 6am till 9pm (15 hours logged), can’t start work till 6am next day, correct?
ROG:
romik:
tachograph:
What I mean is that you’re not restricted to 13 hours shifts or 15 hour shifts 3 times week, you’re restricted to 3 reduced daily rest periods between weekly rest periods and that’s completely different to what you’ve said you was told.You’re not restricted in any way whatsoever to 45 hours driving a week, you’re restricted to 56 hours driving per week and 90 hours driving in any 2 consecutive weeks, which again is completely different to what you say you was told.
You did say “The way I understood it”, I think we should all be hoping that you misunderstood what was being said, because if you understood him correctly he has no rights to be training anyone.
But in principal that’s same things. Normal shift is 13 hours meaning 11 hours break and three times per week that break can be reduced to 9 hours making an extended shift of 15 hours possible three times per week (between any two weekly rest periods). And you are right maximum you can drive is 56 hours per week, but your average over 2 weeks/year is still going to be 45 hours per week due to 90 hour fortnightly restriction.
Not the same thing unless the driver always has exactly the same start time
Try using your understanding where the driver starts 1 hour earlier each day