Didn’t we have too much ‘workers’ rights. Which is what brought in the Thatcher era of union busting. As people were sick of blackouts and 3 day weeks lol? Well before the European Union.
But I was born in the 90s so well before my time 
. Feel free to educate me.
Franglais:
Conor:
that Swedish Derogation cost me about £80k.The Swedish derogation cost you £80K over ten-ish years? Wow, that`s a lot.
I bet you`re mad at the people who enabled the UK to get out of the EU rules in 2011?
Yeah, got a 34% wage rise when the rules changed in 2020 and we finally got parity pay with the full timers which also included things like shift allowances, fuel bonuses etc. The Swedish Derogation didn’t just apply in the UK, any EU member state could use it. It was named the Swedish Derogation because the Swedes were against the Agency Workers Regulations so the derogation was brought in so they’d agree and pass it. It had the effect of basically making the AWR pointless.
robroy:
Don’t gaf about WTD as in this industry it is a fallacy,.a ‘seeing to be doing the right thing’ excercise but with no substance thanks to poa.As for workers rights, they were here long before the [zb] EU reared it’s ugly head, worker s rights were fought hard for and achieved by our Grandfather 's generation with the advent of Trade Unions in the early 20th century.
However a number of things eradicated them in the last 30 or so years. Thatcher with her selling off of worker’s council homes so they had no stomach for a strike due to mortgages, and the anti union propaganda after the miner’s strike taught in schools and blanket coverage by the media which was all swallowed up by the next generation of workers.
So we have the divide and conquer scenario which was intentional,.where working people are condemning unions and in many cases have become subservient robots who will put up with and conform to any old sh…a great example is this industry that we are all in.So there you have it as Freddie Mercury once said.
^ The truth is that the EEC/EU allowed Thatcher to unilaterally effectively remove the right to strike for Brit workers in the form of outlawing secondary action.
The anything but Labour Party retained her union ‘reforms’.
It allowed the poaching of highly paid west Euro jobs by low wage East Euro states.
British unions have never been stronger than they were during the early 70’s before EEC/EU membership.Or for that matter the UK economy.
adam277:
Didn’t we have too much ‘workers’ rights. Which is what brought in the Thatcher era of union busting. As people were sick of blackouts and 3 day weeks lol? Well before the European Union.But I was born in the 90s so well before my time
It was actually Liebour leader Callaghan who started the smashing of the UK Unions with wage controls and selling out jobs to the foreign competition.Thatcher just finished the job.
As someone working in UK manufacturing in the day the strikes in the 1970s were a reaction to exactly the same issues as now.
Energy price led inflation in a country sitting on an ocean of oil and gas and a mountain of coal.Which Callaghan answered with weaponised unemployment job losses and wage controls for those left.
The band UB40 was formed on his watch and given that name for a reason.
adam277:
Didn’t we have too much ‘workers’ rights. Which is what brought in the Thatcher era of union busting. As people were sick of blackouts and 3 day weeks lol? Well before the European Union.But I was born in the 90s so well before my time
A Southerner and too young to remember, you’ll have to take other people’s word for it that there was a lot about that era you aren’t aware of. I was working age when Thatcher came to power, she devastated the north, but looked after the south quite nicely, it seemed to us.
TBH I blamed a lot of her consolidation of power on Arthur Scargill (Miners Union leader) and his politically naive approach to the miners strike, he wrongly believed the working class were all behind him - we weren’t. His overly aggressive cak-handed approach allowed Thatcher to crack down on the unions, hence the very weak state of unions today. A least that my view of history, I know southerners of my age tend to view Thatcher very differently.
I was made redundant in the last few weeks of Jim Callaghans Labour Government. My memory of Unions , they were organised/manipulated by idiotic Socialists, if it werent for the closed shop practices where you HAD to join the union they would have gone out of business. Lots of working people voted for the Tories for the first time in their lives back then.
alamcculloch:
Lots of working people voted for the Tories for the first time in their lives back then.
A lot like 2019 then, most of us being horrified by the thought of Corbyn as PM chose the blond-haired-buffoon as the lesser of two evils.
Well seems the unions are gaining power again
Zac_A:
alamcculloch:
Lots of working people voted for the Tories for the first time in their lives back then.A lot like 2019 then, most of us being horrified by the thought of Corbyn as PM chose the blond-haired-buffoon as the lesser of two evils.
How about Dianne Abbot as Chancellor, what could possibly go wrong!
alamcculloch:
Zac_A:
alamcculloch:
Lots of working people voted for the Tories for the first time in their lives back then.A lot like 2019 then, most of us being horrified by the thought of Corbyn as PM chose the blond-haired-buffoon as the lesser of two evils.
How about Dianne Abbot as Chancellor, what could possibly go wrong!
Ask Kwasi Kwarteng…
Zac_A:
adam277:
Didn’t we have too much ‘workers’ rights. Which is what brought in the Thatcher era of union busting. As people were sick of blackouts and 3 day weeks lol? Well before the European Union.But I was born in the 90s so well before my time
A Southerner and too young to remember, you’ll have to take other people’s word for it that there was a lot about that era you aren’t aware of. I was working age when Thatcher came to power, she devastated the north, but looked after the south quite nicely, it seemed to us.
TBH I blamed a lot of her consolidation of power on Arthur Scargill (Miners Union leader) and his politically naive approach to the miners strike, he wrongly believed the working class were all behind him - we weren’t.
Norvenors like the Notts miners who obviously weren’t behind him v the Kent miners first out and last to go back.
Southerners indeed
It’s clear that Scargill was proven right.
In practice, “Worker’s Rights” seem to apply to “Right to work excessive hours” rather than “Right to a max 40 hour week” pr “The right to a score per hour” like other walks of life might demand and expect…
I notice that for every firm touting the fact they have “unlimited overtime available” - your basic contract there is already likely to be above 50 hours before you qualify for that overtime… Thus, if you’d done say 5x10 hour shifts monday to friday, then congratulations - you qualify for some time-and-a-half on Saturday OR Sunday (which used to be double bubble - right?) - overtime that, because you’ve only got <4 hours driving left for the rolling fortnight means that you have to go “off book” driving the shunt tug for that “Overtime Shift”…
Overtime is only any good if you have a lower basic hours requirement. Any firm using the “Banked Hours” concept, means you might not even get overtime pay even working that 6th shift as well, don’t forget.
“You knocked off early every day this week, so you have made up your hours with this 6 hour saturday morning shift for which you won’t be paid, as you were simply working your contracted hours to the letter…”
Then there’s the other way of calculating overtime, this time for agency workers:
Example:
One agency pays “Right through rate”
Another pays “overtime after 8 hours” rate.
First agency will get you to start a shift at the lowest rate possible, and have you work (possibly through the night, or deep into Saturday morning…) by starting you 15 minutes before the tier hourly rate kicks in to the upside…
Second agency - will cut you off at the knees, planning you to be back at the yard at the 9 hour mark, with your break already taken, or deducted off even if not… For a flat 8 hours pay every damned day, regardless of how much work is available… One strangely never actually gets paid any of that “overtime after 8 hours” stuff…
All in all - the higher headline MINIMUM hourly rate - seems to go on being the one you rely on as your “Right to that pay rate”…
Then there’s the issue of being cancelled every time it is cheaper to put a full timer on the job rather than an agency - but that’s an agency issue, not affecting full timer’s contracts - Right?
alamcculloch:
Zac_A:
alamcculloch:
Lots of working people voted for the Tories for the first time in their lives back then.A lot like 2019 then, most of us being horrified by the thought of Corbyn as PM chose the blond-haired-buffoon as the lesser of two evils.
How about Dianne Abbot as Chancellor, what could possibly go wrong!
Diane Abbott? Shadow Home Secretary at one time.
How did she rate against the real Home Secretary at that time?
Zero point five percent…
youtube.com/watch?v=zUwiCtVmpYc
Three hundred thousand, and thirty four, nine hundred and seventy four thousand.
youtube.com/watch?v=G89YyV6hYe0
400,000
youtube.com/watch?v=2Na8WMYWm28
Carryfast:
Norvenors like the Notts miners who obviously weren’t behind him v the Kent miners first out and last to go back.
Southerners indeed
I live in Nottingham and so subsequently Nottinghamshire and I’m pretty certain we are not in the “North” nor are Northerners.
tmcassett:
Carryfast:
Norvenors like the Notts miners who obviously weren’t behind him v the Kent miners first out and last to go back.
Southerners indeedI live in Nottingham and so subsequently Nottinghamshire and I’m pretty certain we are not in the “North” nor are Northerners.
North of Watford? Of course you`re Northerners.
Ask any Member of Parliament! 
Scargil was right he was on the telly telling one and all that all the pits were going to be closed,he showed lists of the ones that were to be closed first, the medi all were against him ME also , they all said he was telling lies but it turned out he was telling the truth they were only fighting to keep pits open and a fair wage actually to keep the lights on at the time the sun said we are sitting on 300 years supply of coal but it was all sacrificed on the alter of the EU …not the common market…POA…WTD dont make me laugh 
fuse:
Scargil was right he was on the telly telling one and all that all the pits were going to be closed,he showed lists of the ones that were to be closed first, the medi all were against him ME also , they all said he was telling lies but it turned out he was telling the truth they were only fighting to keep pits open and a fair wage actually to keep the lights on at the time the sun said we are sitting on 300 years supply of coal but it was all sacrificed on the alter of the EU …not the common market…POA…WTD dont make me laugh
^^^^This.
I was never a fan of Scargill,.he was not the most tactful of blokes,.and I did not agree with many of his politics and opinions,.which were left of Stalin 
…but he did speak the truth as to how it actually was at the time.
His problem was…He took on the Establishment, which they HATE. …that is why you get punished more for fiddling taxes etc than you do to for doing over an old lady …loosely and relatively speaking.
There was a blanket and exaggerative media hate campaign against him,.and the gullible public sheep believed it all,.as they always do,…and did from the time of Goeblles and the Jews on one side,.to a less serious Boris and his ■■■■ wine parties on the other…an age old propaganda technique that invariably works…ie tell people something enough times constantly,.and they believe and repeat it with unlimited gullibility …a la truck cameras if you want to bring things back to transport and simplify things to make the point
So the Establishment went all out to win and starved the miners back to work, then came all the anti union policies thereafter. .and more negative propaganda, where the sheep listened,.and did their usual thing already mentioned. 
So today this is how we are with workers rights,.trade unions,.and all the injustices.
So now the modern contingent who dare to take on their employers (usually with no backing from spineless colleagues for the reasons I’ve pointed out).are looked upon as ‘trouble makers’ if they dare to speak out about unfair policies.
In our industry?..again cameras, paying for damages and all the other ■■■■ takes.
Then the more high profile and famous faces like the present Railway workers strike organising leader Mick Lynch for example , is being treated the same way as Scargill.and is well on his way to becoming a public pariah, and only for standing up for, and trying to get his members to keep their jobs and have a good standard of living…nothing changes and people still swallow (and repeat ) bull ■■■■ that is fed to them.
I honestly and deeply wish we had somebody like him representing us in our industry, we sure as hell would not be doing 15 hour days and sleeping in lay bys,.and all the other examples of crap we have to put up with in this job today.
Worker’s rights?..
Nothing changes,.and if you want illustrations and examples of brainwashed gullible sheep believing and repeating b/s fed to them by media and employers , just go through many of the posts on this forum alone,
Btw. have a read of my book…‘‘How to endear yourself and make new friends’’
by Rob.******.
Franglais:
tmcassett:
Carryfast:
Norvenors like the Notts miners who obviously weren’t behind him v the Kent miners first out and last to go back.
Southerners indeedI live in Nottingham and so subsequently Nottinghamshire and I’m pretty certain we are not in the “North” nor are Northerners.
North of Watford? Of course you`re Northerners.
Ask any Member of Parliament!
Worksop at less than 20 miles saf east of Sheffield is deffo Norf unlike closer to Calais than London in the case of Betteshanger.
fuse:
Scargil was right he was on the telly telling one and all that all the pits were going to be closed,he showed lists of the ones that were to be closed first, the medi all were against him ME also , they all said he was telling lies but it turned out he was telling the truth they were only fighting to keep pits open and a fair wage actually to keep the lights on at the time the sun said we are sitting on 300 years supply of coal but it was all sacrificed on the alter of the EU …not the common market…POA…WTD dont make me laugh
What!
The UK was importing coal at this time, not from the EU which didn`t exist, nor much from the EEC which did exist.
UK coal imports mostly came from Australia and the USA, then Poland, and S. Africa before any coal from a European country.
Coal Imports January-April 1986
(thousand tonnes)
Country…Coal Imports
Australia…1,361
United States…1,139
Poland…493
South Africa…196
F R Germany…184
Canada…143
Netherlands…115
Belgium…47
Columbia…35
Why would the EEC which started as a coal/iron trade block support coal imported from outside!
Look at the countries selling to the UK. Who made money from putting UK workers out of work?
Ed to add link Hansard
api.parliament.uk/historic-hans … al-imports
Franglais:
fuse:
Scargil was right he was on the telly telling one and all that all the pits were going to be closed,he showed lists of the ones that were to be closed first, the medi all were against him ME also , they all said he was telling lies but it turned out he was telling the truth they were only fighting to keep pits open and a fair wage actually to keep the lights on at the time the sun said we are sitting on 300 years supply of coal but it was all sacrificed on the alter of the EU …not the common market…POA…WTD dont make me laughWhat!
The UK was importing coal at this time, not from the EU which didn`t exist, nor much from the EEC which did exist.UK coal imports mostly came from Australia and the USA, then Poland, and S. Africa before any coal from a European country.
Coal Imports January-April 1986
(thousand tonnes)
Country…Coal Imports
Australia…1,361
United States…1,139
Poland…493
South Africa…196
F R Germany…184
Canada…143
Netherlands…115
Belgium…47
Columbia…35Why would the EEC which started as a coal/iron trade block support coal imported from outside!
Look at the countries selling to the UK. Who made money from putting UK workers out of work?
Strange how Russian miners and dockers were blacking non existent Russian coal exports to EEC member UK in that case.
The unarguable fact is that Scargill was right.
They were documented televised last words of the big K miners when they switched it off for the last time.
There was a cross party agenda to wipe out the UK coal industry, among others, and smash the UK Unions as a bonus.
Obviously bearing in mind that Liebour didn’t reverse any of Thatcher’s policies in that regard during the years that it was in power after the pathetic Major administration.
Heath, Thatcher, Major, Cameron and May isn’t exactly a record of decent leaders.
All no hopers in the extreme.
Its what the Tories are good at just like their uniparty allies in the form of Callaghan, Blair and Brown and now Starmer.
They are all puppets of the bankers and the bankers long ago bet against this country and put the cash elsewhere.
Bearing in mind that many of Scargills army would have been WW2 vets.Each one worth more than all the politicians we’ve had since combined, with the exception of Powell, Benn and Shore.