Hello
a question:
Is it true that many English Tractor units if you get a tax advantage more than 2 axes? Because the road is less stressed.
Or has someone told me a joke
greeting
on standard road tax, a 2 axle tractor unit (max 40 tonne)is £1850, whereas a 3 axle tractor unit (44 tonne) is £1200 per year
there are other ways of getting cheaper road tax, such as downplating a unit to 24 tonne
shuttlespanker:
on standard road tax, a 2 axle tractor unit (max 40 tonne)is £1850, whereas a 3 axle tractor unit (44 tonne) is £1200 per year
Or with a three-axle tractor unit with Reduced Pollution Certificate it’s £700 a year. 
Harry Monk:
shuttlespanker:
on standard road tax, a 2 axle tractor unit (max 40 tonne)is £1850, whereas a 3 axle tractor unit (44 tonne) is £1200 per yearOr with a three-axle tractor unit with Reduced Pollution Certificate it’s £700 a year.
Or with a 5 axle W&D, plated at 40 tonne, with a RPC, It’s £510
Thank you Danke Merci
greeting
Harry Monk:
shuttlespanker:
on standard road tax, a 2 axle tractor unit (max 40 tonne)is £1850, whereas a 3 axle tractor unit (44 tonne) is £1200 per yearOr with a three-axle tractor unit with Reduced Pollution Certificate it’s £700 a year.
Hiya Harry thats news to me been out of the job for a while. is that the Euro 3, 4, 5, 6, thing
John
Harry Monk:
shuttlespanker:
on standard road tax, a 2 axle tractor unit (max 40 tonne)is £1850, whereas a 3 axle tractor unit (44 tonne) is £1200 per yearOr with a three-axle tractor unit with Reduced Pollution Certificate it’s £700 a year.
or 3 axle unit and 3 axle trailer, combined transport £650 per year 
I’ve a 7 axle w&d and have no IDEa what the tax is cos i don’t pay it 
Is my memory playing tricks, i had a 2 axle tractor unit when the max weights increased from 32 to 38 tons, the VED for 38 tons with a 2 axle tractor 3 axle trailer layout ISTR coming in at nearly £3000…was it really that much or am i going gaga even quicker than i thought.
In 1984 was issued with a twin steer 3 axle tractor, which when taxed for 6 axles was something like a a £few hundred, only problem being that if taxed at the preferential rate for 6 axles you couldn’t legally drag a (loaded?) trailer with 2 axles @ 38tons, so by guvnor forwent the preferential tax and paid a middling rate, but less than the 5 axle, in order that i could use any and every trailer.
Sorry thats a bit long winded, but are those VED figures from my appalling memory way out or was it really nearly £3k in the early 80’s for 38 tons on 5 axles, and the 6 axle option that much lower?
Juddian:
Is my memory playing tricks, i had a 2 axle tractor unit when the max weights increased from 32 to 38 tons, the VED for 38 tons with a 2 axle tractor 3 axle trailer layout ISTR coming in at nearly £3000…was it really that much or am i going gaga even quicker than i thought.
Only slightly.
Maximum VED for a two axle tractor unit pulling a three axle trailer was £3,100, in the year 2000. Reduction of VED was the major concession made by the Government following the Fuel Blockade in that year.
Juddian:
Is my memory playing tricks, i had a 2 axle tractor unit when the max weights increased from 32 to 38 tons, the VED for 38 tons with a 2 axle tractor 3 axle trailer layout ISTR coming in at nearly £3000…was it really that much or am i going gaga even quicker than i thought.In 1984 was issued with a twin steer 3 axle tractor, which when taxed for 6 axles was something like a a £few hundred, only problem being that if taxed at the preferential rate for 6 axles you couldn’t legally drag a (loaded?) trailer with 2 axles @ 38tons, so by guvnor forwent the preferential tax and paid a middling rate, but less than the 5 axle, in order that i could use any and every trailer.
Sorry thats a bit long winded, but are those VED figures from my appalling memory way out or was it really nearly £3k in the early 80’s for 38 tons on 5 axles, and the 6 axle option that much lower?
You are right, I cant remember the exact figure for 38 ton, but topside off £3000 is correct. You could chop it by about 2 thirds if you ran on 3+3 consesions, but as you say you had to be pulling tri axle trailer all the time.
I worked for one boss who ran 3 axle units, but taxed for 38 ton on 5 (tandem trls) this was cheaper than 38 ton on 5 with a 4 wheeler unit and tri axle trailer, and you could still pull a tri axle if need be. At the time alot off the unaccompanied dutch trailers were tandem, but well heavy, so we needed to have the 3 axle units to handle them.
At one point, I think at the same time as they put up the wieghts to 40 on 5, and 41 on 6 IRC, a 36 ton on 4 axles weight catogary was introduced with a staggering £5000 road tax, though I might have been dreaming it,
IRC it was simplified when a when the 44 ton weights were introduced, didnt realise that all the RPC dicsounts still existed
I was on agency for Halford and they had a load of rented 3 axle units taxed to pull 3 axle trailers. This was a big problem as many of their trailers at the time were only two axles.
Thanks Harry Monk and Eddie Snax, several times over the years i wondered if VED really did hit £3k for those 5 axle jobbies, much obliged for the confirmation.
A couple of distant memories have been triggered by Juddian’s question…
I remember that if you had a three + three combo (and it was taxed as such), you couldn’t pull a tandem but you could pull a single axle trailer? Was it something to do with axle loadings or tyre scrub or somesuch?
I also remember that there was instances of some over-zealous plod or vosa trying to penalise operators of three + three’s if they had any axles lifted…their argument was that it was taxed as a six axle vehicle so all six should be in contact with the road 
It caused a bit of a furore at the time I recall… Thankfully common sense prevailed… 
Anyone else remember this or am I talking ■■■■■■■■ yet again??
Piston broke, I reckon back then you only got done for lifting axles if you had anything in the trailer, if completely empty you could lift them.
Harry Monk:
Juddian:
Is my memory playing tricks, i had a 2 axle tractor unit when the max weights increased from 32 to 38 tons, the VED for 38 tons with a 2 axle tractor 3 axle trailer layout ISTR coming in at nearly £3000…was it really that much or am i going gaga even quicker than i thought.Only slightly.
Maximum VED for a two axle tractor unit pulling a three axle trailer was £3,100, in the year 2000. Reduction of VED was the major concession made by the Government following the Fuel Blockade in that year.
Direct result of the Trucking International ‘Fair Tax For Trucks’ campaign.
Piston broke:
A couple of distant memories have been triggered by Juddian’s question…I remember that if you had a three + three combo (and it was taxed as such), you couldn’t pull a tandem but you could pull a single axle trailer? Was it something to do with axle loadings or tyre scrub or somesuch?
I also remember that there was instances of some over-zealous plod or vosa trying to penalise operators of three + three’s if they had any axles lifted…their argument was that it was taxed as a six axle vehicle so all six should be in contact with the road
Anyone else remember this or am I talking ■■■■■■■■ yet again??
Yes, i recall that about having problems if you had a tag axle raised, luckily (or not) the air sprung second steer on me Sed Ack 401 didn’t raise at all though you could dump the air when needed.
No trailer lift axles for me during the 80’s, still on steelies where i worked.
Company i worked for had one tipper trailer re-converted to ‘‘Fluidride’’, by Norde’s ISTR.
Trailers were originally tandems on steel springs, when the rush to go 38t was on they were nearly all converted (till gaffer started buying twin steer tractors instead) by simply bunging another steel sprung axle in front of the other two, some stretched some not, very agricultural…
I never liked this approach, it always led to unequal axle weights, one particular trailer conevrted to three axles but not stretched i was fully loaded with one day and happened to be able to use an axle weigher, the trailer axles weighed in at 5/7/12…yep the rear axle was running at 12 tons, lucky never had a ministry tug or the crap would have hit the fan big time, it always looked wrong and shoudl never have been converted simply, the rear axle was set too far forward on the chassis when the thing was first made.
Emergency call to gaffer followed, that trailer imediately went in to have ‘‘fluidride’’ fitted, which did indeed cure the unequal weights but at large increase of tare weight (and massive cost), so heavy in fact that it could only carry near enough the same load when running 4 axles @32t.
Never had any more tandems converted, just didn’t work out cost effective unless stretched, and even then we struggled to get full loads of Coalite/leather/Barley on due to volume, so new step frame tippers started to be bought as and when.
The surviving tandems didn’t take kindly to the increased weights either, design meant having to concentrate the load forwards in the trailer bed if possible, both for traction and axle weights, bodies started to crack up.
Another geezer managed to turn my really light usual tandem trailer over whilst tipping a stickly load, pity, the combo was very light.
I never really got 38 ton operation, a well chosen combination on 4 axles could carry over 21 tons and often nearly 22 running @ 32t, a badly chosen combination such as the fluidride fitted trailer i referred to above could only carry 23 tons, hardly worth all the cost and effort and tax, and i suspect that view was held by many operators, who held off going 38t until such time as their equipment of the time was scrapped.
attn Grandarom.
Sorry to have dragged your thread off at a tangent hope the background to this hasn’t been too boring 
, as for kinder to roads all these axles?, you are right what a load of bollox that is.
You only have to look at the state of your own tyres on a typical non steering three axle trailer or the non steer tag axle on a three axle tractor/rigid, the non steer tyres get ripped to shreds, doesn’t take much imapination to see why roundabouts and tight corners used a lot by big lorries get torn up too.
To add to the tyre shredding scenario in almost all cases its impossible to raise any tag axles when loaded, doing so as we once did when tight maonoeuvering made a lot of difference, last tractor i drove that still had the ability to raise the tag fully loaded was the much derided (undeservedly) Axor.
Piston broke:
A couple of distant memories have been triggered by Juddian’s question…I remember that if you had a three + three combo (and it was taxed as such), you couldn’t pull a tandem but you could pull a single axle trailer? Was it something to do with axle loadings or tyre scrub or somesuch?
I also remember that there was instances of some over-zealous plod or vosa trying to penalise operators of three + three’s if they had any axles lifted…their argument was that it was taxed as a six axle vehicle so all six should be in contact with the road
Anyone else remember this or am I talking ■■■■■■■■ yet again??
quite right on the tri - axle / single axle road tax, i taxed a truck 2 + 3 for 32 tonnes so it was cheap road tax, and pulled a single axle 45’ caravan trailer. you couldn’t pull a 2 axle trailer and the disc was divided into 3 triangular segments (bit like a merc badge)
Juddian:
Piston broke:
A couple of distant memories have been triggered by Juddian’s question…I remember that if you had a three + three combo (and it was taxed as such), you couldn’t pull a tandem but you could pull a single axle trailer? Was it something to do with axle loadings or tyre scrub or somesuch?
I also remember that there was instances of some over-zealous plod or vosa trying to penalise operators of three + three’s if they had any axles lifted…their argument was that it was taxed as a six axle vehicle so all six should be in contact with the road
Anyone else remember this or am I talking ■■■■■■■■ yet again??
Yes, i recall that about having problems if you had a tag axle raised, luckily (or not) the air sprung second steer on me Sed Ack 401 didn’t raise at all though you could dump the air when needed.
No trailer lift axles for me during the 80’s, still on steelies where i worked.
Company i worked for had one tipper trailer re-converted to ‘‘Fluidride’’, by Norde’s ISTR.
Trailers were originally tandems on steel springs, when the rush to go 38t was on they were nearly all converted (till gaffer started buying twin steer tractors instead) by simply bunging another steel sprung axle in front of the other two, some stretched some not, very agricultural…
I never liked this approach, it always led to unequal axle weights, one particular trailer conevrted to three axles but not stretched i was fully loaded with one day and happened to be able to use an axle weigher, the trailer axles weighed in at 5/7/12…yep the rear axle was running at 12 tons, lucky never had a ministry tug or the crap would have hit the fan big time, it always looked wrong and shoudl never have been converted simply, the rear axle was set too far forward on the chassis when the thing was first made.
Emergency call to gaffer followed, that trailer imediately went in to have ‘‘fluidride’’ fitted, which did indeed cure the unequal weights but at large increase of tare weight (and massive cost), so heavy in fact that it could only carry near enough the same load when running 4 axles @32t.
Never had any more tandems converted, just didn’t work out cost effective unless stretched, and even then we struggled to get full loads of Coalite/leather/Barley on due to volume, so new step frame tippers started to be bought as and when.
The surviving tandems didn’t take kindly to the increased weights either, design meant having to concentrate the load forwards in the trailer bed if possible, both for traction and axle weights, bodies started to crack up.
Another geezer managed to turn my really light usual tandem trailer over whilst tipping a stickly load, pity, the combo was very light.
I never really got 38 ton operation, a well chosen combination on 4 axles could carry over 21 tons and often nearly 22 running @ 32t, a badly chosen combination such as the fluidride fitted trailer i referred to above could only carry 23 tons, hardly worth all the cost and effort and tax, and i suspect that view was held by many operators, who held off going 38t until such time as their equipment of the time was scrapped.
attn Grandarom.
Sorry to have dragged your thread off at a tangent hope the background to this hasn’t been too boring
You only have to look at the state of your own tyres on a typical non steering three axle trailer or the non steer tag axle on a three axle tractor/rigid, the non steer tyres get ripped to shreds, doesn’t take much imapination to see why roundabouts and tight corners used a lot by big lorries get torn up too.
To add to the tyre shredding scenario in almost all cases its impossible to raise any tag axles when loaded, doing so as we once did when tight maonoeuvering made a lot of difference, last tractor i drove that still had the ability to raise the tag fully loaded was the much derided (undeservedly) Axor.
Briliant Mate, you reminded me off that thing with puttng a 3rd axle on a trailer, I was working as a FLT driver when 38 ton came in, not old enough for HGV at that time, but lorry mad 
I used to spend as much time as I could chatting to all the truckers that came in, and I heard quite alot off ■■■■■■■■ about those bodgetastic trailers.
One haulier grafted a 3rd axle onto a F88 they had, they cursed that truck, the drivers 
apparently it would just wheelspin in the damp when trying to pull away , wish I couldve had a go in that
You mentioned scrubbing axles on tractor units, in the early 90’s I drove an F12 with castor streer middle axle. As concept it was fine, over about 15mph it would lock itself straight ahead, only mine would let itself go at speed , so all off a sudden the whole truck would shake violently , switching on the loading light would relock it
One off the other types off axle configuration around then was spread axle tandems, I used to think they pulled nice on the open road, but they were a bit off a handfull sometimes when reversing onto a bay or into a parking slot, the pivot point seemed to move between the fore and rear axle depending on how much slope or undulations were in the path.