winter driving

ROG:
I have never used one so excuse my ignorance but does a Jake-Brake act differently as I have seen this used on ice road truckers to slow down in icy conditions :question:

Wikipedia:-

A Jake Brake or Jacobs Brake is a compression braking mechanism installed on some Diesel engines. When activated, it opens exhaust valves in the cylinders, releasing the compressed air trapped in the cylinders, and slowing the vehicle. These devices are also referred to as compression release engine brakes.
Although Jake Brake properly refers to the Jake Brake brand of engine brakes, the term has become a genericized trademark and is often used to refer to engine brakes or compression release engine brakes in general, especially on large vehicles or heavy equipment.

When the accelerator is released on moving vehicle, its forward momentum continues to turn the Diesel engine’s crankshaft and compress air in the cylinders. As the piston passes through top dead center, the compressed air in the cylinder acts as a spring and pushes the piston back down the cylinder, returning most of the energy expended in compression back to the crankshaft. Therefore the engine does not effectively aid in slowing the vehicle.
In a gasoline engine, some engine braking is provided during closed-throttle operation due to the work required to maintain intake manifold vacuum, the balance coming from internal friction of the engine itself. Diesel engines, however, do not throttle air intake and hence do not provide engine braking from throttling losses.

A compression release engine brake uses an extra lobe on the camshaft to open a second exhaust valve at the top of the compression stroke. The stem of this valve telescopes during normal operation so the valve remains closed, but is locked at full length by a solenoid when the engine brake is engaged so that the valve opens as directed by the cam. This releases the compressed air in the cylinder, thus preventing it from returning its energy back to the piston. Accordingly, engine drag increases and the vehicle speed is reduced.

The driver controls consist of an on/off switch and, sometimes, a multi-position switch that controls the number of cylinders on which the brake is active. When the compression release engine brake is turned on, it will activate when the driver releases the accelerator. There are also switches on the clutch and accelerator pedals that will deactivate the compression brake when the clutch is disengaged or the accelerator is pressed.

Seems pretty much the same thing as our retarders, Rog.

Thanks for that Mart

What effect does that have in comparison to an exhaust brake :question:

A Jacobs Brake (“jake brake”) is a particularly powerful kind of retarder, the technical explanation of which I shall leave for those more technically minded… They were fitted to some ERFs a few years ago - one of my first allocated motors was an EC11 with a jake brake, but in general are unusual in this country. They are operated by a seperate 3-stage pedal mounted in the driver’s footwell, and in this country should NOT be used in snow and ice, or even on greasy wet roads. Having seen the results of someone having done so with a single pot tanker on, trust me, it ain’t pretty.

It’s standard advice in North America, and much advocated by British drivers who have moved over there, that jakes should be used instead of service brakes in winter conditions. If you look around the main forums, there are many debates on the subject, the most interesting being the most recent where even the Scandinavian contributors disagree with this method.

From what I can gather, the reason the advice differs is largely down to 3 things:

  • Once ice reaches a VERY low temperature, it starts to become more solid again, and traction improves. We never see temperatures that low in this country, but over there -15 is not by any means unusual, and the normal arguements for use of retarders etc. come back into play.
  • The vast majority of tractor units in N.America are double drive, for reasons which I can’t work out no matter how many times I read the arguements and try to make them match with the laws of physics. They simply DON’T match with the laws of physics, in fact, and can only, once again, be put down to the fact that most equipment in that part of the world is technologically light years behind what we have in Europe, thanks to unwillingness amongst drivers and operators to embrace change (which is a whole other thread in itself). Anyhow, suffice to say that this means the jakes are acting on two axles rather than one. Don’t ask me why that makes it any better mind, as it still means all the braking is coming from the unit. Probably best just to refer back to the first point above. :confused:
  • Again, due to “out-of-the-ark” equipment, there is still some delay on the air brakes on N.American trucks. That split second between applying foot to pedal and the brakes actually coming on can spell disaster in conditions where split-second judgement and timing can be all, so the jake is used as it is more predictable in that respect.

In the interest of balance, I suggest you now go and ask the same question in the Ex Pats Forum and receive the same answer with a far more pro-American/anti-progress slant. :grimacing:

Ps. And yes, I HAVE had a go in a US truck, by virtue of the fact that Rik and I used to cover the Mid American Truck Show for the magazines every year. One of the biggest things we looked at was this kind of difference. We also have many very good friends out on the road on that side of the pond, both British and American, many of whom admit that it’s actually time the industry moved on and caught up with their European counterparts. In other words, I’m not just speaking from a position of long-distance ignorance and transatlantic predjudice here, the opinion HAS been properly researched, on the ground, by talking to those in both “camps”. It is, however, as with all these things, only opinion. :stuck_out_tongue:

A Jacobs Brake (“jake brake”) is a particularly powerful kind of retarder, the technical explanation of which I shall leave for those more technically minded

Thanks, Smart Mart. You got there as I was typing. :grimacing:

ROG:
Thanks for that Mart

What effect does that have in comparison to an exhaust brake :question:

Its an American term for the same thing as far as I know. It will just work on the drive axle, as it is just another form of engine braking.

Smart Mart:

ROG:
Thanks for that Mart

What effect does that have in comparison to an exhaust brake :question:

Its an American term for the same thing as far as I know. It will just work on the drive axle, as it is just another form of engine braking.

Having used one, I can assure you it’s far harsher/more effective.

Thanks both and especially for that explanation Lucy :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Lucy:
A few more from experience:

  • Crack the window open a touch. If you can hear noise under your tyres you’re on snow/slush. If it goes quiet, you are on ice.
    [/quote]
    Another option is to look at the wheels of other vehicles. If the road looks wet and you see spray coming from their wheels you should be okay. If the road looks wet and there is no, or next to no, spray coming from their wheels you are more than likely on black ice. A combination of the above methods should give you plenty of warning. It worked for me on the A2 near Hanover on Wednesday evening and got me safely through a short stretch where there was 11 vehicles of various sizes either off the road, in the central reservation, or in a couple of cases actually in the process of leaving the road! :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

Thats my way too Coffeeholic

Another option is to look at the wheels of other vehicles. If the road looks wet and you see spray coming from their wheels you should be okay. If the road looks wet and there is no, or next to no, spray coming from their wheels you are more than likely on black ice. A combination of the above methods should give you plenty of warning.

Also feel the road thru the seat of your pants the whole truck behaves and feels different when driving on ice and snow, the snow can be seen, but the ice can,t some of the worst ice i have driven on has been in Germany ,really treacherous.
The volvos we have has the Volvo equivelent of the jake brake, which works on the same princible only braking on the drive axle :confused: and as some of you say this is the last thing you wan,t comeing on when driving on ice i have had it stall the engine and that dangerous :open_mouth: needed a change of underpants.
The things i do on ice is, as ours are also automatics, turn the traction control off and exhaust/retarder/jake brakes off and drive the thing as they used to be driven, using the head and reading the conditions ahead,some of the older trucks had trailer brakes which was a good way to test the grip, at low speeds though.

Proper snow but its good gripping as long as it treat with care.

klunk/■■■■■■■■
Thats my way too Coffeeholic

Another option is to look at the wheels of other vehicles. If the road looks wet and you see spray coming from their wheels you should be okay. If the road looks wet and there is no, or next to no, spray coming from their wheels you are more than likely on black ice. A combination of the above methods should give you plenty of warning.

Also feel the road thru the seat of your pants the whole truck behaves and feels different when driving on ice and snow, the snow can be seen, but the ice can,t some of the worst ice i have driven on has been in Germany ,really treacherous.
The volvos we have has the Volvo equivelent of the jake brake, which works on the same princible only braking on the drive axle :confused: and as some of you say this is the last thing you wan,t comeing on when driving on ice i have had it stall the engine and that dangerous :open_mouth: needed a change of underpants.
The things i do on ice is, as ours are also automatics, turn the traction control off and exhaust/retarder/jake brakes off and drive the thing as they used to be driven, using the head and reading the conditions ahead,some of the older trucks had trailer brakes which was a good way to test the grip, at low speeds though.

Why turn the traction control off?

Smart Mart asked

Why turn the traction control off?

On the auto boxes (I Shift) when you are trying to get grip even with the difflock engaged as soon as you get any wheel spin on the drive axle the traction device cuts the throttle, i like to decide how much power i need especially when setting off on ice.
Klunk
PS for Rog, The volvo jake like brake is about 75% to 80% as effective as the oil retarders, which makes the jake about 4 times as powerfull as a standard exhaust brake.

adam79:
Any hints or tips on driving during the cold weather?

I’ll echo what’s been said before: be calm and avoid doing any sharp actions. Also cold weather itself doesn’t mean slippery roads. One thing which may help to keep actions steady is to think you have a glass of water on top your dashboard and drive so that you spill no water from it.

Many good ways to judge if road is slippery or not have been already mentioned, but I think using illumination of oncoming traffic isn’t yet mentioned. I don’t know how applicable this is in UK due to motorways, but this works pretty well in single carriageways. In the dark you can get hints about frozen road by looking tyre tracks of the other lane in the lights of oncoming traffic. Frozen and icy tyre tracks look different than dry or wet asphalt. This requires some training, but it’s quite easy to learn to spot difference between good and bad traction.

Another, rather obvious hints are to take us much weight on fifth wheel as can if you’re able to affect load distribution and try to stay moving on slippery conditions. Crawl 100 metres if you have to if that means you don’t have to stop on an incline. If you have to stop, leave some distance to the vehicle in front of you. He may have to reverse in order to get moving.

Edit:
I divided my original post as it grow so long that most probably would have lose the interest in it, but here are most interesting parts which you can check from my next post. Check at least the “bouncing” as it’s very helpful skill to know when stuck (found about halfway through that post). Another thing is that although wheel spin is appropriate at times, but when you’re stationary it only gets you more stuck.

Then I’d like, apart from applauding the very neat posts from Lucy, to comment some parts of those posts:

Lucy:
A few more from experience:

  • Virgin snow on outside lanes will often give you better traction than compacted snow or slush that has frozen overnight on inside lanes. Don’t be afraid to use it.
  • If you get stuck, the following tricks should be tried before concluding that you need help…1. Select a higher starting gear than normal and pull away with as little throttle as you can. If your wagon has idle-away then don’t touch the throttle at all. Otherwise just use a tiny amount. DON’T slip the clutch…2. Make sure your lift axle is raised, if you have one…3. Raise the air suspension on the tractor unit as high as it will go, and dump the air out of the trailer axles. This puts maximum weight on your fifth wheel and hence drive axle. If that has no effect or makes matters worse due to the angle you are on, dump from the unit and raise the trailer. 99.9% of the time this will give you traction to get out of trouble, even on sheet ice… 4. Engage diff locks, if fitted. This should be a last resort, however, as you will lose accurate steering control atthe same time…

Virgin snow gets also my vote, or actually to almost anything else than frozen tyre tracks. Just steering out off the tyre tracks usually gives you much better traction (tyre tracks are often ice and even slush next to it has superior traction). One should also note that this usually applies everywhere. It doesn’t matter if one is steering out off the tyre tracks in a case of hard braking or driving quite near the ditch when turning or taking a ramp off the motorway (most people tend to drive “inside part” of a ramp leaving virgin snow on the “outside part”). Steering off from the dark tyre tracks generally increases traction and can mean the difference between staying on the road or loosing control.

About the getting stuck part, I’d raise the lift axle up as the first thing (and wait until it’s risen) as it gives a very drastic traction increase. Trying to raise the axle up is often advisable even when axle doesn’t raise as in that case many makes alter the suspension air pressure so that more weight is transferred to the drive axle. One can also do this before getting stuck, like when approaching traffic lights on an incline.

Then I’d like to disagree about the diff lock being the last resort. If you wait until you have had wheel spin before applying the diff lock you might be stuck in a situation from which you might very well been able to drive away just by applying diff lock before your first take-off attempt. Also, diff lock doesn’t have to be kept engaged for a long time. Often it’s enough to use it just to get barely moving and disengage it after that.

As this is newbie forum: diff lock can be disengaged while moving; switch off the diff lock from dashboard and ease a bit from a throttle after that to release differential momentarily. This allows diff lock to release itself. After that you can drive just like normally. If diff lock didn’t release itself, don’t worry too much. It’ll release itself soon and steering little bit often helps in releasing it. If ground is slippery you can do some pretty sharp turns without damaging differential so don’t be too afraid about that.

Then my twopence about what to try when stuck before calling for a help. Raise all the axles you can (also from the trailer). After that, actions depend quite much about the situation. For example, on an incline, when pulling away from a bay or when you’re stuck in a flat, ice covered yard I’d engage diff lock. If you can’t get moving with that, next thing to try would be trying to “bounce” lorry out of the hole it’s stuck. This “bouncing” works so that you pull forward as as long as possible. This might not be much, only few centimetres. Immediately when forward motion stops, press the clutch. Don’t let wheels to spin in that kind of situation for long (i.e. when stationary) as that’s very good way to dig yourself even more stuck. After forward motion stop, lorry starts moving backwards by itself. Let it go so for a tiny amount more than the amount you could pull forward (if it doesn’t go by itself, reverse). After that stop and pull forward. Repeat this back and forth action until you’re free or until you can’t get any motion any more (there probably is better English word than “bouncing” for this action). If you have difficulties understanding my meaning think about a ball standing in a shallow hole and how the ball acts when you move it back and forth and how it eventually jumps out of this hole which prevents the movement.

If this fails, then next thing I’d do is to find something to put under the drive axle. It can be almost anything: grit, small rocks, branches, broken roller cages, chains, etc. Often it is surprisingly little extra traction that is needed to get lorry moving.

That high gear trick is also quite handy sometimes, and depending from the gearbox you can do some very nice tricks. For example in 12 gear manual Volvo gearbox, when taking off empty or light, you can let clutch bite a bit at 7th gear and change to 3rd gear in a fraction of seconds.

Just to mention, next quote and reply to it are a bit off-topic so don’t read if my post is too long :smiley:

Lucy:
A Jacobs Brake (“jake brake”) is a particularly powerful kind of retarder … in this country should NOT be used in snow and ice, or even on greasy wet roads. …

It’s standard advice in North America, and much advocated by British drivers who have moved over there, that jakes should be used instead of service brakes in winter conditions. If you look around the main forums, there are many debates on the subject, the most interesting being the most recent where even the Scandinavian contributors disagree with this method.

From what I can gather, the reason the advice differs is largely down to 3 things:

  • Once ice reaches a VERY low temperature, it starts to become more solid again, and traction improves. We never see temperatures that low in this country, but over there -15 is not by any means unusual, and the normal arguements for use of retarders etc. come back into play.
    [/quote]
    On this traction behaviour you are very much spot on. When driving on ice or snow covered road on temperatures like -15 C or -25 C you can drive pretty much like at summer, traction often is that god. A rough rule of thumb could be that anything below -10C offers a good traction and another rule of thumb is that most slippery conditions exist around +2 C…-2 C. Regrettably for you, most of the winter driving in UK happens near 0 C, I think.

My experience wont allow me to talk about artics, but with loaded 6x2 rigid/w&d you generally can use exhaust brake on any conditions and retarder/jake brake/VEB/etc. on most conditions even on winter. It’s just this around 0 C area and some snow-on-ice-conditions on which proper care is required with retarders. Some of this also applies to exhaust brake, but to a lesser degree. When empty (i.e. lift axle is up) I’d be much more careful with exhaust brake and retarder as in that case you don’t have the extra sideways traction given by lift axle tyres protecting you from “jack knife” -effect when you lock drive axle up. I’d think this same effect protects artics from jack knife when you’re loaded (i.e. lift axle is down), but it’s just a thought.

If you can’t get moving with that, next thing to try would be trying to “bounce” lorry out of the hole it’s stuck. This “bouncing” works so that you pull forward as as long as possible. This might not be much, only few centimetres. Immediately when forward motion stops, press the clutch. Don’t let wheels to spin in that kind of situation for long (i.e. when stationary) as that’s very good way to dig yourself even more stuck. After forward motion stop, lorry starts moving backwards by itself. Let it go so for a tiny amount more than the amount you could pull forward (if it doesn’t go by itself, reverse). After that stop and pull forward. Repeat this back and forth action until you’re free or until you can’t get any motion any more (there probably is better English word than “bouncing” for this action). If you have difficulties understanding my meaning think about a ball standing in a shallow hole and how the ball acts when you move it back and forth and how it eventually jumps out of this hole which prevents the movement.

Bloody good point, Kyrbo, I’d forgotten about that. It’s generally refered to as “rocking it out” in this country. :bulb:

All these snow driving tips are only for on roads with a fair bit of snow ON them. Not for on tarmac with snow on the verges.
Obviously on clear roads in snowy/icy conditions you have to keep your eyes open and wits about you and be ready for conditions to change at any moment.
But don’t sweat about what isn’t there just now, leave that till it is there. :smiley:

My advice is to carry grit and somehting sharp with you, i’ve been well and truely beached 3 times in this snow and ice… I got stuck on a slip road off the A1 in newcastle! in an automatic MAN with no diff lock.lol

The snow is ok when you go over it fresh but then it’s just squahed and goes to ice = no grip.! Once you’ve started spinning you’re generally stuck as the snow turns to ice and the wheel is sunk in it, the only way out is to smash the ice up. Only problem with diff lock when i’ve used them in the Mercs is it can send the unit sideways which is a pain in the watsit when you need to be in a certain position to pull off your reverse.

philmots:
My advice is to carry grit and somehting sharp with you, i’ve been well and truely beached 3 times in this snow and ice… I got stuck on a slip road off the A1 in newcastle! in an automatic MAN with no diff lock.lol

I bought a foldable shovel from Maplins, it cost £8 :grimacing:

DAF95XF:

philmots:
My advice is to carry grit and somehting sharp with you, i’ve been well and truely beached 3 times in this snow and ice… I got stuck on a slip road off the A1 in newcastle! in an automatic MAN with no diff lock.lol

I bought a foldable shovel from Maplins, it cost £8 :grimacing:

This?? maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=217527

garnerlives:

DAF95XF:

philmots:
My advice is to carry grit and somehting sharp with you, i’ve been well and truely beached 3 times in this snow and ice… I got stuck on a slip road off the A1 in newcastle! in an automatic MAN with no diff lock.lol

I bought a foldable shovel from Maplins, it cost £8 :grimacing:

This?? maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=217527

Thats the one, I paid 2 quid less than that in the shop though :wink:

It looks quite small, is it?