Will the shortage eventually sort the job out

msgyorkie:
This job has also attracted men who are hard up with debts and they have found a career that gaurantees them a lot of hours. Just last week we had a chap who left us because the company couldnt offer him max hours. He basically needs to work all hours just to keep his head above water. What a way to live!

This has become a problem to those of us that want the work/life balance and value our time at home with our family. As we push back and say no to the crazy hours, we have the in debt guys crying because they are not banging in 70 hours a week!

If I got in that situation again I would just file for Bankruptcy and say to the hell with it
What a way lead yer life :unamused:

Terry Cooksey:
With regards to tramping, I think it is an older man’s game these days. When you’re younger, especially when you have a young family at home, you miss so much by being away all the time. It also puts a massive burden on their partner, singlehandedly having to run a household, raise kids, all while usually having a full-time job of their own.
The stress and pressure that puts on relationships means people are massively put off from tramping, especially as the financial reward for doing so is so poor, what does 4 nights out a week get you, maybe £100? Not worth it for all you miss out on.
Would reducing the number of hours you can work in a shift solve that? No, because you’re still away and still missing out. The only thing that might would be drastically increasing the rate payable for nights out, but that won’t happen any time soon

Tramping has always been the forte of a small minority. The difference in the past was that it attracted good money, because nobody much wanted to do it.

Nowadays, the industry has tried to turn that on its head, transforming what could easily be done as day jobs into tramping roles, whilst paying a relative pittance for it.

As was recently said by someone in the news, the industry is making it impossible for men to spend any real time at home sharing the domestic burden, but isn’t paying them nearly enough to support a housewife who doesn’t need to work (as well as bearing the entire cost of the house and kids).

It’s become disproportionately an old man’s game because their wives are too old to leave, the fellas themselves are too old to switch jobs, they aren’t supporting young children any more, their mortgages are more likely to be small or paid up, in some cases they might still have good pension terms, so overall they are living comfortably enough financially and have few alternatives, whereas a younger man would have a totally different perspective.

robroy:

Terry Cooksey:
With regards to tramping, I think it is an older man’s game these days. When you’re younger, especially when you have a young family at home, you miss so much by being away all the time. It also puts a massive burden on their partner, singlehandedly having to run a household, raise kids, all while usually having a full-time job of their own.
The stress and pressure that puts on relationships means people are massively put off from tramping, especially as the financial reward for doing so is so poor, what does 4 nights out a week get you, maybe £100? Not worth it for all you miss out on.
Would reducing the number of hours you can work in a shift solve that? No, because you’re still away and still missing out. The only thing that might would be drastically increasing the rate payable for nights out, but that won’t happen any time soon

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I didn’t really intend to get this thread into a tramper v dayman debate, but I do see your point but disagree with a lot of it.
It was BECAUSE i was young it attracted me to it.
It started when I used to go away with mates in the days that drivers all socialised with each other, and to use the term loosely it was the ‘adventurous’ side if me that attracted me to it,.seeing places I would maybe never otherwise go to, and being left alone all week with no hassle, using my own initiative.

Nowadays the job is soooooo different, trackers, phones micro management have just [zb] ed it up in many ways.

Today in the job, you get a lot of blokes who are basically car drivers, and just see this job as any other, so in their case the tramping job ain’t for them,.I agree.

I personally just saw tramping and cabbiing out over long distances ‘‘part of the job’’, so it never really bothered me, it amuses me of the perceived b/s that comes out of some day/night men’s gobs, wet wipe washes, never showering bag ■■■■■■■■ [emoji38] , living in a tin box, wife getting shagged silly when you are away (fair comment in many cases btw :smiley: ) and all the rest if the bull crap that trampers are used to hearing.

I met my Mts while being a driver, and she knew what to expect, it does not work for some but it worked for us, missing the kids was the worst., but they came all over the Continent with me during hols,.as a bit of quality time that I would never have missed looking back, and the wife coming with me before the kids were born.

So looking back it has had it’s down sides, but certainly not the anti christ of trucking jobs as some see it. :smiley:

I wasn’t trying to turn it into a tramper vs day man debate either. But look at all the things you enjoyed about tramping, and by your own admission the job doesn’t exist in the way as it did once upon a time.
Think about it this way, you were allowed to do the job in the way you saw fit, were trusted to get on with it and to be left alone while doing it. This, while not as obvious as rates of pay or hours worked, is another form of terms and conditions, ie, doing it on your terms and under your conditions and not those enforced by a bod in the office, or a ridiculously tight delivery window.
Those are the sorts of changes that we need to look at bringing back, allow us to put the ‘professional’ back into ‘professional drivers’ and to be treated with the respect that the job once carried.
If we get these more subtle terms and conditions sorted, then the rest should follow, not just on a temporary basis because of a short-term issue like we currently have, but on a more permanent basis

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I think we’re both singing from the same sheet mate. :smiley:

I’ve read through this thread with some interest, mainly because I’ve just gone into tramping after nearly 16 years with an own-account company.

In my old job (BOCM, Carmarthen) I had pretty much my own wagon though it was used sometimes by the night men for trunking, and did nights out mainly during the game feed season when I worked out of our Radstock mill. Deliveries were either to farms or feed merchants with the occasional high street pet shop, 99.5 per cent Moffett or FLT unload; only ever had one customer I fell out with in all those years and he was a notorious arse anyway, disliked even by his fellow farmers. Most I was on first name terms with and one or two have become friends. Good crew of drivers to work with, most had been there for years; it was very much a “dead man’s shoes” job, probably the best paid in the area and I counted myself fortunate at the time to get it.

About eight years ago BOCM was bought out by ForFarmers; everything was hunky-dory for quite a while, then we noticed a gradual shift as old school managers were weeded out and a new breed came along. The wages stagnated, although to be fair the company did keep a good fleet and still does; several attempts were made to change our contracts to more “flexible” ones, the system became more bureaucratic, communication (admittedly never a strong point) worsened and the senior management seemed more remote, concerned mainly with sending out fancy diktats full of office speak and other BS.

My feet had been itching for a while; the final straw came when I got pinged by a speed camera in Hereford last December. My line manager did an investigation, as he was required to; we had a meeting, good and friendly discussion and he ended it with the opinion that I’d made a genuine mistake, he was sure I wasn’t going to do it again, and provided I didn’t he saw no reason why the matter should go any further. That was it until Christmas Eve, when I came home to find a letter on my doormat informing me that I was to undergo a disciplinary; the “trial” having been set for January 6th, the day after all the office staff came back to work. Cutting a long story short, because of a combination of Covid regulations, ineptitude on the part of our planner and the usual lack of communication, I ended up having that disciplinary via a 4 way “virtual” set-up over my phone, parked up outside Builth Wells showground! Neither I not my Unite rep were impressed (it ■■■■■■ off my line manager too) but the union rep advised me to go ahead and get it over with. Despite his best efforts and myself, I think, putting a good case, I ended up with a written warning and I strongly suspect that this was going to happen anyway regardless of what was said.

That made my mind up; I started seriously looking elsewhere and about six months later, as the current shortage was beginning to bite a bit, put my notice in and started working for a small family firm in Swansea. Good reputation, long-standing contracts, no dirty work; my “own” unit (18 plate Actros) and decent pay/conditions. Kitchen and shower, both spotlessly clean, in the yard if I happen to be parked there. Been there six weeks now and loving it. We do have trackers and phones, but so long as you’re not messing about you get left alone to get on with the job; I think mutual trust between boss and driver is a vital part of tramping. Another thing is having the right mindset; as many have said it is not a job for everyone. I’ve always maintained that lorry drivers, particularly trampers, are born rather than made.

Robroy is correct with everything he has said on this subject and I second him,sad thing if they did it all next week it would be 30 years to late …well done Robroy

It’s not a bad thing if some people start appreciating the harsh realities of HGV driving, but I can’t see how a bit of sympathy/empathy will change things - we all appreciate how NHS workers have a hard time, but it doesn’t stop people demanding more of them, even to the point of being physically attacked when they’re trying to administer treatment…

I think the bad ways of the industry are so well entrenched, it will take decades to make a real change.

I think is sounds as if they have lost a good driver Side valve

fuse:
I think is sounds as if they have lost a good driver Side valve

Thanks mate, kind of you to say so. I’m not alone; five quit at Selby recently, Radstock and Portbury have always struggled to find new recruits though this is largely down to the likes of Royal Mail in Bristol paying top dollar.

It’s quite a specialised job, and certainly not for everyone; can be dirty, smelly and damned hard work, but the bonus is you rarely if ever go into cities and you do go to some very nice places, particularly on the game feed work.

Londontrucker123:
I think if the government dropped the max 15 hours a day to 12, dare I say even 10 or 11 that might go some way to hitting home with the general public just what the job entails.

Can you even imagine showing up for an office job interview and they tell you the start time is 9am and finish time is midnight?

You would think they were insane.

Bearing in mind the invention of the artic trailer or demount swap bodies.
Why would the industry happily want to have trucks and drivers sitting around for up to 6 hours in a shift going nowhere.
At least until some bright manager says why aren’t we using the ‘driver’ for ‘other work’ during that downtime.
The truth is drivers themselves are mostly to blame for the 13-15 hour shift.As opposed to just saying no.They are here to drive for up to 9-10 hours not add 5-6 hours of POA or ‘other duties’ to that.The rest is up to the industry to sort out.

Sod me Sidevalve, the whole lorry game is arse about face with good people jacking in own account (once dead mans shoes) to go tramping or logistics.
Disciplinary for triggering a speeding ticket, heard it all now, they haven’t recruited a pointy shoe who says idiotic things like ‘‘i can drivers ten a penny’’ have they?

Meanwhile I see people in suits rushing for a train at 5.30 in the morning, spending two hours commuting to work, do a days work in the office, with a sandwich at their desk, they then have the same 2 hour commute home, they have meetings about meetings, send their kids to breakfast and after school clubs because mummy and daddy are too busy working to look after them.

The man on the train is also doing 16 hour days!

Juddian:
Sod me Sidevalve, the whole lorry game is arse about face with good people jacking in own account (once dead mans shoes) to go tramping or logistics.
Disciplinary for triggering a speeding ticket, heard it all now, they haven’t recruited a pointy shoe who says idiotic things like ‘‘i can drivers ten a penny’’ have they?

How DID you guess? I strongly suspect I ended up being made an example of by the hierarchy; admittedly I could have just shrugged it off, it wasn’t so much the disciplinary as the way they handled it which ■■■■■■ me off. Put a shadow over my Christmas holiday cos however much you try to blank it, it’s in the back of your mind that you’re going to be on the carpet.

I actually stuck it out for nearly six months before I finally jacked it in went for a couple of interviews with other hauliers before this one came along; another long-serving driver (37 years service) quit a couple of months before me which genuinely shocked all of us because we thought he was there till retirement. He, however, was a gentle quiet soul who didn’t get on with our transport manager; whilst admittedly the bloke has a short fuse and is definitely NOT a morning person, I always found him to be honest, straight and fair and you can’t ask for more than that so I didn’t have those issues. Add to that, since I’ve served in the Army I’ve been shouted at by professionals so I’m not too bothered by a noisy gaffer. To his credit, he bought me a slab of Guinness when I left and wished me well, we remain on good terms. Never burn your bridges.

Wheel Nut:
Meanwhile I see people in suits rushing for a train at 5.30 in the morning, spending two hours commuting to work, do a days work in the office, with a sandwich at their desk, they then have the same 2 hour commute home, they have meetings about meetings, send their kids to breakfast and after school clubs because mummy and daddy are too busy working to look after them.

The man on the train is also doing 16 hour days!

A 4 hour commute is not work. You can sit back, put a film on the phone and chill on the journey to and from work.

Sidevalve:

Juddian:
Sod me Sidevalve, the whole lorry game is arse about face with good people jacking in own account (once dead mans shoes) to go tramping or logistics.
Disciplinary for triggering a speeding ticket, heard it all now, they haven’t recruited a pointy shoe who says idiotic things like ‘‘i can drivers ten a penny’’ have they?

How DID you guess? I strongly suspect I ended up being made an example of by the hierarchy; admittedly I could have just shrugged it off, it wasn’t so much the disciplinary as the way they handled it which ■■■■■■ me off. Put a shadow over my Christmas holiday cos however much you try to blank it, it’s in the back of your mind that you’re going to be on the carpet.

I actually stuck it out for nearly six months before I finally jacked it in went for a couple of interviews with other hauliers before this one came along; another long-serving driver (37 years service) quit a couple of months before me which genuinely shocked all of us because we thought he was there till retirement. He, however, was a gentle quiet soul who didn’t get on with our transport manager; whilst admittedly the bloke has a short fuse and is definitely NOT a morning person, I always found him to be honest, straight and fair and you can’t ask for more than that so I didn’t have those issues. Add to that, since I’ve served in the Army I’ve been shouted at by professionals so I’m not too bothered by a noisy gaffer. To his credit, he bought me a slab of Guinness when I left and wished me well, we remain on good terms. Never burn your bridges.

I usually agree with the vast majority of your posts Valve, but in all honesty I disagree with the burnt bridges bit.

If a firm ■■■■■■ on you, why on earth would you consider going back? Especially given the current and probable long term driver shortage. Money should not ever come before principle in regards to wagon steering, we get treated poorly enough as it is.

msgyorkie:

Wheel Nut:
Meanwhile I see people in suits rushing for a train at 5.30 in the morning, spending two hours commuting to work, do a days work in the office, with a sandwich at their desk, they then have the same 2 hour commute home, they have meetings about meetings, send their kids to breakfast and after school clubs because mummy and daddy are too busy working to look after them.

The man on the train is also doing 16 hour days!

A 4 hour commute is not work. You can sit back, put a film on the phone and chill on the journey to and from work.

To be fair, most 15 hour days in HGV land also involve a significant amount of time spent chilling while watching YouTube etc.

The main difference being that Mr Commuter does it while perched on a seat in close proximity to any number of other commuters, while Mr HGV has his own space/bunk etc.

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Grumpy_old_trucker:
Drivers are their own worst enemy…….Fact.
Deny it all you like but we’ve all done it, parked up on 14 hours 55 and set the alarm for just short of 9 hours and sat watching the tacho click over to 9 hours before pressing the button to other work and setting off 2 mins later!
Whilst we’re doing that the gaffer is still asleep cuddled up to his Mrs.
So who’s to blame for the state of the industry? Look in the mirror and there’s your answer.

This. I long since refused to do that any more. Recently on the run I seem to have ended up getting stuck on I’ve got shafted every single Friday night for the last several weeks so instead of getting home at 5am on a Saturday morning as I should do it’s been 7.30am so then that’s all of Saturday gone and you also end up getting later on Sunday too so that’s also half wasted. Monday is spent basically waiting to go to work so you don’t feel like you get a full weekend off like you do on days. So being agency I have the solution, I’m already only doing a 4 day week because I don’t want 50+hrs anymore so instead of taking a day off mid-week I’ll just move that to Friday and have a long weekend every weekend and bollox to them, not my problem. Worst that happens is I end up going somewhere else which before would’ve been a problem because Howdens were basically the best paying work in the county but no longer and even on days the lowest rate my agency pays for any work even pallet network local multidrop is within £2/hr and I can live with that.

Conor:

Grumpy_old_trucker:
Drivers are their own worst enemy…….Fact.
Deny it all you like but we’ve all done it, parked up on 14 hours 55 and set the alarm for just short of 9 hours and sat watching the tacho click over to 9 hours before pressing the button to other work and setting off 2 mins later!
Whilst we’re doing that the gaffer is still asleep cuddled up to his Mrs.
So who’s to blame for the state of the industry? Look in the mirror and there’s your answer.

This. I long since refused to do that any more. Recently on the run I seem to have ended up getting stuck on I’ve got shafted every single Friday night for the last several weeks so instead of getting home at 5am on a Saturday morning as I should do it’s been 7.30am so then that’s all of Saturday gone and you also end up getting later on Sunday too so that’s also half wasted. Monday is spent basically waiting to go to work so you don’t feel like you get a full weekend off like you do on days. So being agency I have the solution, I’m already only doing a 4 day week because I don’t want 50+hrs anymore so instead of taking a day off mid-week I’ll just move that to Friday and have a long weekend every weekend and bollox to them, not my problem. Worst that happens is I end up going somewhere else which before would’ve been a problem because Howdens were basically the best paying work in the county but no longer and even on days the lowest rate my agency pays for any work even pallet network local multidrop is within £2/hr and I can live with that.

I did it too…for the first 6 months.
I absolutely refuse now.

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Roymondo:

msgyorkie:

Wheel Nut:
Meanwhile I see people in suits rushing for a train at 5.30 in the morning, spending two hours commuting to work, do a days work in the office, with a sandwich at their desk, they then have the same 2 hour commute home, they have meetings about meetings, send their kids to breakfast and after school clubs because mummy and daddy are too busy working to look after them.

The man on the train is also doing 16 hour days!

A 4 hour commute is not work. You can sit back, put a film on the phone and chill on the journey to and from work.

To be fair, most 15 hour days in HGV land also involve a significant amount of time spent chilling while watching YouTube etc.

The main difference being that Mr Commuter does it while perched on a seat in close proximity to any number of other commuters, while Mr HGV has his own space/bunk etc.

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Hardly a valid comparison.
I sympathise with anyone with a lengthy commute …but the two are hardly comparable.

If you think drivers are safe at 13 hours I’d refer you to the many pieces of research suggesting the complete opposite.

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Roymondo:

msgyorkie:

Wheel Nut:
Meanwhile I see people in suits rushing for a train at 5.30 in the morning, spending two hours commuting to work, do a days work in the office, with a sandwich at their desk, they then have the same 2 hour commute home, they have meetings about meetings, send their kids to breakfast and after school clubs because mummy and daddy are too busy working to look after them.

The man on the train is also doing 16 hour days!

A 4 hour commute is not work. You can sit back, put a film on the phone and chill on the journey to and from work.

To be fair, most 15 hour days in HGV land also involve a significant amount of time spent chilling while watching YouTube etc.

The main difference being that Mr Commuter does it while perched on a seat in close proximity to any number of other commuters, while Mr HGV has his own space/bunk etc.

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Depends entirely on the type of work hgv driver is doing. RDCs, containers, some retail, then yeah, you spend a lot of your time doing nothing. On tankers, where I have done most of my work, it’s more like load, drive, unload, drive and load again, with breaks in where necessary. Not much time for YouTube when you’re responsible for getting your own load on and off every time

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