Will I get a infringment?

Hi all I am new here and a new driver last night was my first time driving with a company for class 2. I had someone else with me. We started at 11 pm on a 6-9 shift. We had a break at around 2.30 for 1 hour and 15 and then I took over driving and other work. We took a 18 min break at 8.30 as the guy told me who I was with that 15 mins is enough but I thought it should have been 30 mins as we had gone over 9 hour shift, when handing in tachos got told we would get a infringment. Was I right in saying we should have had 30 mins and not 15? Will I get fined ? Trying to get my head around all the tacho stuff. Any help would be much appreciated Thankyou Ryan

If an infringement is found on your card during a routine company download, you don’t get fined. The infringement system is there so that the operator can explain what you have done wrong.

Fines can happen at the side of the road in certain circumstances, but working time infringements are not something the DVSA can take action over at the side of the road.

Where is the infringement? All looks OK to me.

Best advice is to accept any infringement and try to understand what went wrong. Getting a couple of working time infringements as a new driver is not something to get worried about.

The easiest one to fall foul of is the six hour rule. Many an experienced driver loses track of when the last break finished and ends up working for 6 hours odd. It happens all the time. Are any of those drivers worried? Not really.

Hard to decipher that lot.

It seems like you don’t know your WTD/RTD breaks from your tacho breaks, (neither does this other guy) so you need to check this out

From what you’re written, it looks like you drove for 4 hours and 45 mins from 03:45 to 08:30, there’s your problem. That’s an infringement for sure.

You aren’t going to get fined - yet, but DVSA would certainly be “having a conversation” with you about that and depending on the person, you could get fined.

I don’t understand your “6 to 9 shift” when you say you started at 23:00. What were you doing? Other work?
An internal company infringement won’t be a fine but it could be the difference between you being asked back, and not being asked back.

There’s his infringment; 4h 45" drive time, though you have to look for it amongst what he’s written

Started driving 03:45 drove until 08:30

Depends how much driving and other work there was. I thought his concern was enough break for a 9+ hour shift.

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I don’t think he’s aware of the difference between WTD/RTD and EU hours, hence the link to the vid. He’s new, and confused (understandably) and this other driver hasn’t helped matters

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Driving and other work. Only actually driving for about half an hour at a time then doing other work for 20 mins then driving back again

This was my concern mate as we went over the 9hour shift. Got told to have a break at 2.30 for hour and 15 while pallets were being sorted and then loaded onto the truck

No not true. I wasn’t driving for 4hours and 45 mins. We went back at 3.45 ready to leave at 4am. So this 15 mins would be other work. Started driving at 4am and do other work in between not driving. But as we had gone over the 6-9hour shift and had now been driving and other work for nearly 6 hours should we of taken a half hour break instead of 15 mins (was actually 18mins on the tacho)

Then you need to be able to give details more clearly, because what you’re saying now is not the impression you were giving earlier.

Watch that video, learn the rules yourself, and don’t listen to other drivers

I think you are fine then. As long as you took a break before 6 hours of working time, and didn’t drive for 4.5 hours without taking a 45 minute break you are all clear.

As long as you take 45 minutes break in total over the course of the 9+ hour shift it doesn’t matter where it’s taken, as long as it’s not at the beginning or the end. It also needs to be taken in periods of at least 15 minutes of course.

Definitely worth watching and learning the video above. There is a lot of misinformation out there, even from experienced drivers.

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you cannot go over 6 hours between breaks at any point of the shift. you could have 45 min break after four hours of driving thinking your covered for the rest of the shift. but if you do any more than a further 6 hours you will need another 15

You were the only one who couldn’t understand him. He clearly stated (and you quoted him) driving and other work. No one can drive for more than 4:15 without the tacho flashing enough warning to wake the dead, so if there was any doubt, it was most likely that it was a WTD Infringement that he was worried about.

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The legislation says you must take a break before you exceed 6 hours straight of working. The legislation also defines a break as a period of 15 mins or more. So you don’t ever need a 30 mins break (for wtd). The only reference to 30 mins is for shifts lasting a total of more than 6 hrs but up to 9hrs, 30 mins is the total break(s) you need (excluding any breaks of less than 15 mins obviously).

What do you mean by a 6-9 shift??

i think what he means is a shift that is between 6 and 9 hours long

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@Rwelfo2 only you will know how much driving and other work you did from 03;45 and 08:30 and how much driving you did after that.

you had 1h 15 mins break which provided you didn’t work for more than 6 hours after 3:45 ie you finished your shift by 09.45 would of been enough for wtd. The extra 18 mins of break was probably so you didn’t breach the 6 hour rule because you may well of been getting close by the time you were back to the yard.

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I think that the confusion over the amount of break needed for the length of shifts is caused by the wording.

the amount of break needed for a shift between 6 and 9 hours long is 30 min however they change the wording for a shift that is longer than 9 hours by saying a total break of 45 is needed. its easy to miss the word total. Then when you get an example where the first 30 min break is split in 2 they say a break of 15 then work for 2 hours than a further break of 15. then when it comes to the next 15 they revert back to the 45

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Difficult to say without a full shift breakdown, but If you both have driven for no more then 4.5 hours and both cards were in the tacho in slot 1 and 2 and swapped over when changing driver and have had breaks for driving and the WTD as well then you in theory should not have any infringements.

Did you have both cards in slot 1 and 2 whilst driving or whilst the other person drove swapping cards when each of you drove.

The first 45 mins of POA is accepted as a valid break when driving double manning when a card is in slot 2 so any driving period up to the first 45 mins where the second card was in slot 2 would be classed as a break.

The other driver was probably suggesting the 15 mins break to not fall foul of the WTD of 6 hours without a break.

So I can’t see any reason yet as to why you would have an infringement, but as said we would need a full break down of the shift to be sure.

Either way if you ask to be explained as to why you got the infringment and also read up on tacho regs and WTD regs to ensure you know what you can and cannot do.

Obviously that is all assuming you selected the correct modes on both slot 1 and 2 for your breaks and other work.

I would think you will be fine, but the other driver assuming he is not a newish driver either should have known the rules himself.

If all of that is correct and you had enough breaks etc and poa when in slot 2 then the only way an infringement could be flagged is if their tacho analysis software is not set to accept the first 45 mins in slot 2 as a valid break under double manning rules.

It may well be that is why they are saying you will get an infringement, if so I’d be asking why when double manning their software is not set to accept the first 45 mins of POA in slot 2 as break.

Like I said I have assumed a few things on interpretation of what you have posted so it’s not a definitive answer.

A printout from that shift is the best way to check it all out.

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