fuse:
It is because they know their place.The boss can not pay fair wages because of the continued increase in costs ie Euro 5,6 flouresant sticky tape .diesel,driver cpc,cheap foreign competion.I think the most important thing on the truck the driver comes well down the pecking order when it comes to pay
This sums it up, all the extra costs have to be absorbed as rates are not keeping up with inflation, let alone everything else, the haulier has no choice but to pay them.
Whereas drivers are, as Harry’s supply and demand statement proves, ten a penny, so the haulier cuts costs in the easiest place, wages.
I think that wages are probably just about the only variable in an operator’s costs. Diesel, insurance, VED, tyres, operators have little or no control over the cost of those, and so if rates are static or falling then the only two places a saving can be made are in either the operator’s profit margin or the drivers’ wages. If an operator is making little of no profit then that only leaves wages.
It might be overstating it to say that drivers are “ten a penny” but there certainly doesn’t seem to be any great upturn in consumer spending and so little more demand for drivers than existed this time last year. Until demand for drivers does increase then I can only see wages continuing to fall in real terms.
Harry if you were to advertise for a driver with above average wages your phone would go into meltdown, so many drivers are trapped in a crap job or stuck on the agency…
fuse:
It is because they know their place.The boss can not pay fair wages because of the continued increase in costs ie Euro 5,6 flouresant sticky tape .diesel,driver cpc,cheap foreign competion.I think the most important thing on the truck the driver comes well down the pecking order when it comes to pay
This sums it up, all the extra costs have to be absorbed as rates are not keeping up with inflation, let alone everything else, the haulier has no choice but to pay them.
Whereas drivers are, as Harry’s supply and demand statement proves, ten a penny, so the haulier cuts costs in the easiest place, wages.
I think that wages are probably just about the only variable in an operator’s costs. Diesel, insurance, VED, tyres, operators have little or no control over the cost of those, and so if rates are static or falling then the only two places a saving can be made are in either the operator’s profit margin or the drivers’ wages. If an operator is making little of no profit then that only leaves wages.
It might be overstating it to say that drivers are “ten a penny” but there certainly doesn’t seem to be any great upturn in consumer spending and so little more demand for drivers than existed this time last year. Until demand for drivers does increase then I can only see wages continuing to fall in real terms.
Which is also a reasonable description of the downward spiral that the economy is now subject to in general.The fact is the more wages fall the more economic growth will fall with them.IE inflation is price led whereas economic growth is wage led and dependent.Which of course doesn’t fit the script of the banker driven scam and the bs which the public have been and are being fed and obviously seem stupid enough to believe.In that inflation is supposedly wage led and controlling inflation is supposedly all about controlling and limiting wages.Which is the economics of the madhouse.Albeit a madhouse in which a few people at the top can make a lot of money from.So long as short term profits made from a low wage economy can outweigh the collapse in economic growth.
Carryfast:
Which is also a reasonable description of the downward spiral that the economy is now subject to in general.The fact is the more wages fall the more economic growth will fall with them.IE inflation is price led whereas economic growth is wage led and dependent.Which of course doesn’t fit the script of the banker driven scam and the bs which the public have been and are being fed and obviously seem stupid enough to believe.In that inflation is supposedly wage led and controlling inflation is supposedly all about controlling and limiting wages.Which is the economics of the madhouse.Albeit a madhouse in which a few people at the top can make a lot of money from.So long as short term profits made from a low wage economy can outweigh the collapse in economic growth.
Stop making posts like this. I don’t want to have to agree with you.
Carryfast:
Which is also a reasonable description of the downward spiral that the economy is now subject to in general.The fact is the more wages fall the more economic growth will fall with them.IE inflation is price led whereas economic growth is wage led and dependent.Which of course doesn’t fit the script of the banker driven scam and the bs which the public have been and are being fed and obviously seem stupid enough to believe.In that inflation is supposedly wage led and controlling inflation is supposedly all about controlling and limiting wages.Which is the economics of the madhouse.Albeit a madhouse in which a few people at the top can make a lot of money from.So long as short term profits made from a low wage economy can outweigh the collapse in economic growth.
Well, like I said, you can’t have Eastern prices and Western wages forever. We are paying the most terrible price for offshoring our entire manufacturing industry and it is only going to get worse. I’m certainly glad that I’m nearer the end of my working life than the beginning, God knows what the future holds for my kids.
Harry Monk:
Well, like I said, you can’t have Eastern prices and Western wages forever. We are paying the most terrible price for offshoring our entire manufacturing industry and it is only going to get worse. I’m certainly glad that I’m nearer the end of my working life than the beginning, God knows what the future holds for my kids.
Your kids future Harry, is the world that you helped create.
Don’t ever forget that & don’t ever try to distance yourself from what that world is. It is the world that you allowed to happen.
Carryfast:
Which is also a reasonable description of the downward spiral that the economy is now subject to in general.The fact is the more wages fall the more economic growth will fall with them.IE inflation is price led whereas economic growth is wage led and dependent.Which of course doesn’t fit the script of the banker driven scam and the bs which the public have been and are being fed and obviously seem stupid enough to believe.In that inflation is supposedly wage led and controlling inflation is supposedly all about controlling and limiting wages.Which is the economics of the madhouse.Albeit a madhouse in which a few people at the top can make a lot of money from.So long as short term profits made from a low wage economy can outweigh the collapse in economic growth.
Well, like I said, you can’t have Eastern prices and Western wages forever. We are paying the most terrible price for offshoring our entire manufacturing industry and it is only going to get worse. I’m certainly glad that I’m nearer the end of my working life than the beginning, God knows what the future holds for my kids.
In terms of the basics like housing,fuel,food and taxation we don’t have ‘Eastern prices’.What we’ve got is still mostly the price and taxation structure of a modern,civilised,western economy.
‘But’ one in which we’ve allowed the bankers to get away with the lie that we needed wage controls/lower wages in whatever form,to deal with the issue of ‘inflation’ and/or 'competitiveness,against economies in other parts of the world which can’t be described as modern developed or civilised,and/or to undercut other modern developed western economies like Germany.
While all the time the real agenda was always one of keeping the Germans happy in a rigged so called ‘single market’.
While at the same time stitching up American and British workers on the basis of sending the respective US and UK economies back into the stone age,from the workers’ point of view,while asset stripping them for all that they are worth and then investing the ill gotten gains in those low wage uncivilised economies in order to take advantage of the remaining difference between prices here as opposed to wages there.
Harry Monk:
Well, like I said, you can’t have Eastern prices and Western wages forever. We are paying the most terrible price for offshoring our entire manufacturing industry and it is only going to get worse. I’m certainly glad that I’m nearer the end of my working life than the beginning, God knows what the future holds for my kids.
Your kids future Harry, is the world that you helped create.
Don’t ever forget that & don’t ever try to distance yourself from what that world is. It is the world that you allowed to happen.
To be fair the only way that it could possibly have not been ‘allowed’ to happen,was by the general working class populations in the US and the UK,reaching the conclusion,that they were being led by a treacherous alliance of government ministers like Heath,Callaghan,Thatcher and Reagan who were working against the respective countries’ interests.Added to which the plan was obviously done in a planned,gradual,staged,hidden way to make it unnoticeable at the time when it mattered.In addition to that was the fact that the so called un biased free media had also been taken over to push the agenda.Just as is the case today with the bs global warming agenda.
Therefore it was an agenda which only the most disillusioned free thinking and open minded could have possibly have seen coming at the time.Those of us obviously,understandably,having been in a tiny minority.As I’ve said to give an idea of how small that tiny minority was,at least in this country,I’m referring to those of us who supported people like Enoch Powell and Peter Shore,as opposed to supporting the usual suspects listed above.
It would be interesting to find out who you were supporting at the time when it mattered assuming that you’re old enough to have done so.
Harry Monk:
Well, like I said, you can’t have Eastern prices and Western wages forever. We are paying the most terrible price for offshoring our entire manufacturing industry and it is only going to get worse. I’m certainly glad that I’m nearer the end of my working life than the beginning, God knows what the future holds for my kids.
Your kids future Harry, is the world that you helped create.
Don’t ever forget that & don’t ever try to distance yourself from what that world is. It is the world that you allowed to happen.
To be fair the only way that it could possibly have not been ‘allowed’ to happen,was by the general working class populations in the US and the UK,reaching the conclusion,that they were being led by a treacherous alliance of government ministers like Heath,Callaghan,Thatcher and Reagan who were working against the respective countries’ interests.Added to which the plan was obviously done in a planned,gradual,staged,hidden way to make it unnoticeable at the time when it mattered.In addition to that was the fact that the so called un biased free media had also been taken over to push the agenda.Just as is the case today with the bs global warming agenda.
Therefore it was an agenda which only the most disillusioned free thinking and open minded could have possibly have seen coming at the time.Those of us obviously,understandably,having been in a tiny minority.As I’ve said to give an idea of how small that tiny minority was,at least in this country,I’m referring to those of us who supported people like Enoch Powell and Peter Shore,as opposed to supporting the usual suspects listed above.
It would be interesting to find out who you were supporting at the time when it mattered assuming that you’re old enough to have done so.
I’m not saying your wrong CF but if you’re fair and open minded you’ll probably admit it’s all to easy to construct a conspiracy theory that retrospectively fits in nicely with the situation that we’re facing today, if you’re right about only the free thinking and open minded having been able to have see todays situation coming then as a member of that group you should be able to tell us something of what the future holds, or a fair approximation of where its leading, its all too easy predicting how those in the past got us to the present.
It’s obvious that the logical conclusion of the process which I’ve described is the gradual turning of the industrialised economy that we had before joining the EU and global free market economy,into a de industrialised one like that of Greece or Portugal etc.All of which was foreseen by those of us at the time who wanted no part of such an economy and who in fact were calling for protectionist policies in regard to British industry whereas those politicians from Heath to Thatcher were all about the total opposite to that.Hence the trade deficit which we had with Europe after joining the EU as opposed to the surplus before that.Then things just got worse by flogging off our oil and gas reserves and the planned run down of the coal mining industry and effectively giving away our manufacturing industry capabilities to cheap labour competitors.
IE what obviously started out as a scam to keep German workers happy for fear of future hostilities and supply Europe with oil and gas in exchange for manufactured products,that we could have made and were making for ourselves,then progressed into an even bigger scam based on the exploitation of cheap labour.
It’s just as easy to predict the eventual results of all that on the UK economy in the long term now as it was then being that government policy hasn’t changed much since.That being keeping the UK’s manufacturing industry and self sufficiency in energy provision out of the frame thereby making us over dependent on imports and keeping labour supply high,while also importing cheap labour to rig the labour market even more in the employers’ favour.With obviously predictable results of all that on our balance of payments,employment levels,and wage levels and the economic growth figures that depend on them.
newmercman:
OMG I never thought I would see Carryfast and open minded in the same sentance!!!
As I said I was always open minded enough to turn my back on the raving socialist Labour left while at the same time realising that the so called ‘Conservatives’ were in on the same scam of selling the place out to the foreign competition whatever and wherever that competion was.Just like Powell and Shore also realised.
It doesn’t matter who is in “power” though, Labour, Conservative, Liberal, ultra left or right, green party, whoever, they will all be working for the same banks and corporations, if they don’t, they have “accidents” and are no longer a problem.
The 99% will never turn on the 1% as they’ve been brainwashed by decades of media bs
The police are supposed to protect us, yet look what VOSA and the Constabularies are doing to lorry drivers, massive fines and threat of losing your licence for the slightest infringement from VOSA and the old bill are just a revenue gathering branch of government with a total empathy for diesel or cargo thefts, yet they’ll have you emptying your wallet for 5mph over the limit
We are supposed to feel reassured if we see a copper, but how many now feel nervous when we see them?
newmercman:
It doesn’t matter who is in “power” though, Labour, Conservative, Liberal, ultra left or right, green party, whoever, they will all be working for the same banks and corporations, if they don’t, they have “accidents” and are no longer a problem.
The 99% will never turn on the 1% as they’ve been brainwashed by decades of media bs
The police are supposed to protect us, yet look what VOSA and the Constabularies are doing to lorry drivers, massive fines and threat of losing your licence for the slightest infringement from VOSA and the old bill are just a revenue gathering branch of government with a total empathy for diesel or cargo thefts, yet they’ll have you emptying your wallet for 5mph over the limit
We are supposed to feel reassured if we see a copper, but how many now feel nervous when we see them?
That’s all just a symptom of that issue of the politicians being there for the bankers etc.The bankers set the political agenda and the forces of order work for the politicians.As for the wage issue as always it’s only by organised disciplined action that wages have ever been maintained throughout history.Although the idea of strong unions and such action being seen as bad and unacceptable is one of those issues that has been indoctrinated into the population for too long now by those decades of media brainwashing.IE it’s probably too late to reverse the situation.In which case Harry has got it right concerning what future generations probably face in the long term.
I agree with both Harry and you, however I don’t think collective bargaining will have the same impact it did in the 70s, back then the unions did wield some power, that has been eroded by the mass immigration of recent years.
Rather ironic that the biggest villain of them in respect of the damage done to the working classes is not Maggie Thatcher, but that treasonous ■■■■ Tony Blair
newmercman:
I agree with both Harry and you, however I don’t think collective bargaining will have the same impact it did in the 70s, back then the unions did wield some power, that has been eroded by the mass immigration of recent years.
Rather ironic that the biggest villain of them in respect of the damage done to the working classes is not Maggie Thatcher, but that treasonous [zb] Tony Blair
Very true. Also look how many people were employed by nationalised industries so the government were ultimatly there paymasters. Say if they screwed the coal miners that was a massive chunk of votes to loose back then. Look at the rover collapse in 2005 the government didnt bale it out and maybe lost a few thousand votes. If they done that in the 70s to british leyland they would have lost 100s of thousand votes.
Roverman:
This is a serious question, why do we put up with such low wages? I am working for £8.26 an hour (not through choice!) which is NOT the worst around the central belt in Scotland. 10 or12 years ago that was a good wage, now, it barely keeps the wolf from the door.
(Incidentally, my 12 year old daughter just asked me what I was doing on the computer and I told her the question I was posting, her reply was “Isn’t it because it’s such an easy job Dad?”)
Public perception of our industry is obviously as crap as ever…
I’ve been on t/net for years and there’s always been a obsession with hourly rate,I’ve never really got that,when I bought my house the b/ s never asked me what my hourly rate was,when I bought a car years and years ago on finance they never asked what my hourly rate was,it was along time aho but I’m sure it was p.a,no mention of p/ h.
I’ve had jobs where I’ve been on a salary night trunking and if you divided hours worked into guaranteed hours I was on about 15 p.h,Corby would pay £150 apx for a Saturday,I run up to Wakefield or a run down too cardinal,5/6 hrs,nearly £30 p.h
Now according too every man and his dog on here I’m in a poorly paid job,buttons,peanuts etc,etc, £7.75 p.h yet I earnt £814.37 ,net £636.70 last weekI really can’t remember earning that kind of wage when I was on £15 p.h,£30 p.h.
We’ve got poster/ posters going on this thread going on about tesco donny drivers,godhelp you if stobarts take over,implying you’ll be living in a cardboard box,living off scraps of food you find in bins I’m sorry but what a load of rubbish,I don’t know any poverty stricken stobart drivers,yet the implication on here is you won’t have a penny to rub together if you drive for them,misinformed drivel ,spouted by the I’m special,I work for a special company,who only employ special drivers,you’ve no chance of getting a job driving for them
I’m sorry mate but your getting taken in by it,most on here are in the same boat,loads of hours x low hourly rate+ bonuses- a decent more than liveable wage.
When you’ve no roof over your head,can’t put food on table,shoes on the kids then start worrying about your wage,
Ask these special drivers,special wages to post these waged up.you’ll just get can’t say,vulgar,we keep it quiet,says it all
Roverman:
This is a serious question, why do we put up with such low wages? I am working for £8.26 an hour (not through choice!) which is NOT the worst around the central belt in Scotland. 10 or12 years ago that was a good wage, now, it barely keeps the wolf from the door.
(Incidentally, my 12 year old daughter just asked me what I was doing on the computer and I told her the question I was posting, her reply was “Isn’t it because it’s such an easy job Dad?”)
Public perception of our industry is obviously as crap as ever…
Here you go
Decr. U/t. Rate. Cash
D/s/b. 6. 5.0. 30.00
M/a. 6. 15. 90.00
M-f. 26. 7.75. 201.52
M-f. 24.75. 8.67. 214.59
S/d. 4. 10.10. 40.40
S/d. 8.50. 11.63. 98.86
Su/d. 12.5. 11.12. 139.00
Gross £814.37
Net. £ 636.70
So if I can earn that on 7 p.h ,you should be on more as your on 8 p.h,well you should be as the implication on here is that the higher the hourly rate the more you earn I mean you can’t be on less,it’s not possible you hourly rates higher so you must be earning more,or that’s the theory according too t/nets financial experts
I’ve been reading the posts from the likes of Carryfast NMM and Harry and some notable others, and its amazing jusy how much common sense they have and how free thinking so many lorry drivers are, something to do with the individuality required to be involved with lorrying for so many years maybe?..be very interesting if we all met to discuss our life journeys, and why so many lorry drivers are similarly minded, put a few lorry drivers in a room full of other blokes and (green overalls and hi vis apart) they’d stick out like a sore thumb by not agreeing with 99% of the rest over most things being discussed here.
Whilst we may not agree with each other on every point, and that would be truly as awful as the liblabcon three cheeks of the same arse movement if we did, i think we, all free thinkers that is, can see what has gone wrong and why, unfortunately free thinking is not approved and is taught out of people now from their days in nappies, all we can do is try to make sure our own children retain their birthright of and independent mind.
Carryfast’s summary of the rise and fall of Britain is as true and fair as i’ve read, the last 40 years of destroyed UK industry just as in previous evil wars have seen millions of lions led by a few donkeys, who managed as always to float to the top and creamed massive fortunes for themselves whilst leading the surviving lions into relative poverty, as always discarded once no longer required, whether that be cannon fodder or required labour or as voters.
Is there a more stark example of this than the breakaway union of mineworkers, who once they’d served their purpose, were chucked on the scrap heap with the rest once no longer useful.
If anything the brainwashing of the electorate nation is getting worse, those in charge have encouraged the electronic online media, not only is it a useful spying tool to keep tabs on the proletariat, but it means constant propaganda is there 24/7…there’ll be more serious censorship soon though IMO, as many of us have found new technology useful for gaining knowledge not easily available (would never be printed in the bought and paid for MSM), and i suspect the move to ban ■■■■ and extremist sites from UK ISP’s is a smoke screen to cover the real purpose of the legislation, which is to not allow the wrong information through.
Who decides what can be seen, and who keeps an eye on the watchers.
Juddian:
I’ve been reading the posts from the likes of Carryfast NMM and Harry and some notable others, and its amazing jusy how much common sense they have and how free thinking so many lorry drivers are, something to do with the individuality required to be involved with lorrying for so many years maybe?..be very interesting if we all met to discuss our life journeys, and why so many lorry drivers are similarly minded, put a few lorry drivers in a room full of other blokes and (green overalls and hi vis apart) they’d stick out like a sore thumb by not agreeing with 99% of the rest over most things being discussed here.
Whilst we may not agree with each other on every point, and that would be truly as awful as the liblabcon three cheeks of the same arse movement if we did, i think we, all free thinkers that is, can see what has gone wrong and why, unfortunately free thinking is not approved and is taught out of people now from their days in nappies, all we can do is try to make sure our own children retain their birthright of and independent mind.
Carryfast’s summary of the rise and fall of Britain is as true and fair as i’ve read, the last 40 years of destroyed UK industry just as in previous evil wars have seen millions of lions led by a few donkeys, who managed as always to float to the top and creamed massive fortunes for themselves whilst leading the surviving lions into relative poverty, as always discarded once no longer required, whether that be cannon fodder or required labour or as voters.
Is there a more stark example of this than the breakaway union of mineworkers, who once they’d served their purpose, were chucked on the scrap heap with the rest once no longer useful.
If anything the brainwashing of the electorate nation is getting worse, those in charge have encouraged the electronic online media, not only is it a useful spying tool to keep tabs on the proletariat, but it means constant propaganda is there 24/7…there’ll be more serious censorship soon though IMO, as many of us have found new technology useful for gaining knowledge not easily available (would never be printed in the bought and paid for MSM), and i suspect the move to ban ■■■■ and extremist sites from UK ISP’s is a smoke screen to cover the real purpose of the legislation, which is to not allow the wrong information through.
Who decides what can be seen, and who keeps an eye on the watchers.
You’re so right. Now all you have to do is choose the concrete overcoat you’d like and in which part of the country and you’re sorted. Sounds daft but those who speak out and all that.
