newmercman:
And the important thing is, I like driving lorries and the whole trucking industry, it’s also my hobby, so I don’t class it as work anyway, so that’s another victory for me and also for ‘them’ as I don’t mind being a chain free slave to the system
^ This.Which probably explains why in general the road transport sector has historically been less militant than other sectors like manufacturing and mining etc.Where at least ‘some’ of that militancy could be explained by the grinding working conditions of the job where you live for finishing time at the end of the working week and then have to face it all again at the start of the new working week.There’s no way that a driver,in my case at least,would be able to stand that in the long term,whereas others can/could to enough of a degree to not walk away.
The biggest surprise in that case being actually how relatively little militancy there actually was in those sectors in real terms when that comparison is taken into account and what those with that type of ability to stay the distance in such jobs were actually worth,but were actually paid.
newmercman:
And the important thing is, I like driving lorries and the whole trucking industry, it’s also my hobby, so I don’t class it as work anyway, so that’s another victory for me and also for ‘them’ as I don’t mind being a chain free slave to the system
^ This.Which probably explains why in general the road transport sector has historically been less militant than other sectors like manufacturing and mining etc.Where at least ‘some’ of that militancy could be explained by the grinding working conditions of the job where you live for finishing time at the end of the working week and then have to face it all again at the start of the new working week.There’s no way that a driver,in my case at least,would be able to stand that in the long term,whereas others can/could to enough of a degree to not walk away.
The biggest surprise in that case being actually how relatively little militancy there actually was in those sectors in real terms when that comparison is taken into account and what those with that type of ability to stay the distance in such jobs were actually worth,but were actually paid.
In an nutshell because drivers do this job/career for a living AND enjoy it they should be expected to work for peanuts…? I have a mate who is a trainer of Pilots he said to me if they called me up and said dont come in I’d be upset/disappointed…what difference does that make to the grand number of us doing this for a living and not a vocation ? None.
newmercman:
And the important thing is, I like driving lorries and the whole trucking industry, it’s also my hobby, so I don’t class it as work anyway, so that’s another victory for me and also for ‘them’ as I don’t mind being a chain free slave to the system
^ This.Which probably explains why in general the road transport sector has historically been less militant than other sectors like manufacturing and mining etc.Where at least ‘some’ of that militancy could be explained by the grinding working conditions of the job where you live for finishing time at the end of the working week and then have to face it all again at the start of the new working week.There’s no way that a driver,in my case at least,would be able to stand that in the long term,whereas others can/could to enough of a degree to not walk away.
The biggest surprise in that case being actually how relatively little militancy there actually was in those sectors in real terms when that comparison is taken into account and what those with that type of ability to stay the distance in such jobs were actually worth,but were actually paid.
In an nutshell because drivers do this job/career for a living AND enjoy it they should be expected to work for peanuts…? I have a mate who is a trainer of Pilots he said to me if they called me up and said dont come in I’d be upset/disappointed…what difference does that make to the grand number of us doing this for a living and not a vocation ? None.
It’s not a case of being expected to work for peanuts because it’s an easier job to live with.It’s a case of the difference in motivation,which that difference can result in,when push comes to shove in the form of walking out on indefinite strike until the guvnor pays up.Which has historically been the only way that workers have maintained/increased their living standards.
The problem in this case being that driving isn’t the type of job that makes that decision as easy as it was in the case of working on the line at Ford for example.Added to that is union laws that prevent secondary/sympathy action and working in a country that’s now an industrial wasteland and competition from East European cheap labour with resulting labour supply ‘issues’ to match.
newmercman:
And the important thing is, I like driving lorries and the whole trucking industry, it’s also my hobby, so I don’t class it as work anyway, so that’s another victory for me and also for ‘them’ as I don’t mind being a chain free slave to the system
^ This.Which probably explains why in general the road transport sector has historically been less militant than other sectors like manufacturing and mining etc.Where at least ‘some’ of that militancy could be explained by the grinding working conditions of the job where you live for finishing time at the end of the working week and then have to face it all again at the start of the new working week.There’s no way that a driver,in my case at least,would be able to stand that in the long term,whereas others can/could to enough of a degree to not walk away.
The biggest surprise in that case being actually how relatively little militancy there actually was in those sectors in real terms when that comparison is taken into account and what those with that type of ability to stay the distance in such jobs were actually worth,but were actually paid.
In an nutshell because drivers do this job/career for a living AND enjoy it they should be expected to work for peanuts…? I have a mate who is a trainer of Pilots he said to me if they called me up and said dont come in I’d be upset/disappointed…what difference does that make to the grand number of us doing this for a living and not a vocation ? None.
It’s not a case of being expected to work for peanuts because it’s an easier job to live with.It’s a case of the difference in motivation,which that difference can result in,when push comes to shove in the form of walking out on indefinite strike until the guvnor pays up.Which has historically been the only way that workers have maintained/increased their living standards.
The problem in this case being that driving isn’t the type of job that makes that decision as easy as it was in the case of working on the line at Ford for example.Added to that is union laws that prevent secondary/sympathy action and working in a country that’s now an industrial wasteland and competition from East European cheap labour with resulting labour supply ‘issues’ to match.
ANYBODY can walk away from a job/career…this not the issue…nor is the point of East European labour. It’s ■■■■■■■■ to think they could fill UK drivers shoes. Many companies have insurance issues with non UK passed drivers as we all know so the issue of liability in respect of accidents and many other points would be raised. No the issue still falls on a FAIR PAY.
newmercman:
And the important thing is, I like driving lorries and the whole trucking industry, it’s also my hobby, so I don’t class it as work anyway, so that’s another victory for me and also for ‘them’ as I don’t mind being a chain free slave to the system
^ This.Which probably explains why in general the road transport sector has historically been less militant than other sectors like manufacturing and mining etc.Where at least ‘some’ of that militancy could be explained by the grinding working conditions of the job where you live for finishing time at the end of the working week and then have to face it all again at the start of the new working week.There’s no way that a driver,in my case at least,would be able to stand that in the long term,whereas others can/could to enough of a degree to not walk away.
The biggest surprise in that case being actually how relatively little militancy there actually was in those sectors in real terms when that comparison is taken into account and what those with that type of ability to stay the distance in such jobs were actually worth,but were actually paid.
In an nutshell because drivers do this job/career for a living AND enjoy it they should be expected to work for peanuts…? I have a mate who is a trainer of Pilots he said to me if they called me up and said dont come in I’d be upset/disappointed…what difference does that make to the grand number of us doing this for a living and not a vocation ? None.
It’s not a case of being expected to work for peanuts because it’s an easier job to live with.It’s a case of the difference in motivation,which that difference can result in,when push comes to shove in the form of walking out on indefinite strike until the guvnor pays up.Which has historically been the only way that workers have maintained/increased their living standards.
The problem in this case being that driving isn’t the type of job that makes that decision as easy as it was in the case of working on the line at Ford for example.Added to that is union laws that prevent secondary/sympathy action and working in a country that’s now an industrial wasteland and competition from East European cheap labour with resulting labour supply ‘issues’ to match.
ANYBODY can walk away from a job/career…this not the issue…nor is the point of East European labour. It’s [zb] to think they could fill UK drivers shoes. Many companies have insurance issues with non UK passed drivers as we all know so the issue of liability in respect of accidents and many other points would be raised. No the issue still falls on a FAIR PAY.
Which part of life has never been ‘fair’ don’t you understand.The only way that the working classes have ever maintained/increased their living standards throughout history is by fighting for it in the form of industrial action.As I’ve said that generally isn’t as easy now as it’s been in the past for obvious reasons mostly related to anti union laws and labour supply issues which make it ( much ) easier now than previously to break strikes.You can then add to that the fact that,as I’ve said,the job itself isn’t one of those noted for militancy amongst it’s workforce.At least in some part owing to the fact that it’s an easier job to live with than working on a production line for example.
I’ll add another thing into the mix, I actually don’t think lorry driving is a badly paying job, not in general, but from my own personal experiences.
I am definitely one of the ‘wouldn’t get out of bed for less than ■■’ and that is not waiting room bravado, it’s a fact, I have always been lucky in that respect, I command a decent wage, it may not be a decent wage compared to a butcher, baker, candlestick maker, but I’ve always been in top 10% of lorry driver’s wages.
So why do I want to strike, the demands of the strike may even be less than my current (hypothetical) earnings, so I would be voting for a pay cut.
I have quite a decent CV as it happens, but even in the early days of my career I had some very good jobs, I wasn’t anything special and made all the common mistakes, including some proper stonkers.
Yet I knew my value and communicated it well enough to be taken seriously, I often said when told that they couldn’t afford what I wanted that it was more a case of could they afford not to have me and in most cases that worked out fine for both parties and as I said, I’m nothing special.
There are many out there like me too, so it isn’t just a case of no solidarity between drivers, sometimes it’s a case of why would I want to strike to get a worse deal than the one I currently have…
Thats the problem my job pays pretty well for the hours i do although its not everyones cup of tea so would a strike be a good move for me and the other 40 or so drivers at my firm. Plus many others with decent paiying and t&c.
Same as nmm ive been fairly lucky to always have half decent jobs which to a certain extent is to do with been from an area which by its nature needs lots of drivers due to the population size and its needs and whats left of local industury which in turn helps keep wages a bit better.
What I can’t understand about Solidarity is that it’s supposed to have begun in Eastern Europe - ie Poland, but the entire idea implies that they have jolly good Union efficiency… When in fact the influx of Eastern Europeans seems to have totally trashed Unions in this country as surely as if we’d been “Miners Part Deux” or something.
Communisim works in paper not in reality. As you say our friends from the east are one reason wages havent risen in the last few years for lots of people drivers included. Given the choice between eating beetroot soup driving a tractor on a collective farm or driving a nice car and having a big tv driving a lorry in western europe that will turn the head of all but the most staunch marxist.
NewLad:
I’d work for free to drive a Scania P400 with a full set of kelsa lights, a set of frillies for the windows and a couple of Michelin men on the front, tell you what chuck in a dream catcher and I’ll work Saturday too!
And what about the rayban aviator shades for christ sake?
Winseer:
What I can’t understand about Solidarity is that it’s supposed to have begun in Eastern Europe - ie Poland, but the entire idea implies that they have jolly good Union efficiency… When in fact the influx of Eastern Europeans seems to have totally trashed Unions in this country as surely as if we’d been “Miners Part Deux” or something.
The Communist system is ironically more along the lines of Thatcher’s and Reagan’s regimes and where we’re headed now as a result.IE weak unions,if any,working under an exploitative low wage system that’s all about making a very few people at the top very rich at the expense of everyone else and the nation’s economy.
The Polish unions were just as weak in that regard as all those in the other Commy bloc countries.Solidarity was actually a political protest movement not an industrial one which was set up to start the process of taking those eastern bloc countries out of the Russian sphere of influence and bringing them under the European one,with the obvious aim of exploiting that cheap labour supply.While the naive East Euros just saw the carrot of more subsidies from the EU and better wages in the west than the Russians were giving them.The rest is history and the Ukraine is the latest example of the continuation of that process.
newmercman:
I’ll add another thing into the mix, I actually don’t think lorry driving is a badly paying job, not in general, but from my own personal experiences.
I am definitely one of the ‘wouldn’t get out of bed for less than ■■’ and that is not waiting room bravado, it’s a fact, I have always been lucky in that respect, I command a decent wage, it may not be a decent wage compared to a butcher, baker, candlestick maker, but I’ve always been in top 10% of lorry driver’s wages.
So why do I want to strike, the demands of the strike may even be less than my current (hypothetical) earnings, so I would be voting for a pay cut.
I have quite a decent CV as it happens, but even in the early days of my career I had some very good jobs, I wasn’t anything special and made all the common mistakes, including some proper stonkers.
Yet I knew my value and communicated it well enough to be taken seriously, I often said when told that they couldn’t afford what I wanted that it was more a case of could they afford not to have me and in most cases that worked out fine for both parties and as I said, I’m nothing special.
There are many out there like me too, so it isn’t just a case of no solidarity between drivers, sometimes it’s a case of why would I want to strike to get a worse deal than the one I currently have…
By that logic the general strike of 1926 and every other one since was a waste of time and they’d all have been better off if they’d have just said to the guvnor could you afford it if we all just walk away from the job on an individual basis.
The fact is there’s not much difference between your idea and calling a strike.It’s just that in general the idea of a proper solid strike is more likely to make the guvnor pay up.Until Thatcher defeated the unions that is.But you can bet that if striking for better terms and conditions won’t work just telling the guvnor that you’ll walk out the door on an individual basis won’t work either.
newmercman:
I’ll add another thing into the mix, I actually don’t think lorry driving is a badly paying job, not in general, but from my own personal experiences.
I am definitely one of the ‘wouldn’t get out of bed for less than ■■’ and that is not waiting room bravado, it’s a fact, I have always been lucky in that respect, I command a decent wage, it may not be a decent wage compared to a butcher, baker, candlestick maker, but I’ve always been in top 10% of lorry driver’s wages.
So why do I want to strike, the demands of the strike may even be less than my current (hypothetical) earnings, so I would be voting for a pay cut.
I have quite a decent CV as it happens, but even in the early days of my career I had some very good jobs, I wasn’t anything special and made all the common mistakes, including some proper stonkers.
Yet I knew my value and communicated it well enough to be taken seriously, I often said when told that they couldn’t afford what I wanted that it was more a case of could they afford not to have me and in most cases that worked out fine for both parties and as I said, I’m nothing special.
There are many out there like me too, so it isn’t just a case of no solidarity between drivers, sometimes it’s a case of why would I want to strike to get a worse deal than the one I currently have…
By that logic the general strike of 1926 and every other one since was a waste of time and they’d all have been better off if they’d have just said to the guvnor could you afford it if we all just walk away from the job on an individual basis.
The fact is there’s not much difference between your idea and calling a strike.It’s just that in general the idea of a proper solid strike is more likely to make the guvnor pay up.Until Thatcher defeated the unions that is.But you can bet that if striking for better terms and conditions won’t work just telling the guvnor that you’ll walk out the door on an individual basis won’t work either.
I don’t threaten to walk out the door, I don’t walk in it in the first place
kr79:
Thats the problem my job pays pretty well for the hours i do although its not everyones cup of tea so would a strike be a good move for me and the other 40 or so drivers at my firm. Plus many others with decent paiying and t&c.
Same as nmm ive been fairly lucky to always have half decent jobs which to a certain extent is to do with been from an area which by its nature needs lots of drivers due to the population size and its needs and whats left of local industury which in turn helps keep wages a bit better.
In an environment where wages are more or less the only competitive variable there’s no way that any operator will be able to sustain paying higher wages than their competitors.
While it’s obvious that local urban type work would probably pay more than long distance work because of the two issues of fuel costs v wage costs and arguably more drivers preferring the longer distance work sector than the urban local one.
newmercman:
I’ll add another thing into the mix, I actually don’t think lorry driving is a badly paying job, not in general, but from my own personal experiences.
I am definitely one of the ‘wouldn’t get out of bed for less than ■■’ and that is not waiting room bravado, it’s a fact, I have always been lucky in that respect, I command a decent wage, it may not be a decent wage compared to a butcher, baker, candlestick maker, but I’ve always been in top 10% of lorry driver’s wages.
So why do I want to strike, the demands of the strike may even be less than my current (hypothetical) earnings, so I would be voting for a pay cut.
I have quite a decent CV as it happens, but even in the early days of my career I had some very good jobs, I wasn’t anything special and made all the common mistakes, including some proper stonkers.
Yet I knew my value and communicated it well enough to be taken seriously, I often said when told that they couldn’t afford what I wanted that it was more a case of could they afford not to have me and in most cases that worked out fine for both parties and as I said, I’m nothing special.
There are many out there like me too, so it isn’t just a case of no solidarity between drivers, sometimes it’s a case of why would I want to strike to get a worse deal than the one I currently have…
I don’t threaten to walk out the door, I don’t walk in it in the first place
By that logic the general strike of 1926 and every other one since was a waste of time and they’d all have been better off if they’d have just said to the guvnor could you afford it if we all just walk away from the job on an individual basis.
The issue in most cases,at least in the modern days,was/is mostly about having walked in the door at a reasonable rate of pay and then price increases eroding that wage level without that wage figure actually changing.It’s obvious at that stage it’s going to be all about walking out the door either individually or as part of an organised strike.
As for your tactic being viable in 1926 when you had to effectively wait in line at the employers’ gates for a job offer and then ‘re apply’ daily for ‘your job’ against that available ‘competition’ that would have been another matter.
It’s obvious that we’re now since the 1980’s in a similar situation as that which existed in the 1920’s of excessive labour supply which is just how the CBI want it.
And that situation was similar to today’s, but now instead of taking a big chunk off a few, they take a medium sized chunk off us all
Wages haven’t kept up with inflation, you can cite supply and demand as the cause, but that’s ■■■■■■■■ really as the whole supply and demand thing is only benefiting the banks and corporations as that’s how capitalism works, the rich get richer…
Socialist policies don’t work either as the only money that goes in the pot comes from the workers, as soon as they run out of our money they just take more
The answer? I don’t know, but a good start would be a larger share for the working man, this would also benefit the banks and corporations as we would have more money to spend and would therefore invest more and buy more stuff, however they’re too greedy to realise this
Something carryfast has talked a lot of the fordist approach does seem the best. Pay decent wages so people can afford to spend money which keeps everyone in work but this doesn’t seem to be the route the super elite want to take.
