Why do I need to use POA?

BillyHunt:

happysack:

BillyHunt:
All it proves to me is that you didn’t have to use poa, you could use other work, and why are you tipping on break anyway?
And no, it’s not nessessarily covered in the dcpc, even though I think it should be a core subject but that’s another thread.

So if you are on a loading bay for 2 hours, you would keep it on other work? Let’s say it’s a back door load. You have opened the doors and reversed onto the bay. You then toddle off and sit in a waiting room or canteen. Or even your cab. 2 hours later you are given your paperwork and you can go. Would you have just used 2 hours other work or poa?

Let’s also say you are on a set run. Every day you drive a total of 8 hours and spend 3 hours on bays. This gives you 11 hours of working time every day,55 hours a week. At the end of the reference period your hours will be sky high and you will more than likely be given a couple of days off, unpaid, to compensate.

In your first scenario I use other work, simply because I don’t know how long I’ll be there, and the unloaders won’t tell you how long it will be, so technically it cannot be used for poa. I’m at work, not on break but ready to work at anytime as I don’t know how long I’ll be on the bay, sometimes 10-15 mins sometimes 90 mins -2hrs. As for your second scenario I don’t do set runs, every day is different, so again I don’t use poa as I can manage my hours.
This whole thread shows just how ridiculous the POA situation is, as usual everyone has a different view on how it should work. In my opinion it should be simplified, or preferably scrapped altogether. You are either working, by driving, at work when loading/unloading/waiting, or on break or taking rest. Anything else is a fudge.

POA has always been a fudge to get around the Working Time Directive - simply designed to allow drivers to be “at work” (and therefore being paid) without clocking up “working time”.

POA is a period of time that is known in advance and should be paid for. ie the time spent on a ferry when crossing the channel. You can then move it if needed without affecting any breaks

If its just a wait when collecting or delivering then leave it on other work.

If you want to put it on break that’s your call as the driver. You have to monitor your driving time. POA does not affect your working time directive. If you work agency you have to declare POA on your time sheet but not sure how an employer desks with it as they are the ones who should be checking your driver card to make sure you’re having the correct breaks etc. They should tell you if you are doing anything wrong.

bjd:
The issue i have with POA is it reset you driving time after 45 min i think im right in saying in euro land poa counts as a break but it dosent in blighty i stand to be corrected

Yeah I’ve noticed that too, so its best to note down what driving time and other work you’ve done or you’ll have to do a print out to carry on. It was a pain in the ■■■ and very confusing when it happened.

ok so you arrive at a loading point and theres a cue which you no will take you an hour to get through can you put it on poa and lets say cue moves so you move forward then put it back on poa would that be acceptable ?
or does it need to be an unbroken period of time ? or would it be a better option to use break to keep your hours down ie same situation stoped in cue 10 min move forward another 10 exct and so on ?

bjd:
ok so you arrive at a loading point and theres a cue which you no will take you an hour to get through can you put it on poa and lets say cue moves so you move forward then put it back on poa would that be acceptable ?
or does it need to be an unbroken period of time ?

No, it will just add up. Same as using break. All time spent on break doesn’t count towards the WTD, same as POA, only 15min then a 30 or a straight 45min will reset your drive clock if using break which could mess up your day. Personally, POA is a farce, why does it reset the clock but not at the same time?

i think it resets driving time because in Europe a poa of 45 min counts as a break i might be wrong thow

bjd:
i think it resets driving time because in Europe a poa of 45 min counts as a break i might be wrong thow

You’d get slapped with an infringement if you tried that here. That is why I don’t use it.