As we seem to be suffering more and more auto boxes here that are, yes, yes, manuals with electronic shifting etc. and are generally pretty rubbish efforts. Better on fuel they say - pah, what rubbish. Better for the drive train etc - maybe, if you employ novices.
So, why aren’t Allison boxes more common ? I believe most dustcarts have them, but, anything bigger over here ?
Some vids to show you
Torque converter autos might well give the most pleasant driving experience IMO, but the power losses through the system add up to fuel wasted, or at least thats the general view which applies to most vehicles so equipped…certainly my proper auto cars have been heavier on fuel for having the box but driving ease and pleasure makes up for it.
Would be very interesting to see real live lorry fuel figures for comparison though, haven’t seen such comparisons that i can recall.
Agree with your general view of automanual boxes (Volvo excepted), generally poor and beaten in fuel conservation by proper drivers when driven manually, both fuel efficiency and maintaining speed and smooth normal progress.
Because they are ■■■■■■
biggerstuff:
Because they are [zb]!
Oh right. What experience do you have of them ?
biggerstuff:
Because they are [zb]!
I reckon he’s onto something, they were crap on the bins (various makes) & they’re crap on the Iveco Eurocargo, they’re also crap on the DAF LF & CF’s but not as bad as the Ivecos, although the same box the elecktrickery is a bit better (just).
I don’t know who managed to sell them to my former fleet buyer, but he must’ve been laughing all the way to the bank to collect his bonus, in the meantime the fuel bill soared same mpg for a 12 tonner eurocargo as we were getting for a 26 ton CF with 8 spd ZF manual 
. The fuel bill went down when the London branches swapped our new auto Ivecos for the old non LEZ compliant LF 6 spd manuals. The only plus about them was the fact you managed to annoy a multitude of car drivers when you pulled away from roundabouts, 1st - 2nd - 3rd - lose momentum - box has a little think - drops back to 2nd - rev nuts off it - lurch into 3rd - queue the Gareth Hunt waves from your o/s. The only time it was predictable was when you were fully freighted, except when you were going down some of Huddersfield’s finest hills on the sparrow ■■■■ like exhaust brake, the Ivecos loved changing up a gear at around 2500 rpm. The CF was a bit better but could never make it’s mind up, it had a nervous breakdown when in auto & cc when it started to climb the slightest of inclines, so you ran it in manual most of the time.
I reckon that top vid was a setup, the first truck had axle locks on but not diff locks, so only one side was getting power, I wonder if the 2nd truck had axle locks and diff locks on, so all wheels were getting drive.
Was this recent ? Apparently the box comes with a retarder ?
58, 59 & 60 plates
So, are you saying they are worse than the auto efforts we normally get here ?
Can’t speak from a truck driving point of view but the Scania & Dennis fire engines I have driven all have an Alison Auto box with retarder. They are a far better gearbox than the MAN & Volvo auto box that I have also used.
They are certainly better from a performance point of view.
My experience with Allison was limited to rigids and they were awful, over the past couple of years autos in general have got better, Daf CF & XF weren’t too bad to start with and software upgrades have tweaked them, however you can still get the dreaded kangaroo when slow manoeuvring. Over the last few months I’ve driven XF’s, Actros’, MAN’s and FH’s on 55 plates through to 61 plates and before & after software updates, I know that these aren’t Allison boxes but my general consensus is the 55 plate XF is better than the newer versions even with updates, the Mercs are somewhere in the middle with the MAN’s and out in front by a long way is the I-Shift whether on my 57 plate or the newer 59 plates, it’s not perfect (with 480 horses it can change a little too far up the revs for me, but on the 420’s it’s fine) but it’s somewhere ■■■■ near close. With double clutches combined with power-shifting on the near horizon for trucks we should be somewhere close to a gear-shifting utopia. IMO the use of a torque converter is a step backwards no matter how much gloss you put on the marketing, there are too many energy losses, whereas with double clutched boxes have relatively few, that’s why they’re used in Bugatti Veyrons (other super/hypercars are available), F1 and nowadays they’re in mainstream luxury cars, Mk4 Ford Galaxy for example (although peeps have complained that the software does needs tweaking, you’d have thought Ford would’ve had some help from sister company Volvo 
).
Interesting. Personally I find the MAN thee worst by far. Dreadful things 
MADBAZ:
biggerstuff:
Because they are [zb]!
I reckon he’s onto something, they were crap on the bins (various makes) & they’re crap on the Iveco Eurocargo, they’re also crap on the DAF LF & CF’s but not as bad as the Ivecos, although the same box the elecktrickery is a bit better (just).
I don’t know who managed to sell them to my former fleet buyer, but he must’ve been laughing all the way to the bank to collect his bonus, in the meantime the fuel bill soared same mpg for a 12 tonner eurocargo as we were getting for a 26 ton CF with 8 spd ZF manual
DAFMAD:
Interesting. Personally I find the MAN thee worst by far. Dreadful things
I’ll see your MAN and raise you a Stralis, try Iveco with satans box, a definition of driving hell…however it does have one thing going for it, the Ivecos engine is capable of providing something approaching useable power at low revs, something the usual MAN 440 doesn’t have.
Stralis amusingly fitted with a hill hold button, by the time the gearbox computer has had a meeting and decided what its going to offer you and then acted on it, the hill hold has released long before the bloody box can sort itself out and reapply power.
Back to real autos, what box is fitted to Terberg Tugs?..brilliant box for manouevering, total fine control just like my auto cars and 4x4’s have had.
Ah, but at least the Stralis will try and pull away in fifth and quckly (compared with an MAN) change to a lower one if that is too high. The MAN pulls away in 3rd, too low a lot of the time, and everything it does ir painfully slooooowwww
Probably a case of Horses for Courses, the Alison autobox has been fitted in fire appliances of different makes for many years and the fact that they still are today in Volvo, Dennis, Scania and others used by the different brigades speaks volumes of how suited these boxes are to this type of machine. Also maintenance staff are well used to these boxes and overall they give little trouble and are easy for the service driver to operate, who by the way are not HGV drivers per say, they are taught to drive the vehicles and obtain the Auto license but they know little of what it takes to be a ‘Lorry Driver’, unless they have previous experience before joining.
Something else that may not be apparent to most is the different regional fire services (brigades not used now!) throughout the UK all have their own way of speccing their fleet, unlike the military which basically use the same vehicles whatever unit or arm of service. What might work or be right for one fire service won’t be for another even in a neighbouring area. However back to the Alison box, it is used in the US in heavier vehicles than here and again for many years, its a well designed, efficient box (more than one model I might add) but I’m not even sure its been considered for modern haulage use here. I recall ESSO used them in the Sixties in the 500 Dodges but I heard little about them since then until I joined the fire service many years later. Franky.