I can’t understand why people think young drivers can’t drive a twin split ,its got to be the easiest manual box there is ,you never forget what gear your in,young chris who just passed his class 2 and has no lorry background what so ever drives an ec11 with twin split he’s like a duck to water .trying to explain a 5 speed crash box with a eaton 2 speed to someone now thats difficult,when you tell them to change 2 speed and gear at same time with out clutch ,or that the higher up the box you go the ratios become the same until high 4th is faster than low 5th they can’t get it.
I’ll refer to my earlier comments and again ask the quesstion – are there more roll over accidents these days or does it sound like more because of comprehensive radio traffic reports.
I also think that some of these comments posted have a tinge of “Luddite” responses within them.
When I worked for Shell Mex & BP [back when Nelson had two eyes] we were shown how to drive “Bullnose” Scammells – double ratchet handbrakes and a gated crash gearbox etc. We even had lessons on how to reverse them as the response times when manouvering was like nothing we had experience of before, a party trick was to leave in reverse on engine tickover [hand throttle] & step out to walk along side judging position/line of trailer.
Very clever are your comments I hear you say – I bet a young driver now couldn’t do that or know how to do that !!
Mind point is why should he know – it’s progress & like a lot of the things from “the good old days” they don’t need to know !!
Yes I will admit that to us old 'uns trucks now seem over engineered and we couldn’t repair one with a metal coat hanger + trailer bungee to get home, but lets be honest we’d all sooner drive a nice new modern truck as opposed to an old Atki with newspaper stuffed in the body work to keep the wind out and an old greatcoat over our knees as a heater.
One comment that hasn’t been made is the position of the trailer pin nowdays – a lot deeper than in by-gone days & thus coupling head of trailer nearer to cab. When turning it thus obviously leaves a lot of front end sticking out [as they say] and depending on loading + weight distribution this can be a problem…
May be if there is a increase in roll overs its down to modern vehicles giving inexperienced drivers too much confidence ,also you have to ask who designs some of these junctions and roads .
Solly:
Some cracking comments and reasons in this topic as to why “Roll-overs” appear to occur in today’s industry. It’s probably a valid argument that air suspended seats, softer suspension, and braking systems don’t really give a true feel as to how the vehicle is responding to road/weather conditions, driving speeds etc. Many older boys may think, as I do, that these modern introductions to wagon design maybe give today’s driver a false sense of security that they cannot respond to quickly enough in times of emergency. Although it is a step up in driver care I agree that comfort, cosiness and very little in cab interaction with the vehicle ie due to lack of gear changes etc would tend to make a driver lax in his observations. That’s when things become dangerous and maybe on too many occasions everything goes ■■■’s up.
Suspension seats are nothing new.I think the modern ideas concerning reliance on the brakes without sequential downshifting using a constant mesh box on the approach to hazards like roundabouts etc might explain some roll overs caused by excessive entry speeds.But roll overs on straight stretches of road or sweeping bends might probably be explained more by centre of gravity issues.IE 40 foot trailers running at up to 32 t gross then as opposed to 45 foot trailers running at up to 44 t gross now.Which means you’ve only got an extra 5 foot in length to find room for an extra 12 t gross weight although admittedly much of that extra weight now is made up of the extra unladen weight of the vehicle compared to the older wagons.
However that still leaves some scope for more weight being carried higher up instead of it being spread out across a longer load deck length.Having driven a multilift wagon with high centre of gravity loads both bulk refuse and plant I found that it was that which was the most important aspect in determining the handling of different types of trucks with nothing like the amount of concentration and respect being needed when driving artics and drawbars loaded at ( often a lot ) less than 40 t gross compared to that old 16 tonner Clydesdale loaded to it’s limits together with the disadvantage of it having a much higher centre of gravity.
Mayby something to do with all those silly lights they need on the roof these days, making them top heavy. 
Here we go, it the old chestnut, “I’ve had my licence for 70 years Sonny, so i’m better than you” style of thread again. Just because someone hasn’t driven what you were used to, doesn’t make them any less of a human being than you.
I was once told to go out on one of the 8 wheel bulk blowers in the yard. I saidthat I wasn’t sure about the gear box. “don’t worry you’ll be fine, you’ve got a licence” was the reply from the office. Ok I got the hang of it eventually, with the help of a few phone calls to the fitter!
I had driven a twin splitter before, but that was only shunting a timber trailer round a sawmill at nights.
Regarding more rollovers? Maybe its because every crash that causes congestion is reported by sally traffic? Or maybe because a crash or rollover can be photographed and posted online in seconds? If a stobart wagon goes over you could end up with pages on here slagging the driver/company off.
Also there is a lot more traffic on the roads now than in the “golden years”, more cars and more wagons. Also are all these rollovers just younger drivers? I wonder if any of them are caused by older drivers? Oh silly me I forgot, older drivers wouldn’t roll a wagon because they have driven a crash gearbox/twin splitter/single line braked wagon/unsprung seat/no radio wagon etc.
Could some of you old time trucking gods also tell me why in these modern ages of having showers in the services/truck stops/customers yards etc, do some of you still steadfastly refuse to wash from one week to the next, preferring stale body odour and diesel to the smell of soap and deodorant?
Me? Ok I haven’t been driving lots of years and don’t come from generations of drivers. But I did start before sat nav was common place. I used my map to find my way around, often doing farm deliveries one day or finding a drop in a city centre the next. I also worked on timber wagons. 9 times out of 10 a map book is no use on that job. Ordnance survey map can be three only way to find a job, if indeed the forest is actually named, often its a hand drawn map on a ■■■ packet.
Times change but let’s not knock every young or new driver.
@C/F Not exactly sure this is relevant mate.
happysack:
Could some of you old time trucking gods also tell me why in these modern ages of having showers in the services/truck stops/customers yards etc, do some of you still steadfastly refuse to wash from one week to the next, preferring stale body odour and diesel to the smell of soap and deodorant?..
Not me mate, because the issue has been discussed on another thread. BTW No disrespect but are you suggesting personal appearance causes “Roll-over”?
No, I was just being curious.
Carryfast mentions the current trend of “reliance on the brakes”. 
I live in Dewsbury and the town is at the bottom of threes main roads into the town, (Halifax, Wakefield and Leeds), steep hills. 90% of the heavy traffic uses those roads and the way the modern drivers perform bloody terrifies me. 30/40 ton…AT SPEED downhill and relying 100% on the brakes, and why the hell bus drivers with full loads of passengers feel the need to actually ACCELERATE downhill I don’t know. I’m sorry, but however good and reliable modern day vehicle systems are, these people are NOT “drivers”. I used to come down the Halifax road with with 4000 gallons on, the Jake brake growling away all the time, it’s inviting trouble to rely on the brakes and it’s only a matter of time before “it” happens…
Here we go, it the old chestnut, “I’ve had my licence for 70 years Sonny, so i’m better than you” style of thread again.
Wrong. I am not reading that anyone is saying that or meaning it. The discussion was about the number or roll overs band my comments were intended to indicate - not understood it seems - that the ‘improvements’ that have happened in commercial vehicle design may be a contributing factor, along I suspect, with the increasing use of double deck trailers. I have worked from the time when cab suspension was unknown to the time when it is on everything and, in my stupid old opinion, it reduces the ‘feel’ that we used to have of how the vehicle is behaving and if the driver is pushing his luck and in my time I spent many years on hanging meat which has always been a prime candidate for rollovers. With each developement of vehicles that I have driven this sensation has been reduced by ‘better’ and better suspension. For example the Volvo F89 that had 2 shock absorbers and springs at the back of the cab and a solid pivot at the front. The suspension made it noticably more comfortable without disconnecting the driver from what was happening but more and more the later vehicles have totally insulated the driver from the road - the last and worst have been the Magnum or the MAN, both with full cab airsuspension. I believe that these developments will add to the risk of accidents where no account is being taken of the road or the vehicle and the driver floats along saved from the feel of the what is happening. Another example of this disconnection, which I have also experienced, was when we ‘devolped’ from open face helmets to full face helmets on bikes. Everyone at the time had the same experience and that was that their speed increased to a dangerous degree because they no longer had the ‘input’ of the wind on your face.
On the subject of showers the problem that we had was that when we wanted a shower there were very few available for those who slept in their cabs. But it did not mean that we could not get a wash and using overalls and gloves for working outside the cab meant that we could stay pretty respectable you know.
So I am not having a go at younger drivers, quite the opposite. I could not do the job that they do anymore because I would not be treated like it seems you to have to be in RDCs nor could I become the ‘machine’ that the electronic tacho or satellite tracking wants you to be. We did the job for the freedom and that had all gone now. But I completely refuse to apologise to anybody for the years of experience that I have or the things that I have done or seen.
David
i have always hated that hill down into dewsbury . i’ve always gone down nice and steady , but i’m sure there is a lorry detector on the lights at the bottom , they never fail to go onto red when you are 10yards off , is it yorkshire logic ? cheers , dave
Tell you what, the way some come down those hills a set of red lights stands no chance if it all goes ■■■■ up halfway down, it’s bye, bye, Town Hall AND it did happen many years ago, it took best part of two years to shore the building up and do the repairs, happily the driver did survive.
David Miller:
Here we go, it the old chestnut, “I’ve had my licence for 70 years Sonny, so i’m better than you” style of thread again.
… I am not reading that anyone is saying that or meaning it…the ‘improvements’ that have happened in commercial vehicle design may be a contributing factor… I have worked from the time when cab suspension was unknown to the time when it is on everything and, in my stupid old opinion, it reduces the ‘feel’ that we used to have of how the vehicle is behaving and if the driver is pushing his luck… With each developement of vehicles that I have driven this sensation has been reduced by ‘better’ and better suspension…Volvo F89…The suspension made it noticably more comfortable without disconnecting the driver from what was happening but more and more the later vehicles have totally insulated the driver from the road… I believe that these developments will add to the risk of accidents where no account is being taken of the road or the vehicle and the driver floats along saved from the feel of the what is happening…
On the subject of showers the problem that we had was that when we wanted a shower there were very few available for those who slept in their cabs. But it did not mean that we could not get a wash and using overalls and gloves for working outside the cab meant that we could stay pretty respectable you know.
So I am not having a go at younger drivers, quite the opposite. I could not do the job that they do anymore because I would not be treated like it seems you to have to be in RDCs nor could I become the ‘machine’ that the electronic tacho or satellite tracking wants you to be. We did the job for the freedom and that had all gone now. But I completely refuse to apologise to anybody for the years of experience that I have or the things that I have done or seen.
David
+1 Again.
Others may/will disagree but IMHO sums it up very nicely …David.