Rjan…you are very much in the mould of George Galloway…A Useful Idiot
Rjan, you’re simply in a world of your own here. It’s understandable for someone to pass the blame around, but in your case you seem oblivious to what’s even going on around you. Everything written here you can follow up on the Internet, it isn’t a secret. The next terrorist attack isn’t going to come from a white European racist is it. Even ISIS have said they’re sending terrorists to the west. Do you think they’re joking?
What can we as a country do? We can follow the examples of Hungary and Poland in Europe and just about every other country in the world. Ignore the EU ‘refugee quotas’ and ‘open borders.’ No more of this, ‘wherever I lay my hat that’s my home’ nonsense, or Sharia courts and severely limit any further Muslim immigration. Those who learn the language and put British law above their religion get granted settled status and the rest are returned where they came from. That’s not right wing or racist, its common practice across the world.
The central thing to understand Islam is that it’s not a belief. You ‘submit’ to Islam and it was designed to unite the Arabian war-like tribes centuries ago. It’s not a belief, it’s a requirement. The Quran can never be altered and why many Muslims appear so backward in a modern nation state. The majority are never going to adopt democratic western culture as it’s completely alien to them. The test then is does a Muslim put a centuries old religion above British law? If the answer is yes, it’s deportation time.
It’s taken less than 20 years for millions across the west to be convinced that what is happening isn’t. The EU and its multicultural diversity is the biggest indoctrination exercise in history. Look back over recent times. When did Muslim terrorism target the UK? When did we start to become a multicultural society? When did the third-world start to arrive in unprecedented numbers? None of this was even imagined 30 years ago and so something changed. That change was the EU with its multiculturalism and diversity, coupled with political correctness that produced what is happening today.
I mean, how much longer does the terrorism have to continue not only in Britain but all over the world where Muslims immigrate into non-Muslim countries before you begin to see the link between Islam and its war with non-Muslims?
Grandpa:
You now say it’s possible to trace back human rights to previous developments, where previously you said it was a recent phenomenon.
I’m merely acknowledging that popular democracy was the result of an evolutionary process.
To acknowledge that something earlier has evolved into something later through a series of smaller ■■■■■■■■■■ innovations, is not the same as saying the later thing already existed earlier.
Magna Carta was the prelude to modern day human rights and much of what our law is still based on. Do you own the property you have? Magna Carta first gave you that right.
I don’t know exactly what you mean. Property rights have existed since time immemorial, and the law had certainly already developed property protections before Magna Carta.
The Magna Carta did not introduce new popular rights, whether concerning property or otherwise. It simply regulated the relationship between the king and the barons.
No one mentioned Irish settlers, we were discussing the religious divides and the problems that caused.
And my contention is that the divide is not a religious one. It is merely a coincidental correlation, which can be explained by the fact that Roman Catholicism is the traditional religion of Ireland (as it was in Great Britain before the Protestant Reformation), and the Catholic community are descended from Irish natives.
The British settlers in Ireland differ in religion because they are not originally from Ireland, they are settlers from Great Britain who established themselves there after the Protestant Reformation had occurred (and after their religion had mutated so as to be different from that widely practiced in Ireland).
The reason for the conflict between these two communities has nothing whatsoever to do with their religious denomination. It’s because the British state has treated Ireland and it’s native people very harshly as a colony. The island was thus later divided into the British-controlled North, and the Irish-controlled Republic.
However, the people themselves are not perfectly redistributed (and there have never been travel restrictions or attempts to forcibly resettle people), so you still have those of Irish-native background in the North and you still have those of British-settler background in the Republic, with their associated religions which mark them out as being from one of these backgrounds or the other.
The problem in NI was that the majority of people were Protestant (because of the way the North was carved out), and the local regime tended to be highly discriminatory, favouring Protestants in the distribution of jobs for example, and tending to recruit only Protestants into the police force for another example.
There isn’t a religious reason for this conflict - it’s more to do with the Protestants (i.e. the British settlers) seeing preferential treatment as their entitlement as loyal British subjects within their own province, and the Catholics (i.e. the Irish natives, but who are British citizens in NI) considering it as another insult from the British and responding by supporting Irish Nationalism. Poverty helps raise the stakes for all sides. Paramilitary groups harassing each other also raises the stakes.
The Protestants couldn’t just put their differences with the Catholics aside, because especially for the poor Protestant that would have meant the loss of Protestant privileges (such as preferential access to jobs) and reduction to the same status as the Catholic.
I wasn’t talking about a few people breaking British law. I’m talking tens of thousands in the UK alone. What don’t you understand about tens of thousands of Muslims being monitored by the security services?
I do understand that and I’ve answered the point. The vast majority of those monitored have done nothing wrong. They are monitored to gather intelligence and because the authorities think, for whatever reason, that they might do something wrong.
Even amongst those who are breaking the law, for example, if you raise money for foreign fighters, or go abroad to fight yourself, you will probably end up on a list even though you’ve done nothing whatsoever wrong to any British citizen on the mainland, and may never intend to.
And even of those who end up fighting abroad, it does not always follow that they are fighting the British Army. They may just be fighting the local groups who Britain happens to support that day. Again, there is no suggestion that they hate the man on the street in Britain.
Yes, it has been established that the Muslim ■■■■■■■■■ gangs don’t target Muslim children. The victims were not Muslim.
That doesn’t prove that no Muslims exist who are targeting their own children.
I’m not suggesting that those who commit honour killings be let off scot free. I’m saying it’s a tendency among Muslims to commit those types of offences as it’s part of their culture.
It’s not a Muslim tendency. It’s a tendency common to the areas of the world from which some Muslims hail.
A few criminal hardliners hardly represent the whole community, especially not those who have been born and raised in Britain.
The problem is we did leave these people alone. We let them congregate and create ghetto’s.
I think anyone who ever called for Muslims to be “left alone” meant treat them with dignity and friendliness rather than insults and violence, not that they should be left in exclusion.
The so-what is no one was allowed to vote for that to happen and when we voted for this to end and regain control of our borders and immigration we were ignored. The segregation will continue and the atrocities get more frequent. All this isn’t going to go away, but while people make excuses for it, the problem will never be addressed.
And do you know something? You’re going to be ignored again, because you’re going to vote for the Tory party which has ramped non-EU immigration up, massively so.
ArcticMonkey:
I would say millions of muslims in UK and Europe are part of the same wish to see the whole of Europe under islamic rule. They hate us and bring their children up to hate the white man. I’m from an old mill town in West Yorkshire. I grew up amongst them and have shared a classroom, workplace and town centres with them. I’ve heard their intentions from the horses mouth. You should come and spend a week living in these mill towns of Yorkshire and Lancashire and just see how divided we are up here. Farage was right. We live parallel lives literally we have areas where you can not walk as a white person. This is England not bloody Pakistan
I accept the existence of divisions, and ghettoisation. I just attribute it to different causes, and insist it will have different solutions.
As I’ve said though, I do agree that further immigration should broadly cease. We are allowing the capitalist economy to turn communities everywhere upside down for the sake of bosses being able to attack wages and boost profits, and it’s ethnic minorities that actually bear the brunt of further waves of immigration in the loss of wages and job opportunities, although of course the white working class lose out also.
Rjan:
ArcticMonkey:
I would say millions of muslims in UK and Europe are part of the same wish to see the whole of Europe under islamic rule. They hate us and bring their children up to hate the white man. I’m from an old mill town in West Yorkshire. I grew up amongst them and have shared a classroom, workplace and town centres with them. I’ve heard their intentions from the horses mouth. You should come and spend a week living in these mill towns of Yorkshire and Lancashire and just see how divided we are up here. Farage was right. We live parallel lives literally we have areas where you can not walk as a white person. This is England not bloody PakistanI accept the existence of divisions, and ghettoisation. I just attribute it to different causes, and insist it will have different solutions.
As I’ve said though, I do agree that further immigration should broadly cease. We are allowing the capitalist economy to turn communities everywhere upside down for the sake of bosses being able to attack wages and boost profits, and it’s ethnic minorities that actually bear the brunt of further waves of immigration in the loss of wages and job opportunities, although of course the white working class lose out also.
I think the Tories are the lesser of two evils.
Grandpa:
What can we as a country do? We can follow the examples of Hungary and Poland in Europe and just about every other country in the world. Ignore the EU ‘refugee quotas’ and ‘open borders.’
But you’re preaching to the converted on this, because I’m against open borders. Crucially though, I’m tough on the causes of refugees, which is British bombing and smashing in the Middle East and North Africa.
The central thing to understand Islam is that it’s not a belief. You ‘submit’ to Islam and it was designed to unite the Arabian war-like tribes centuries ago.
Oh shut up with this codswallop! 
I’ve spent all day listening to you tell me Islam demands this, the Quran commands that. It’s like listening to a religious cultist. It never seems to enter your head that people can just ignore the bits they don’t like, just like we do with the Bible.
When did Muslim terrorism target the UK?
In terms of attacks against the British state or British people generally, It pretty much started when Blair started bombing and smashing the Middle East, against untold public opposition.
I mean, how much longer does the terrorism have to continue not only in Britain but all over the world where Muslims immigrate into non-Muslim countries before you begin to see the link between Islam and its war with non-Muslims?
The only link I see that is that the Muslim religion is most prevalent in the Middle East, and the West has been applying as much heat as it possibly can to that region, whether it be smashing all the states to smithereens, bankrolling and supplying various Muslim extremists, or bankrolling and supplying Israel to indulge Jewish extremists and their settler regime. All roads lead back to foreign policy, not the word of God, as the Quran has it.
ArcticMonkey:
I think the Tories are the lesser of two evils.
Tories always do think that, and then find someone else to blame for the consequences.
They complain about refugees or terrorism then vote for the party of war. They complain about immigration then vote for the party that has consistently ramped it up after each election, and has a record of ramping it up on every single occasion they have taken power since 1951.
There’s no helping those who won’t help themselves.
Rjan:
ArcticMonkey:
I think the Tories are the lesser of two evils.Tories always do think that, and then find someone else to blame for the consequences.
They complain about refugees or terrorism then vote for the party of war. They complain about immigration then vote for the party that has consistently ramped it up after each election, and has a record of ramping it up on every single occasion they have taken power since 1951.
There’s no helping those who won’t help themselves.
Those 15 years under Labour 95 to 2010, net migration quadrupled and a total of 2.2 million immigrants arrived in the UK. That was from The Guardian so definitely no bias either. If anything that it will be more than that knowing The Guardian
ArcticMonkey:
Rjan:
ArcticMonkey:
I think the Tories are the lesser of two evils.Tories always do think that, and then find someone else to blame for the consequences.
They complain about refugees or terrorism then vote for the party of war. They complain about immigration then vote for the party that has consistently ramped it up after each election, and has a record of ramping it up on every single occasion they have taken power since 1951.
There’s no helping those who won’t help themselves.
Those 15 years under Labour 95 to 2010, net migration quadrupled and a total of 2.2 million immigrants arrived in the UK. That was from The Guardian so definitely no bias either. If anything that it will be more than that knowing The Guardian
I’m not going to defend New Labour, but it’s still higher under the Tories. Only a fool switches to the party that is doing even more of what they don’t like.
“They say what they must to gain your trust but after the vote, all their promises will turn to dust”
Interesting watching this from a far as this time around I am no longer able to participate.
It would seem the old strategy of devide and conquer when I read this thread is alive and well.
5 pages of bickering amongst yourselves over crumbs when sharpe suited spivs are walking off with the silverware yet again.
You are ALL being shafted no matter what you’re own political persuasion.
WAKE UP!!!
Take notice of what is happening over “le Manche” right now despite the best efforts of the controlled main stream media news to stop all you lot from getting any similar ideas.
Democracy is an illusion, rise up and take what is yours.
I cannot speak for Australia (although I am willing to bet their stance wont be a bus ride away) but “British” sovereignty is about to be kicked into the ocean if you get in any deeper with Euroreich.
Rest assured, I as born English man, will personally carve out the union flag element from the New Zeland ensign and cast you all adrift into the utopian socialist paradise with your new masters from Belgium. Good luck with that.
AndieHyde:
“They say what they must to gain your trust but after the vote, all their promises will turn to dust”Interesting watching this from a far as this time around I am no longer able to participate.
It would seem the old strategy of devide and conquer when I read this thread is alive and well.
5 pages of bickering amongst yourselves over crumbs when sharpe suited spivs are walking off with the silverware yet again.
You are ALL being shafted no matter what you’re own political persuasion.WAKE UP!!!
Take notice of what is happening over “le Manche” right now despite the best efforts of the controlled main stream media news to stop all you lot from getting any similar ideas.
Democracy is an illusion, rise up and take what is yours.I cannot speak for Australia (although I am willing to bet their stance wont be a bus ride away) but “British” sovereignty is about to be kicked into the ocean if you get in any deeper with Euroreich.
Rest assured, I as born English man, will personally carve out the union flag element from the New Zeland ensign and cast you all adrift into the utopian socialist paradise with your new masters from Belgium. Good luck with that.
Australia has its own problems with the recent flood of migrants arriving and causing violent crime in the cities. Islam is also a problem there. You won’t read this in the msm but the proof is there with a few clicks of the mouse.
Rjan…what’s your take on Labour using a faked picture of a young boy at Leeds General Infirmary for propaganda purposes. Stories are now coming out that it was staged and it will all be revealed in the press tomorrow.
Also they paid for taxis to ferry Labour activists to the hospital to intimidate Tory politicians and to assault an advisor. Labour really are scum and are the real fascists here.
ArcticMonkey:
Rjan…what’s your take on Labour using a faked picture of a young boy at Leeds General Infirmary for propaganda purposes.
I haven’t heard that it’s faked - it continues to be on the headlines this morning.
Frankly, anyone who has been into a hospital in recent years will have seen it for themselves, with corridors lined with stretchers and ambulances queued up unable to wheel patients into the A&E.
You can argue with what the news says but you can’t argue with what people see with their own eyes.
Stories are now coming out that it was staged and it will all be revealed in the press tomorrow.
The only thing I’ve heard was staged was the “Matt Hancock punch”.
Also they paid for taxis to ferry Labour activists to the hospital to intimidate Tory politicians and to assault an advisor. Labour really are scum and are the real fascists here.
Who are “they” who paid for the taxis? Or do you just mean that “Labour activists got taxis to the hospital”, without the dark mood of conspiracy?
I will note in passing that we see another aspect of your underlying grudges here, and I suppose this explains why Labour is all to blame for “Muslim grooming gangs” in your view, even though it was a Labour MP who blew the whistle.
You may as well just admit that you’re a staunch Tory activist, and a xenophobe when it suits your agenda, and you’ll find any old story or line of reasoning, true or false, to try and smear Labour or the Muslim community.
You do this whilst defending the party which consistently attacks the resources available to protect vulnerable children, attacks police funding, have attempted to start wars almost as many times as New Labour, and in 9 years have let in the same number of immigrants as New Labour did in 13, except the immigrants the Tories are letting in are not European whites from the continent, they’re from the Middle East, Africa, and so on.
AndieHyde:
“They say what they must to gain your trust but after the vote, all their promises will turn to dust”Interesting watching this from a far as this time around I am no longer able to participate.
It would seem the old strategy of devide and conquer when I read this thread is alive and well.
5 pages of bickering amongst yourselves over crumbs when sharpe suited spivs are walking off with the silverware yet again.
You are ALL being shafted no matter what you’re own political persuasion.WAKE UP!!!
Take notice of what is happening over “le Manche” right now despite the best efforts of the controlled main stream media news to stop all you lot from getting any similar ideas.
Democracy is an illusion, rise up and take what is yours.I cannot speak for Australia (although I am willing to bet their stance wont be a bus ride away) but “British” sovereignty is about to be kicked into the ocean if you get in any deeper with Euroreich.
Rest assured, I as born English man, will personally carve out the union flag element from the New Zeland ensign and cast you all adrift into the utopian socialist paradise with your new masters from Belgium. Good luck with that.
Absolutely agree, we’re simply passing the time of day. What with the election coming up it seems a perfect topic. I’m just amazed that a minority can still believe in the EU and ignore the havoc its wrought on Europe.
I’ve been awake for many years, although I draw the line about taking what is mine if it’s not mine, but I totally agree that we’re being led into something horrendous in Brussels. The problem is we can’t stop it as the Brexit referendum proved and so I focus on the consequences. I can’t see Gilet Jaunes being replicated in the UK until things get a whole lot worse, which of course they will and that’s something to look forward to. 
Rjan:
ArcticMonkey:
Rjan…what’s your take on Labour using a faked picture of a young boy at Leeds General Infirmary for propaganda purposes.I haven’t heard that it’s faked - it continues to be on the headlines this morning.
Frankly, anyone who has been into a hospital in recent years will have seen it for themselves, with corridors lined with stretchers and ambulances queued up unable to wheel patients into the A&E.
You can argue with what the news says but you can’t argue with what people see with their own eyes.
Stories are now coming out that it was staged and it will all be revealed in the press tomorrow.
The only thing I’ve heard was staged was the “Matt Hancock punch”.
Also they paid for taxis to ferry Labour activists to the hospital to intimidate Tory politicians and to assault an advisor. Labour really are scum and are the real fascists here.
Who are “they” who paid for the taxis? Or do you just mean that “Labour activists got taxis to the hospital”, without the dark mood of conspiracy?
I will note in passing that we see another aspect of your underlying grudges here, and I suppose this explains why Labour is all to blame for “Muslim grooming gangs” in your view, even though it was a Labour MP who blew the whistle.
You may as well just admit that you’re a staunch Tory activist, and a xenophobe when it suits your agenda, and you’ll find any old story or line of reasoning, true or false, to try and smear Labour or the Muslim community.
You do this whilst defending the party which consistently attacks the resources available to protect vulnerable children, attacks police funding, have attempted to start wars almost as many times as New Labour, and in 9 years have let in the same number of immigrants as New Labour did in 13, except the immigrants the Tories are letting in are not European whites from the continent, they’re from the Middle East, Africa, and so on.
The labour mp Ann Cryer who blew the whistle was shunned by people within the labour party because labour rely on the muslim vote. Sarah Champion was kicked out by Corbyn for daring to call them muslim grooming gangs.
The NHS is a mess because so many migrants are using it without paying into it. Go to Dewsbury A&E through the day and you will see what i mean
ArcticMonkey:
Rjan:
…The labour mp Ann Cryer who blew the whistle was shunned by people within the labour party because labour rely on the muslim vote. Sarah Champion was kicked out by Corbyn for daring to call them muslim grooming gangs.
No, Cryer herself said she was told that the matter would be exploited by the far-right, a contention with which she agreed. In other words, the woman who blew the whistle, agreed that people like you would misuse these cases for your own agenda.
I can’t find any evidence that she was shunned by Labour party MPs. She states she was shunned by figures in the police and social services, perhaps unsurprisingly given that they would attract fierce criticism.
Champion wasn’t kicked out at all. She resigned from the frontbench because she didn’t like Corbyn and was participating in the usual Blairite ructions. To boot, she wrote an incendiary article in the Sun about Muslim grooming gangs (which I haven’t seen), which her colleagues told her was irresponsible, and then she lied about it and tried to blame the Sun for sensationalising it. She nevertheless remains a Labour MP.
The NHS is a mess because so many migrants are using it without paying into it. Go to Dewsbury A&E through the day and you will see what i mean
Far-right rubbish, trying to suggest that patients are the problem, not Tory cuts and their market bureaucracy and disastrous private reforms.
Duplicate
The NHS was one of the best ideas we ever had and was never meant to be a freebie. It was a paid for insurance scheme. The day equality help yourself came into it meant it became just another toy for politicians to play with and another black hole to pump taxpayers money into. Which party promises to pump more millions in than the other one? Who spent more on nurses than the other one? I doubt if either party leader really cares.
Muslim grooming gangs? Dangerous to speak out on certain subjects if you’re an MP. I wonder how many death threats MPs get for stating that Muslims would never do such a thing?
‘Labour MP given added police security after death threats.’