Duplicate removed.
Rjan:
ArcticMonkey:
Rjan…read this piece and tell me you’re not worried for our future and the freedoms we hold so dear, because voting labour will only accelerate what impending doom we are heading for unless something drastic changes.ArcticMonkey, I’ll ask you first, do you really want me to spend an hour or more writing a post which pulls apart every item of this right-wing nonsense?
Obama did say “the future must not belong to those who slander the Prophet of Islam.”.
But he said it in the following context, having reeled off a series of other groups to whom “the future must not belong”:
The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. But to be credible, those who condemn that slander must also condemn the hate we see in the images of Jesus Christ that are desecrated, or churches that are destroyed, or the Holocaust that is denied. (Applause.)
obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/th … l-assembly
In other words, Obama was doing nothing more than warning Muslims that if they want credibility when they condemn slander of their own religion, they must condemn those who slander other religions.
Whereas your man writing the article uses that quote to justify saying of Obama: “Many of his [Obama’s] policies and appointments seemed geared to ensure that critics of Islam would have no future.”
Yeah fair point, whatever source anyone reads it will have it’s own bias
Honestly I ask you, when you bump into a van driver at work who looks a bit Middle Eastern but has a London or Bradford accent or whatever, do you really think he goes home and has his wife walking three paces behind him with a bag over her head, and that this is representative of the norm?
[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
you dont half spout utter pish there on a regular basis,but as far as the norm of the wifes ive seen walking around bradfordistahn and similar cesspits,then i would reckon having a bag over their head would be obligatory with the option of one over mine as well in case hers fell off… 
Rjan:
Grandpa:
Rjan:
…Who knows the real numbers, but as it’s a central aspect of their culture it would be high. It would be like saying how many in the west don’t believe in democracy and give me numbers. Sharia law isn’t anything to do with foreign warzones, its part of Islamic teaching.
No, not everyone believes Muslims are conservative in a western sense, they favour a theocratic dictatorship which is the opposite of democracy. Having your wife walk three paces behind you with a bag over her head has nothing to do with conservatism.
Here’s a short piece I wrote in my spare time for ‘Russia Insider’ a few years ago explaining what Islam is.
Muslim Terrorism: The Reality Behind Multicultural PropagandaLoad of cobblers. What is “Islamic teaching”? Something which happens to appear in a holy book that is millenia old, or something which the majority of British Muslims actually subscribe to?
And who are “they” who favour “a theocratic dictatorship”? The rural populace of foreign warzones, or the majority of British Muslims?
Honestly I ask you, when you bump into a van driver at work who looks a bit Middle Eastern but has a London or Bradford accent or whatever, do you really think he goes home and has his wife walking three paces behind him with a bag over her head, and that this is representative of the norm?
Everything except your opinion will always be a ‘load of cobblers’ to you Rjan. Islamic Teaching is our version of Bible teaching, except that we moved on from the old to the New Testament. Islam is unable to do this and is stuck in a centuries old time warp. It’s why it’s so backward and violent, just as Christianity was a few hundred years ago. Sharia law and the Muslims who support it favour a theocratic dictatorship. Show me a democratic Muslim country.
Not all Muslims are bad and not all can’t integrate, but in no country in the world do Muslims as immigrants successfully integrate into a host society after they reach even a small percentage of that population. They try to change that society instead. It’s what you’re seeing across the western world. You can say it’s not happening, or choose not to believe, but when you introduce a backward alien culture based around the religion of millions into a modern first world society, you’re going to see an almighty clash.
Get used to Islamic terrorism, grooming gangs and voluntary segregation because it’s not going to go away, either in Britain or Europe.
Look Rjan, honestly, it matters not to anyone if you spend your life inside a media mainstream bubble of beliefs churned out on a daily basis that tells you what is happening around you isn’t, but what you believe is. When the next Muslim terrorist attack takes place you can pretend it’s really the fault of Buddhist Monks and the groups of Muslim grooming gang ‘Asians’ are really Asiatic Mongolians.
Rjan, you’re the man who will scratch his head and wonder why the crime rate went up 500% after a group of travelers arrived in an area. Who will shake his head in disbelief when even former Soviets tell you what the EU is and why you’re making the same mistakes. Here’s the 10 minute documentary on what happened to Europe after inviting in millions of so called ‘refugees’ and this will also be way over your head. You will never learn Rjan and the tragedy is that when it all falls apart you won’t even know why.
Grandpa:
Show me a democratic Muslim country.
I`ll save Rjan the trouble.
Bangladesh, Malaysia, Pakistan.
Can you name any democratic Christian countries, or democratic countries with a state religion?
We know the church is established in the UK, and that the UK is currently part of the EU, which you have previously argued “has a democratic deficit”.
But otherwise we have: Argentina, Armenia, Costa-Rica, Denmark, Greece, Norway. Plus, I`ll give you the UK, because your previous assertions about the lack of democracy in the UK were rubbish.
Grandpa:
Get used to Islamic terrorism,
Yep, Islamic terrorism is a problem.
So too is terrorism from other religious groups, criminals, and disturbed individuals using religion as an excuse for violence.
Grandpa:
backward and violent, just as Christianity was a few hundred years ago
Sad and, almost, accurate. The KKK were not eliminated hundreds of years ago were they? They only emerged about 150yrs ago.
The excuse/reason of religious differences, between different sects of the same religion, was/is present in Northern Ireland.
Nowhere is immune to terrorism using religion, nationalism, and confusing of the two together to cause anger.
If you like, we could try to sort out a points system to see who has the worst terrorists? 
So many points for each life taken? More for a baby? So many points per incident?
Extra marks for european or US lives obviously. Those foreign kids who loose their life in a refugee camp dont make the front page of UK newspapers so cant score too much.
As Brucie might have said: “Good Game!”
Franglais:
Grandpa:
Show me a democratic Muslim country.I`ll save Rjan the trouble.
Bangladesh, Malaysia, Pakistan.Can you name any democratic Christian countries, or democratic countries with a state religion?
We know the church is established in the UK, and that the UK is currently part of the EU, which you have previously argued “has a democratic deficit”.
But otherwise we have: Argentina, Armenia, Costa-Rica, Denmark, Greece, Norway. Plus, I`ll give you the UK, because your previous assertions about the lack of democracy in the UK were rubbish.Grandpa:
Get used to Islamic terrorism,Yep, Islamic terrorism is a problem.
So too is terrorism from other religious groups, criminals, and disturbed individuals using religion as an excuse for violence.Grandpa:
backward and violent, just as Christianity was a few hundred years agoSad and, almost, accurate. The KKK were not eliminated hundreds of years ago were they? They only emerged about 150yrs ago.
The excuse/reason of religious differences, between different sects of the same religion, was/is present in Northern Ireland.Nowhere is immune to terrorism using religion, nationalism, and confusing of the two together to cause anger.
If you like, we could try to sort out a points system to see who has the worst terrorists?
So many points for each life taken? More for a baby? So many points per incident?
Extra marks for european or US lives obviously. Those foreign kids who loose their life in a refugee camp dont make the front page of UK newspapers so cant score too much.
As Brucie might have said: “Good Game!”
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
even though the ira might think they are still alive in anything other than extorting money ,then the following phrase is descriptively accurate with very minor exceptions.
not all muslims are terrorists…but all terrorists are muslim.
all they want to do is comit genocide on civilised whites as they turn the country they invade into a toilet worse than the one they left…
Franglais:
Grandpa:
Show me a democratic Muslim country.I`ll save Rjan the trouble.
Bangladesh, Malaysia, Pakistan.Can you name any democratic Christian countries, or democratic countries with a state religion?
We know the church is established in the UK, and that the UK is currently part of the EU, which you have previously argued “has a democratic deficit”.
But otherwise we have: Argentina, Armenia, Costa-Rica, Denmark, Greece, Norway. Plus, I`ll give you the UK, because your previous assertions about the lack of democracy in the UK were rubbish.Grandpa:
Get used to Islamic terrorism,Yep, Islamic terrorism is a problem.
So too is terrorism from other religious groups, criminals, and disturbed individuals using religion as an excuse for violence.Grandpa:
backward and violent, just as Christianity was a few hundred years agoSad and, almost, accurate. The KKK were not eliminated hundreds of years ago were they? They only emerged about 150yrs ago.
The excuse/reason of religious differences, between different sects of the same religion, was/is present in Northern Ireland.Nowhere is immune to terrorism using religion, nationalism, and confusing of the two together to cause anger.
If you like, we could try to sort out a points system to see who has the worst terrorists?
So many points for each life taken? More for a baby? So many points per incident?
Extra marks for european or US lives obviously. Those foreign kids who loose their life in a refugee camp dont make the front page of UK newspapers so cant score too much.
As Brucie might have said: “Good Game!”
Watch the video ‘Before Europe Awoke’ again, look where the terrorism stems from, learn from what’s happening in Europe and it will all become clearer, or not if you choose to dismiss it. If, or rather when we join the EU and come under the full quota of Middle East Muslims, then, like Europe has already you’ll understand.
Well let me tell you Im an old timer from the 30s, And I would rather drink battery acid than give my vote to Corbyn, He is a total nutter in my book, Regards Larry.
Grandpa:
Everything except your opinion will always be a ‘load of cobblers’ to you Rjan. Islamic Teaching is our version of Bible teaching, except that we moved on from the old to the New Testament. Islam is unable to do this and is stuck in a centuries old time warp. It’s why it’s so backward and violent, just as Christianity was a few hundred years ago. Sharia law and the Muslims who support it favour a theocratic dictatorship. Show me a democratic Muslim country.Not all Muslims are bad and not all can’t integrate, but in no country in the world do Muslims as immigrants successfully integrate into a host society after they reach even a small percentage of that population. They try to change that society instead. It’s what you’re seeing across the western world. You can say it’s not happening, or choose not to believe, but when you introduce a backward alien culture based around the religion of millions into a modern first world society, you’re going to see an almighty clash.
Get used to Islamic terrorism, grooming gangs and voluntary segregation because it’s not going to go away, either in Britain or Europe.
Rjan is just pushing all the same pro Islam integrationist/collectivist bs that Tito tried and failed to engineer in the form of the former Yugoslavia.The really ironic bit is that it was mostly Serbia who tried to hold the whole stinking mess together.
Lawrence Dunbar:
Well let me tell you Im an old timer from the 30s, And I would rather drink battery acid than give my vote to Corbyn, He is a total nutter in my book, Regards Larry.
Don’t just make a statement, justify your reasons for your opinion.
In the past 9 years of tories, they DO NOT care about the working class.
1,000 sure start centres closed.
780 libraries closed.
700 football pitches closed.
Food bank use up 2,400%.
Homelessness up 1,000%.
Rough sleeping up 1,200%
Bedroom tax caused mass evictions.
Evictions are running at record highs.
35% of U.K. kids live in poverty.
Student fees up 300%.
Student debt has risen 150%.
Eradication of EMA (education maintenance allowance).
National debt has risen from £850billion to £2.25trillion.
Emergency Brexit stimulus from BoE in June 2016 of £175b.
Brexit related fall in national revenue £500b.
GDP fallen to -0.1%.
GBP fallen by circa 15% versus EUR and USD.
Manufacturing in recession.
Construction in recession.
Services close to recession.
25-30% cuts to all govt departments.
25-30% cuts to all councils, mainly centred on Labour councils.
Half of councils facing effective bankruptcy.
185k extra deaths attached to the political ideology of austerity.
25,000 less police.
20,000 less prison officers.
10,000 less border officials.
10,000 less firefighters.
10,000 less medical professionals.
25,000 less bed spaces for people suffering mental illness.
OECD calculate 3 million hidden unemployed, rate is really 13%.
Creation of 1.3m jobs, mainly temporary, self employed, gig economy and ZHC.
Only 30k full time work positions created.
Close on 50% of workers are self employed, ZHC, or part time precariat.
80% of the 5.3 million self employed live below the poverty line.
35% of self employed only earn £100 a month.
25% cuts for our disabled community.
80% cuts to Mobility Allowance.
Closing Remploy.
40% of working households have practically no savings.
70% of households have less than 10k savings.
60% of households can only survive 2 months without a wage.
Household debt reaches a new peak, despite emergency base rates.
Increase of 50% in hate crimes.
Increase of knife crime by 150% to 22,000 per year.
Increase in teenage suicide by 70%.
Suicide up 12% in the year 2018.
Self-harm among young women up 70%.
Life expectancy down 3 years.
NHS satisfaction level at lowest recorded rate.
Council home building down 90%.
200k social homes lost since 2010.
Zero starter homes built, despite Tory flagship programme.
Council home building down 90%.
200k social homes lost since 2010.
One million families on council home waiting list.
100,000 increase on the council home waiting list since 2010.
36,000 teachers have left the profession.
Six form funding cut by 25%.
33,000 nurses leave the NHS each year.
Don’t just tell us your list of 60 or so things you believe are wrong, please do tell us how Jeremy will rectify each of them 
Regards John.
Chas Malthouse:
In the past 9 years of tories, they DO NOT care about the working class.
1,000 sure start centres closed.
780 libraries closed.
700 football pitches closed.
Food bank use up 2,400%.
Homelessness up 1,000%.
Rough sleeping up 1,200%
Bedroom tax caused massEtc.
Etc
Etc.
And yet I still cant bring myself to vote labour. I see running the country a bit like planning for christmas. Do you skint yourself out and get into debt just to give everyone what they want to keep them happy or do you live within your means, be sensible and risk leaving some people disapointed?
I’m not going to vote lib dems. They ignore my Brexit vote so I’ll return the favour and ignore them.
I live in a labour heartland, conservatives have never had a presence here for as long as I can remember. If I vote conservative, I vote alone!!!
Brexit party, hmm, a vote for flash farage? Possibly.
I’ll be looking at who’s sitting as an independent or I’ll be spoiling my ballot paper. Again.
Chas Malthouse:
In the past 9 years of tories, they DO NOT care about the working class.
1,000 sure start centres closed.
780 libraries closed.
700 football pitches closed.
Food bank use up 2,400%.
Homelessness up 1,000%.
Rough sleeping up 1,200%
Bedroom tax caused mass evictions.
Evictions are running at record highs.
35% of U.K. kids live in poverty.
Student fees up 300%.
Student debt has risen 150%.
Eradication of EMA (education maintenance allowance).
National debt has risen from £850billion to £2.25trillion.
Emergency Brexit stimulus from BoE in June 2016 of £175b.
Brexit related fall in national revenue £500b.
GDP fallen to -0.1%.
GBP fallen by circa 15% versus EUR and USD.
Manufacturing in recession.
Construction in recession.
Services close to recession.
25-30% cuts to all govt departments.
25-30% cuts to all councils, mainly centred on Labour councils.
Half of councils facing effective bankruptcy.
185k extra deaths attached to the political ideology of austerity.
25,000 less police.
20,000 less prison officers.
10,000 less border officials.
10,000 less firefighters.
10,000 less medical professionals.
25,000 less bed spaces for people suffering mental illness.
OECD calculate 3 million hidden unemployed, rate is really 13%.
Creation of 1.3m jobs, mainly temporary, self employed, gig economy and ZHC.
Only 30k full time work positions created.
Close on 50% of workers are self employed, ZHC, or part time precariat.
80% of the 5.3 million self employed live below the poverty line.
35% of self employed only earn £100 a month.
25% cuts for our disabled community.
80% cuts to Mobility Allowance.
Closing Remploy.
40% of working households have practically no savings.
70% of households have less than 10k savings.
60% of households can only survive 2 months without a wage.
Household debt reaches a new peak, despite emergency base rates.
Increase of 50% in hate crimes.
Increase of knife crime by 150% to 22,000 per year.
Increase in teenage suicide by 70%.
Suicide up 12% in the year 2018.
Self-harm among young women up 70%.
Life expectancy down 3 years.
NHS satisfaction level at lowest recorded rate.
Council home building down 90%.
200k social homes lost since 2010.
Zero starter homes built, despite Tory flagship programme.
Council home building down 90%.
200k social homes lost since 2010.
One million families on council home waiting list.
100,000 increase on the council home waiting list since 2010.
36,000 teachers have left the profession.
Six form funding cut by 25%.
33,000 nurses leave the NHS each year.
All because Labour left the country bankrupt when they handed power to the tories in 2010
ArcticMonkey:
Rjan:
…Yeah fair point, whatever source anyone reads it will have it’s own bias
Well, that’s a gracious acknowledgement that the source here cannot in hindsight be trusted.
I think it’s no longer just about Labour and Conservative and their respective promises. If we believed either of them both would tell us that they have all the answers and good times are on their way. It’s about democracy and do we still have a choice for people to decide how and by whom they’re led. If we don’t like the direction we’re heading do our majority voices still count? Or has it already been decided for us and we have to accept what’s on offer and vote until the politicians get the right answer?
What’s on offer? Boris with his broken promises of Brexit and continuing ‘deals’ and more of what we’ve had for years. Corbyn with his own ‘deals’ and second referendum taking us back to the 70s, or the non-starter Lib Dems who at least have been honest and tell us they’ll ignore the referendum altogether.
This election isn’t about which British political party governs Britain, but which one can remain in the EU and convince us we’ve left. I’ll vote for none of them, simply because whoever I’d vote for I’m just encouraging the whole charade.
dieseldog999:
Honestly I ask you, when you bump into a van driver at work who looks a bit Middle Eastern but has a London or Bradford accent or whatever, do you really think he goes home and has his wife walking three paces behind him with a bag over her head, and that this is representative of the norm?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
you dont half spout utter pish there on a regular basis,but as far as the norm of the wifes ive seen walking around bradfordistahn and similar cesspits,then i would reckon having a bag over their head would be obligatory with the option of one over mine as well in case hers fell off…
[/quote]
Thank you, because this goes to show you don’t give a fig about the women you claim are subject to oppression.
Probably little different to the victims of ■■■■■■ abuse, who will also no doubt be discarded as undesirables who should put bags over their heads, once they have outlived their usefulness as a prop in your anti-Muslim rantings.
Grandpa:
Rjan:
…Everything except your opinion will always be a ‘load of cobblers’ to you Rjan. Islamic Teaching is our version of Bible teaching, except that we moved on from the old to the New Testament. Islam is unable to do this and is stuck in a centuries old time warp. It’s why it’s so backward and violent, just as Christianity was a few hundred years ago. Sharia law and the Muslims who support it favour a theocratic dictatorship. Show me a democratic Muslim country.
Except Islam isn’t stuck in a centuries-old timewarp. If you go to Kabul, the reason women have few rights for example is not because stuck-in-the-mud Islamic religion naturally entails it, it’s because the Americans bankrolled Taliban extremists in the late 1980s (i.e. 30 years ago), and then smashed the place up some more in 2001 (i.e. just over 15 years ago).
It’s the same in Northern Ireland. On the British mainland women have rights. In the Irish Republic women have rights. But NI remains a religious backwater because until recently it was the setting of (non-religious) military conflict and extreme poverty.
Not all Muslims are bad and not all can’t integrate, but in no country in the world do Muslims as immigrants successfully integrate into a host society after they reach even a small percentage of that population.
It’s difficult to know where to start with such sweeping statements. What does it mean to integrate? To adopt white skin? To adopt atheism?
They try to change that society instead. It’s what you’re seeing across the western world. You can say it’s not happening, or choose not to believe, but when you introduce a backward alien culture based around the religion of millions into a modern first world society, you’re going to see an almighty clash.
So what has actually changed? It seems to me the only demand that finds even the faintest political expression, is to stop bombing and smashing the Middle East, and a hell of a lot of white people also support that. Even many right-wingers have belatedly got with the anti-war programme, now they realise that every smashing is followed by a tidal wave of refugees.
Beyond this, where are the changes? The supposed demands for “Sharia law” and similar appear to exist only amongst a few local extremists and more broadly in the imaginations of far-right campaigners trying to whip up hate, it’s not a real pressure to which white people are subject.
And if you want to break the back of insularity in Muslim communities, a good start would be to stop subjecting them to racist and religious attack, and alleviate poverty. In other words, to stop subjecting them to the consequences of right-wing politics.
As a final aside, I’ve said before that I think immigration should be seriously curtailed, in general and for a variety of reasons. I do agree that Muslim communities are becoming somewhat isolated. But I argue that is primarily because they are under a consistent siege, not because their religion or culture is warlike or hateful.
I’ve already explained at length why I think “grooming gangs” are more a problem with how white right-wingers treat white children and adults, which creates the opportunity for exploitation by abusers.
Abusers are not unique to the Muslim community - they abound in white society too, and are rarely away from the news (look at the Prince Andrew scandal, it has all the same elements of whites acting as a loose “gang”, of the “flamboyantly” wealthy, of older women acting to procure young girls, of authorities turning a blind eye and doing deals, and so on).