Who will you vote for and why?

OUT OF HOURS BULLY'S TRUCKSTOP BAR (INTERACTIVE)
181

Grandpa:

Franglais:

Grandpa:

Will the yellow best rioters be arriving on unicorns? I might be up for a ride on one of them.

Big problems in France now and escalating. Looks as if another Macron EU globalist might be biting the dust shortly. That’s before Merkel who says, “I will not be seeking any political post after my term ends [2021].”
Poor Merkel, she spent half her life helping to destroy East Germany and the second half hoping the same failed ideas would work in the west.

Hungary, Italy, Poland … One country after another Europe is rejecting the EUSSR. Yet you didn’t answer the question. When these mass protests by the people eventually happen in Britain, whose side will you be on?

The same mass protests about high taxation, multiculturalism, austerity, low wages … They’re all occurring in EU countries led by pro-European politicians. History repeating itself? We used to laugh at the drab East Germans behind their wall and cheer on those like Hungary and Czechoslovakia as they fought back against being ruled by a centralized USSR bureaucracy. It’s happening again, but this time it’s the Russians, Poles and Hungarians warning us against a very similar EU.

Where do you get your news from?
Look at the French news sites, not the usual biased UK ones.
Are there protests about pension changes? Yes.
Riots etc? No.
I was expecting some grief this week, but have seen nothing myself. There are problems, but it seems to me, much smaller than last year.
Of course actually being here during the working week, I may not see what others see on their computers.

I try to get my news from live events. What are you saying, that nothing is happening? Is a proposed state of emergency (economic and social emergency) in place because nothing is happening? They’re even being described as riots.

Macron decrees 'social and economic emergency' as he offers sweeteners to quell France's 'yellow vest' revolt

This is 3 days ago. Are you saying it isn’t happening?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CplTXrXFdvo

Perhaps you’d consider staying in France if you love the EU so much? But perhaps not as the French are quickly falling out of love with the Macron’s of Europe. :slight_smile:

An English translation to “a social and economic emergency” which you reinterpret as “a state of emergency”… is about typical.
The French do things differently… tear gas at UK demonstrations is somewhat rarer than tear gas at demonstrations in France.
I do prefer our lower key policing style, and was glad when Johnson’s water cannon were binned.

182

An English translation to “a social and economic emergency” which you reinterpret as “a state of emergency”… is about typical.
The French do things differently… tear gas at UK demonstrations is somewhat rarer than tear gas at demonstrations in France.
I do prefer our lower key policing style, and was glad when Johnson’s water cannon were binned.

A social and economic state of emergency is simply another term to describe what type of emergency. Elsewhere described as a national, or state of emergency. Police do not use tear gas or rubber bullets for peaceful demonstrations. It started with fuel price increases, went onto pension reforms and now is against Macron himself. What happened to the elitist globalist utopia? I look forward to these sort of people’s protests increasing across Europe until this elitist rule collapses - and it will. It took the USSR 70 years to collapse and for countries to gain their independence. I think the EU will be a lot less than that. :slight_smile:

183

I’ve just read that there is supposed to be a general strike in France tomorrow.

184

Grandpa:

Police do not use tear gas or rubber bullets for peaceful demonstrations.

Unless you are a white middle aged male with a short hair cut having your say about how the country is run.

Remember, Government do not grant freedoms.
They only take them away.

185

Grandpa:

Franglais:

Grandpa:

Will the yellow best rioters be arriving on unicorns? I might be up for a ride on one of them.

Big problems in France now and escalating. Looks as if another Macron EU globalist might be biting the dust shortly. That’s before Merkel who says, “I will not be seeking any political post after my term ends [2021].”
Poor Merkel, she spent half her life helping to destroy East Germany and the second half hoping the same failed ideas would work in the west.

Hungary, Italy, Poland … One country after another Europe is rejecting the EUSSR. Yet you didn’t answer the question. When these mass protests by the people eventually happen in Britain, whose side will you be on?

The same mass protests about high taxation, multiculturalism, austerity, low wages … They’re all occurring in EU countries led by pro-European politicians. History repeating itself? We used to laugh at the drab East Germans behind their wall and cheer on those like Hungary and Czechoslovakia as they fought back against being ruled by a centralized USSR bureaucracy. It’s happening again, but this time it’s the Russians, Poles and Hungarians warning us against a very similar EU.

Where do you get your news from?
Look at the French news sites, not the usual biased UK ones.
Are there protests about pension changes? Yes.
Riots etc? No.
I was expecting some grief this week, but have seen nothing myself. There are problems, but it seems to me, much smaller than last year.
Of course actually being here during the working week, I may not see what others see on their computers.

I try to get my news from live events. What are you saying, that nothing is happening? Is a proposed state of emergency (economic and social emergency) in place because nothing is happening? They’re even being described as riots.

Macron decrees 'social and economic emergency' as he offers sweeteners to quell France's 'yellow vest' revolt

This is 3 days ago. Are you saying it isn’t happening?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CplTXrXFdvo

Perhaps you’d consider staying in France if you love the EU so much? But perhaps not as the French are quickly falling out of love with the Macron’s of Europe. :slight_smile:

Telegraph article dated 18 Dec…2018…
So not three days ago.

And a video from Sky News… Australia.
The Dirty Digger’s home team!
Sky News UK, has a good reputation. The Australian station does not.

You go by what you see yourself?
So do I. Last year the G.J. s were causing ructions.
This year those affected by cuts to their pensions are matching. There are other effects. But on the scale of last year? I haven’t seen it.
What have you seen lately on the streets? Either in the Cities or the Banlieues?

186

Telegraph article dated 18 Dec…2018…
So not three days ago.

And a video from Sky News… Australia.
The Dirty Digger’s home team!
Sky News UK, has a good reputation. The Australian station does not.

You go by what you see yourself?
So do I. Last year the G.J. s were causing ructions.
This year those affected by cuts to their pensions are matching. There are other effects. But on the scale of last year? I haven’t seen it.
What have you seen lately on the streets? Either in the Cities or the Banlieues?

The video stated 3 days ago, not the article. It doesn’t matter the source, the content is either right or wrong. I don’t go by what I see myself, I go by what I’m shown. There is either a national emergency, or not. There are either riots involving tear gas and rubber bullets, or not. In other words, France has a huge problem, or the state of emergency is a lie and the videos are made up. You’ll always find excuses because you’re EU indoctrinated, I’m looking for the truth. Here’s some.

I remember the heady days of treaties. No need to vote on them, the politicians all told us they meant nothing and focused instead on the bright days ahead until we ended up in the EU and discovered what we’d been led into. From the 1990s onwards, the European Union began subversion and expansionism. The British were not allowed to vote for the Maastricht Treaty 1992, the Amsterdam Treaty 1997, the Nice Treaty 2001, or the Lisbon Treaty 2007. Yet combined, these treaties gave the European Union unlimited power in all spheres of political, economic, immigration and regulatory laws.

“So 70% of the laws in this country are made, co-decided, by the European Parliament.” (Viviane Reding. Vice-president of European Commission, 2014).

No surprise there. In 2005, the Dutch and French voted ‘No’ to the ‘European Constitutional Treaty’. The name changed to the ‘Lisbon Treaty’ and the constitutional vote declared void as the European Constitution now didn’t exist. Ireland again voted ‘No’ to the new ‘Lisbon Treaty’ in 2008 and told to vote again until the answer was ‘Yes’.

“They must go on voting until they get it right.” - Jose Barroso, President of the European Commission.

Or even earlier:

“Public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals we dare not present to them directly. All the earlier proposals will be in the new text, but will be hidden and disguised.” - Valery Giscard D’Estang, member of Constitutional Council of France, on the Lisbon treaty.

2016 threw away all pretense and we found out how far we’d got into something we’d been suspicious of for years. I personally hope we can get out of this before we collapse with it, because the end won’t be pleasant, just as the countries left in bits when the USSR collapsed.

187

You “go by what you’re shown”?
I could post links to articles and videos “showing” that the earth is flat and Elvis is working at a chip shop in Woking.
You have also repeated (ad nauseam) posted the same highly biased propagandist video. Some of us try to look at both sides to an argument. The world is not (in spite of your assertions) a black/white place.
I put up links to news and other sites too. I also put up many links to FullFact and media bias sites. I think people should make up their minds on all the facts, not on half truths, and out of context, out of date info.
In the same way that talk of “urgent measures” becomes “emergency action” and then “a state of emergency” through Chinese whispers we should always check what are presented with.

Earlier in this thread we hadposts about immigration. I’ll see if I can find them again.
.
Edit to add.
There is no “state of emergency” in France. So as you correctly say, “that’s a lie”.

188

Franglais:
You “go by what you’re shown”?
I could post links to articles and videos “showing” that the earth is flat and Elvis is working at a chip shop in Woking.
You have also repeated (ad nauseam) posted the same highly biased propagandist video. Some of us try to look at both sides to an argument. The world is not (in spite of your assertions) a black/white place.
I put up links to news and other sites too. I also put up many links to FullFact and media bias sites. I think people should make up their minds on all the facts, not on half truths, and out of context, out of date info.
In the same way that talk of “urgent measures” becomes “emergency action” and then “a state of emergency” through Chinese whispers we should always check what are presented with.

Earlier in this thread we hadposts about immigration. I’ll see if I can find them again.
.
Edit to add.
There is no “state of emergency” in France. So as you correctly say, “that’s a lie”.

Yes, I go by what I’m shown, it’s called reality, not beliefs. There is no propaganda content when using facts. The EU is anti-democratic and a centralized bureaucracy. Trying to pretend it’s not are beliefs. No one is even trying to pretend that the EU has been beneficial for Britain, it all centers on how bad it would be if we left. There is a state of emergency in France, there are large scale protests; there is huge dissatisfaction with Macron. That’s not any kind of Chinese whispers, its fact.

There will always be those who fall for political lies. Those who find excuses because there mind-set has been altered to believe. Even when people see with their own eyes, many still refuse to believe.

In a few days-time we go through the voting charade again, pretending we don’t already know who’s going to win. Boris is going to deliver Brexit? Well definitely maybe a deal, which whether we like it or not is as near as we’ll get to something we didn’t vote for. Or perhaps he won’t and there’s nothing we can do about that either. How far down the road do we have to go before the British cone out onto the streets and you’ll say that isn’t happening either.

‘Leave means leave … It will be your decision – not parliament’s.’ David Cameron.

‘Brexit means Brexit.’ Teresa May.

‘I’d rather be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit.’ Thanks Boris. Now go and do that and take those who say they represent the voice of the people with you.

Ironically, in 2016 we were allowed a referendum to decide whether we wanted to join an EU that we were already in, but having voted to leave we were refused. That actually happened, it’s not a belief. Huge dissatisfaction with the political elite all over Europe. Declining economies in Europe in a ‘we’re all sinking in a collectivized mess.’ France is the first to see huge tax rises and ‘reforms’; do you think that as the EU begins to collapse that won’t happen to us also? You’re living in a dream world Franglais and even when it happens you won’t believe it.

189

Screenshot_20191212-114541.jpg
Screenshot_20191212-114541.jpg720×1280 105 KB

190

ArcticMonkey:
0

This translates itself across the political spectrum where lies and half-truths have become the norm in politics, leaving us to work out the reality for ourselves. They’re all as bad as each other. MSN

191

ArcticMonkey:
0

Except it seems Labour weren’t silent were they? We’ve already heard it was a Labour MP who showed down against police and social work bosses.

But then again, why let the truth get in the way of a good right-wing smear?

192

Screenshot_20191212-124409.jpg
Screenshot_20191212-124409.jpg720×1280 156 KB

Rjan…so you want this clown in charge of our Defence??

193

ArcticMonkey:
0

Rjan…so you want this clown in charge of our Defence??

UK political debate?
Michael Foot wears a donkey jacket?
Jeremy Corbyn wears no tie?
Diane Abbott wears funny shoes?
.
The intellectual depth of this argument is astounding.
No wonder we’re saddled with spinning, shallow, politicians if that’s how voters rate them.

194

It’s the intellectual gullibility that is astounding. Whilst we’re in the EU it doesn’t matter who we elect.

Millions previously cheered for characters like Stalin and Hitler. They’re the same kind of starry-eyed people now cheering for EU liberal fascism. The middle class are declining. Poverty is rising as the minimum wage becomes the norm for millions. The ‘EU gravy train’ for the elite carries on. The EU referendum doesn’t count anymore as politicians decide what’s best for us … And there are many people who will cheer this on, make excuses for it, or pretend it’s not happening.

Don’t those now cheering for the EU not realize what it really is? Haven’t they understood the lessons behind recent history that you can’t equalize populations out at the top, but only at the bottom? That the elite couldn’t really care less about poverty? That mass migrant labour pushes labour costs down and leads to millions on a minimum wage? That no country once in the EU has ever been allowed a referendum to leave?

The EU was never anything other than just another European political coup benefitting the politicians, IMF and ECB bankers and corporations. Neither the average worker in Bulgaria or Britain gained anything from it, in fact in the more wealthy northern countries the standard of living is declining. Even the East Europeans who once flocked to the land of milk and honey have seen through it and many are returning home.

Yet in the bigger picture, if every major party can ignore the 2016 referendum at will, what does the future hold? If the EU decide that they will slap on a massive carbon tax on you, will you be surprised you’re not allowed to vote against that? If you’re asked to vote in a referendum to privatize the NHS and the vote is ‘No’, will you be happy to keep on voting until the answer is ‘Yes’? Anti-democracy has a habit of coming back and biting the hand that feeds it.

The good news is that the populations of many European countries are now beginning to wake up and dissent is growing and that’s now being shown on foreign news channels that aren’t biased towards the EU elite. In other words, the truth is now beginning to show itself and the equality Federalist believers are desperately trying to ignore it, or say its fake news and we must carry on believing.

195

Franglais:

ArcticMonkey:
0

Rjan…so you want this clown in charge of our Defence??

UK political debate?
Michael Foot wears a donkey jacket?
Jeremy Corbyn wears no tie?
Diane Abbott wears funny shoes?
.
The intellectual depth of this argument is astounding.
No wonder we’re saddled with spinning, shallow, politicians if that’s how voters rate them.

Look closer Franglais. She has two different styles of shoes on and both are left footed ffs

I can give you a very long list of why Abbott is unfit to be an MP never mind Defence Secretary.

196

ArcticMonkey:
Look closer Franglais. She has two different styles of shoes on and both are left footed ffs

I can give you a very long list of why Abbott is unfit to be an MP never mind Defence Secretary.

I must admit I let out a laugh, but of what consequence is it really?

Moreover, if the alternative is militant liars in the Tory party, then Labour is the only choice.

197

Rjan:

ArcticMonkey:
Look closer Franglais. She has two different styles of shoes on and both are left footed ffs

I can give you a very long list of why Abbott is unfit to be an MP never mind Defence Secretary.

I must admit I let out a laugh, but of what consequence is it really?

Moreover, if the alternative is militant liars in the Tory party, then Labour is the only choice.

As i said above. There’s a long list of Abbott gaffes over the years which makes her unfit for arguably the most important job in the UK. No other country would share intelligence with us with her and Corbyn at the helm

198

ArcticMonkey:

Franglais:

ArcticMonkey:
0

Rjan…so you want this clown in charge of our Defence??

UK political debate?
Michael Foot wears a donkey jacket?
Jeremy Corbyn wears no tie?
Diane Abbott wears funny shoes?
.
The intellectual depth of this argument is astounding.
No wonder we’re saddled with spinning, shallow, politicians if that’s how voters rate them.

Look closer Franglais. She has two different styles of shoes on and both are left footed ffs

I can give you a very long list of why Abbott is unfit to be an MP never mind Defence Secretary.

I hadn’t noticed they were two left feet. Proof postive she is an extremist leftie then!

But doesn’t your comment prove my point?
Rather than post a “long list of her gaffs” you chose to post a picture.

199

Franglais:

ArcticMonkey:

Franglais:

ArcticMonkey:
0

Rjan…so you want this clown in charge of our Defence??

UK political debate?
Michael Foot wears a donkey jacket?
Jeremy Corbyn wears no tie?
Diane Abbott wears funny shoes?
.
The intellectual depth of this argument is astounding.
No wonder we’re saddled with spinning, shallow, politicians if that’s how voters rate them.

Look closer Franglais. She has two different styles of shoes on and both are left footed ffs

I can give you a very long list of why Abbott is unfit to be an MP never mind Defence Secretary.

I hadn’t noticed they were two left feet. Proof postive she is an extremist leftie then!

But doesn’t your comment prove my point?
Rather than post a “long list of her gaffs” you chose to post a picture.

I don’t need to post her list of gaffes as they’ve been well publicised over the years unless you only read the Guardian.
That picture is from this morning so is her latest gaffe

200

ArcticMonkey:

Franglais:

ArcticMonkey:

Franglais:

ArcticMonkey:
0

Rjan…so you want this clown in charge of our Defence??

UK political debate?
Michael Foot wears a donkey jacket?
Jeremy Corbyn wears no tie?
Diane Abbott wears funny shoes?
.
The intellectual depth of this argument is astounding.
No wonder we’re saddled with spinning, shallow, politicians if that’s how voters rate them.

Look closer Franglais. She has two different styles of shoes on and both are left footed ffs

I can give you a very long list of why Abbott is unfit to be an MP never mind Defence Secretary.

I hadn’t noticed they were two left feet. Proof postive she is an extremist leftie then!

But doesn’t your comment prove my point?
Rather than post a “long list of her gaffs” you chose to post a picture.

I don’t need to post her list of gaffes as they’ve been well publicised over the years unless you only read the Guardian.
That picture is from this morning so is her latest gaffe

Fair comment.