Pimpdaddy:
Freight Dog:
Atlanta, Georgia tonight to mainland Europe then home Tuesday to UK for 4 days
Lucky guy, one of the best jobs in the world:)
It so isn’t. I know you’re in the position I was in 20 years ago. You’ve ideas of what you think it must be like.
Ohhh if I could put you in my shoes once any novelty has worn off. Forget what the press or public opinion say about the job being easy or all autopilot 
. Tosh. The reality…
Take tramping and times it by ten, then add the kind of stress you think you knew lorry driving and multiply it by 50 to 100. You’re checked to infinity every few months and you’re expected to know a ■■■■ load of stuff. I’m talking a lot. And unlike a manager or office worker, know it and have the capcity to recall and decide on that info whilst hand flying an ILS approach on 3 engines after a failure in gusting winds to a snow covered airport when your capacity is at 299 percent. As for jet lag? Most people get wrecked coming back from holiday and tell their mates about it after a few days feeling sorry for themselves. Its everyday in this job, and to the extreme. You come west. 20 hours later, head east again. You are completely utterly destroyed. The tiredness leaves any tiredness I felt driving into paleness. It’s destroying my health and destroying my home life. The money isn’t great either. About the same you can earn driving a train or car transporter.
If I can find another career with less money but moderate (30-40k) that gives me time at home and time to see my loved ones without having burning red eyes, walking about in a dizzy daydream unable to do much until you head away again and revist the suitcase you never unpacked, waking up in cold sweats and an astronaut medical and nurmurous stressful checks every 6 months then I’m going for it. I think my partner would agree, if she still is home when I next get back 
I kindae wondered when you would tell folk the way it is…one of my best friends from childhood (RIP bob),was crew on a air freighter working out o Brisbane on the island fish runs then would end up back at PRESTWICK for general then here there and everywhere back to Brisbane we all thought he was living the life o riley but he envied us having a homelife .
unfortunately the lifestyle ,stress and some nasty stuff he loaded and unloaded regularly 25yrs earlier took one o lifes gentleman to an early grave 
sorry Freight dog your post just brought back some old memories. jimmy
martinviking:
Local Poxy Palletline work, probably means that I’ll spending at least half the day in Waitrose ‘Smelshall’ (I hate that place !)
Hope they make 'em all redundant when they open the new RDC. (Especially Cyclopse the One Eyed ■■■■)
(Bet it won’t be any better though [emoji26])
Well that was a fun day, sat in the yard for 2 hours then got asked if I’d like to go to Sunderland & Teesport ? Yep, no problem, went to Bedford to load, turned out not to be ready ! Then got sent (empty) to Teesport, to collect totes from Tosco, stopped for a 45 about 80 miles up the A1 & got a call cancelling the collection. Ended up doing 300 empty Kms to get to Shefford, (approx 30 miles from MK)
Glad I’m not too worried about the profit we make. There’s always agency’s when it goes ■■■■ up. Lol.
Freight Dog:
It so isn’t. I know you’re in the position I was in 20 years ago. You’ve ideas of what you think it must be like.
Ohhh if I could put you in my shoes once any novelty has worn off.
Good to hear that you remember what it’s like:)
I’m free to dream aren’t I?
I understand but I still think it’s better than driving trucks, I’ll be happy to fill your shoes if you ever become a CP:wink:
Tuesday.
Spare again.
Didn’t even have to turn up at all this time 
Bham to Felixstowe to Wembley, backload out of Braintree then back to Fx then heading off for the midlands somewhere, might be up north later in the week or back south who knows, should be home for Sat night so alls good.
ho hum, they’ve changed the change-over place to Stracathro
First run - just off queens drive.
Second Run - Wickes Chorley , Best Western Skelmersdale.
Third Run - Bootle, Allerton , then 2 x Liverppol City Centre
Refuel. Parked up. Clocked out at 1600
Pimpdaddy:
Freight Dog:
It so isn’t. I know you’re in the position I was in 20 years ago. You’ve ideas of what you think it must be like.
Ohhh if I could put you in my shoes once any novelty has worn off.
Good to hear that you remember what it’s like:)
I’m free to dream aren’t I? I understand but I still think it’s better than driving trucks, I’ll be happy to fill your shoes if you ever become a CP:wink:
I know mate, but knowing how much you want to do it I’d hate for you to succum and sign up and 100k plus worth of debt based on an ideal that doesn’t exist. If you accept the reality and still want to go for it you’d need your head checked, but I’d understand as I did it. I fell under the drug too. Flying is like cocaine. It hooks you and then you think doing it for a living will be like an extended hobby. Oh no! Some years in after the pleasure dies the side affects start and hit hard. And it’s not pleasant. It’s a ■■■■■■ ■■■■■■ industry plagued with ill health, crashing terms, dodgy temp contracts and extreme stress.
Freight Dog:
I know mate, but knowing how much you want to do it I’d hate for you to succum and sign up and 100k plus worth of debt based on an ideal that doesn’t exist. If you accept the reality and still want to go for it you’d need your head checked, but I’d understand as I did it. I fell under the drug too. Flying is like cocaine. It hooks you and then you think doing it for a living will be like an extended hobby. Oh no! Some years in after the pleasure dies the side affects start and hit hard. And it’s not pleasant. It’s a [zb] [zb] industry plagued with ill health, crashing terms, dodgy temp contracts and extreme stress.
Don’t worry, I like to think my ears & eyes are wide open to the harsh realities mentioned in the latter parts & that I have a good understanding of what a lot of it is about. I wish I could forget about but I can’t for some strange reason:( What I can’t/won’t do is p2f, that in itself is a sign that the job is zb’ed:!: Trust me when I say YOU ARE A LUCKY GUY, I’d give my left nut to sit on the back wall & just watch:lol::lol:
Pimpdaddy:
Freight Dog:
I know mate, but knowing how much you want to do it I’d hate for you to succum and sign up and 100k plus worth of debt based on an ideal that doesn’t exist. If you accept the reality and still want to go for it you’d need your head checked, but I’d understand as I did it. I fell under the drug too. Flying is like cocaine. It hooks you and then you think doing it for a living will be like an extended hobby. Oh no! Some years in after the pleasure dies the side affects start and hit hard. And it’s not pleasant. It’s a [zb] [zb] industry plagued with ill health, crashing terms, dodgy temp contracts and extreme stress.
Don’t worry, I like to think my ears & eyes are wide open to the harsh realities mentioned in the latter parts & that I have a good understanding of what a lot of it is about. I wish I could forget about but I can’t for some strange reason:( What I can’t/won’t do is p2f, that in itself is a sign that the job is zb’ed:!: Trust me when I say YOU ARE A LUCKY GUY, I’d give my left nut to sit on the back wall & just watch:lol::lol:
Its a shame we can’t offer jump seats like we used to otherwise id say come along. Just out of interest why do you want to do it if you know the realities? And why do you think I’m lucky? Just curious, I don’t mean to interrogate, just curious as to what is it that would lure someone to sign up to such a job. For me, I took a flying lesson then the hook was in, but of course flying a light aeroplane has as much relevance as being an engineer does to being a vet. And I got into it in the mid nineties when the job still was recommended. On the face of it, if you took away the job title, sat someone down and offered this, would you sign up still? Maybe. Some do:-
1/ you pay 100k plus for training
2/ you may need to pay 25k for 'on the job" training at least once in your job, maybe twice
3/ expect a one year temp contract, maybe at 70 percent
4/ the pension was at 15 percent for the oldies but this year, it’s 7. Next year? Ha ha
5/ you’ll work long haul, don’t worry, you get 8 days at home to say hello!!!
6/ah, did we mention you’ll be jet lagged to ■■■■. Permanently? No? You’ll get used to it. It’ll probably kill you along with the radiation and cancer but who cares right?
7/ you better not screw up. I hope you have a brain for stress and recalling huge amounts of data and making descisions at 0400 jet lagged using the 5000 pages of data your supposed to know. We’ll also watch your every move on 350 parameters on FDM.
8/ we check you know this stuff and burn you at 299 percent within an inch of your brain every 4-5 months. Screw it up, problem
9/ you’ll pass the medical when young but as you get older you better pray mother nature doesn’t come knocking. Did we mention our lifestyle works against the probability of you keeping your medical? Ah, go past 40, it’s every 6 months and it gets harder…
10/ stress?? Welcome to the machine.
11/ pension scrapped. You work, we pay. We may let you home. Unpaid.
If I were you I’d get a good Job like train driver where you’ll earn enough to run a nice share in a biplane off a grass strip and you can take the girlfriend flying. What’s more you’ll be around to take her and enjoy your life and still have adventure. if its adventure you crave you can always fly it across to Europe. I did that. Best fun in my flying life.
Freight Dog:
Its a shame we can’t offer jump seats like we used to otherwise id say come along. Just out of interest why do you want to do it if you know the realities? And why do you think I’m lucky? Just curious, I don’t mean to interrogate, just curious as to what is it that would lure someone to sign up to such a job. For me, I took a flying lesson then the hook was in, but of course flying a light aeroplane has as much relevance as being an engineer does to being a vet. And I got into it in the mid nineties when the job still was recommended
.
It is a real shame but hey…
I want to do it because I have a screw loose & it’s at the top of my ‘hierarchy of needs’ (for now). I look at you guys like super humans because even after doing/putting up with the bs listed 1-11 you seem to come out the other side & some of you live a good lifestyle because of it. I like to challenge myself & my abilities, In my mind I believe I can do anything I put my mind to, I’m not all talk & no trousers so if someone offered me an opportunity to drive a train, car transporter, engineer etc I know I can do it, but only if the OPPORTUNITY is given. This is where your luck comes in, you’ve had a shot, jumped through the necessary hoops & now you’re strapped into your seat. Thousands of people are after your seat as well, doesn’t that make you feel lucky?
Interrogate as much as you like, I might learn something out of it:) btw I wouldn’t do it so I can show off a fancy Instagram Facebook picture wearing ray bans like some people do, does that mean I have no passion?
Pimpdaddy:
Freight Dog:
Its a shame we can’t offer jump seats like we used to otherwise id say come along. Just out of interest why do you want to do it if you know the realities? And why do you think I’m lucky? Just curious, I don’t mean to interrogate, just curious as to what is it that would lure someone to sign up to such a job. For me, I took a flying lesson then the hook was in, but of course flying a light aeroplane has as much relevance as being an engineer does to being a vet. And I got into it in the mid nineties when the job still was recommended
.
It is a real shame but hey…
I want to do it because I have a screw loose & it’s at the top of my ‘hierarchy of needs’ (for now). I look at you guys like super humans because even after doing/putting up with the bs listed 1-11 you seem to come out the other side & some of you live a good lifestyle because of it. I like to challenge myself & my abilities, In my mind I believe I can do anything I put my mind to, I’m not all talk & no trousers so if someone offered me an opportunity to drive a train, car transporter, engineer etc I know I can do it, but only if the OPPORTUNITY is given. This is where your luck comes in, you’ve had a shot, jumped through the necessary hoops & now you’re strapped into your seat. Thousands of people are after your seat as well, doesn’t that make you feel lucky?
Interrogate as much as you like, I might learn something out of it:) btw I wouldn’t do it so I can show off a fancy Instagram Facebook picture wearing ray bans like some people do, does that mean I have no passion?
I don’t doubt your passion. Who am I anyway to question your passion? It’s not like us in the job have any right to judge whether anyone is “worthy” to come in. The arsehool recuiters do that. I’m just a joe working like thousands of others. I’m just trying to offer you some reality. Living dreams is one thing but when it comes to laying down thousands it’s no good getting all dewy eyed over someone’s dreams. They need some insight for their benefit.
Please don’t say we’re super humans. We’re not, we’re just regular Joes as vulnerable as anyone else (despite what BA ■■■■■■■■ have you believe ). If we were then aviation wouldn’t be full of hidden depression and failed marriages.
A good lifestyle? That’s just what I’ve said, most pilots don’t have a good lifestyle not by normal human ideals. You know, the ones when you’re just about to peg it- have I spent enough time with the kids? Did I do enough in my life outside of work? Was I there for my wife? Or was I there for the second or third wife ?. If you mean material gain, then yes you can achieve some sort of material gain, but now where like you imagine. You’d be on less than a train driver as a short haul F/O with about a grand a month going towards your debts.
To be fair with the luck thing. Knowing that thousands of bright eyed young starlets with daddy’s cheque book open wanting my worn out seat doesn’t make me feel lucky at all. They want it because they aren’t in the job and refuse to listen to good advice and will stop at nothing to pay to get in and degrade the terms using any means possible.
I worked my tail off solidly for 8 years to get in doing things many turned their noses up to like towing gliders for £50 a week and cleaning toilets at an airline office. Luck played a little bit but most was off my own back so I don’t feel I owe anyone my seat as I earned it and then some, through the things I lost and gave up on the way. That’s why terms were good back then. People were prepared to work to get in. These days I concede lady luck plays a big hand, but I’m not a product of that system. I did it the old school way where you worked your way in through sweat and effort. Not that it repaid me as we’ve all been sold down the river by the modern ways . It’s a shame that system has gone and it’s ruined it for good people like yourself. You can blame the impatient arrogant rich kids for that one. They’ve ruined the job for us all and themselves, the idiots.
Freight Dog:
I think you misunderstand me. I don’t doubt your passion. The arsehool recuiters do that.
Did I do enough in my life outside of work? Was I there for my wife? Or was I there for the second or third wife ?. If you mean material gain, then yes you can achieve some sort of material gain, but now where like you imagine. You’d be on less than a train driver as a short haul F/O with about a grand a month going towards your debts.
Luck played a little bit but most was off my own back so I don’t feel I owe anyone my seat as I earned it and then some, through the things I lost and gave up on the way. That’s why terms were good back then. People were prepared to work to get in. These days I concede lady luck plays a big hand, but I’m not a product of that system. I did it the old school way where you worked your way in through sweat and effort. Not that it repaid me as we’ve all been sold down the river by the modern ways . It’s a shame that system has gone and it’s ruined it for good people like yourself. You can blame the impatient arrogant rich kids for that one. They’ve ruined the job for us all and themselves, the idiots.
It was just a general question, I understood you:) It’d be good to know what those recruiters are looking for exactly, out in the open…
I did mean a good material lifestyle, be able to provide in your absence, it’s a double blow if you can’t provide+you’re never around because you’re poorly paid like a truck driver:lol:‘AIDS’ is a pretty common thing nowadays anyway regardless of occupation so to me it doesn’t really matter but clearly it does for others.
I thought only juniors were paid less than train operators? After a few years & debts are paid off you should clear more than them, or am I mistaken again?
That’s another thing that makes you ‘lucky’ in my eyes, you’re not a product of the system but unfortunately any newbies will have to be for reasons you have mentioned, terms are falling everywhere you look:(
Ah I see what you meant now, sorry . I can imagine that tramping can be the double negative like you say. For a starter today. You’ll somewhere end up paying 25-30k for a type rating as no one gives starts in the UK to basic CPL/IR holders with bonds.
As a Regional turboprop F/O you’ll clear around £1800 a month after tax then you’ve probably got around 8-10 years of paying £800-£1000 a month back depending on how much you borrowed for the training. It goes up in little increments year on year. A turboprop Captain would clear about 3- 3.5k.
Jet f/Os in UK generally clear around 2.7 to 3.5k fulltime after the various extras firms use to avoid putting the pensionable (if you have one) salary up. A fairly new trend is to offer cadets part time/part year contracts (Thomson/Jet2 etc) so you’ll earn less than that, perhaps 70 percent, but of course still have the heavy debt and rating costs and the worry about getting a permanent contract. A lot use agencies. Ryanair offer a 20k a year salary through an agency and you earn per hour flown so take holiday and you’re on your basic salary. One previously well considered firm have just slashed their pension from 15 percent to 7 for new joiners. lovely!
It doesn’t get much better if you’re experienced, just read about NLH.
Command is a long time away. For someone like Thomson about 15 years plus. By the time you get there Captain will probably be equivalent to a 55k per year job in today’s terms with F/Os seen as apprentices on apprentice wages but still the same responsibility and even worse lifestyle.
If I were investing in it I wouldn’t look at todays terms, id look at how they were say 6 years ago and how they are now and spot the drastic trend. I was chatting to a train driver. He was on 47k basic (up to 60 plus if you choose overtime). Annualised hours and plenty of time off, pension, strong union and enjoyed his time off and seemed content with his lot. Maybe trains will head the same way though with increased automation. Depends on supply and demand.
I think Freightdog may be right. When my wife serves the flight deck crew their meals, she overhears their conversations, and a lot of the time it’s about their divorce payments to the ex wife, or how their pension has been screwed, or worrying about an impending medical etc. Plus, they usually have to commute several thousand miles to and from home to their base, because that’s the only place they could get a job. Commuting from Los Angeles to Chicago for example before having to fly to Europe. Some of them really need their midflight break she says.
A friend of mine is a train driver on the east coast mainline. 57K basic for a 35 hour four day week. Home every night (or by midday if he’s started 4am). Five day long weekend every three weeks. Final salary pension. No jet lag. Aviation looks glamorous but railways are the way to go.
They are recruiting 300 drivers for Crossrail over the next couple of years. 55K pa !
Freight Dog:
One previously well considered firm have just slashed their pension from 15 percent to 7 for new joiners. lovely!
It wasn’t ZB/MON by any chance was it?:lol:
Freight Dog:
It doesn’t get much better if you’re experienced, just read about NLH.
Why what’s the latest with them, last I heard their set up was so messy & the yanks were giving them a hard time about something…
Freight Dog:
Command is a long time away. For someone like Thomson about 15 years plus.
So I heard, I know one who left for EK last year, he’s now on the triple:grin:
Freight Dog:
Depends on supply and demand.
citycat:
They are recruiting 300 drivers for Crossrail over the next couple of years. 55K pa !
Plenty of supply but no demand on that type of job, very hard to get into:(
citycat:
, because that’s the only place they could get a job.
At least they have jobs:)
Just for Freightdog and Pimpdaddy, I thought I’d show you the driver’s bunk on a Boeing 777. It actually sleeps six people and to access it, you have to go into a cupboard at the back of the economy cabin and down some stairs. So, if you see a tired looking pilot wandering down the aisle, that’s where he’s off to.
You have to click or tap on each of the links in order, to see the photos.
mail.aol.com/webmail/getPart?ui … Render.jpg
mail.aol.com/webmail/getPart?ui … Render.jpg
mail.aol.com/webmail/getPart?ui … Render.jpg
mail.aol.com/webmail/getPart?ui … Render.jpg
mail.aol.com/webmail/getPart?ui … Render.jpg
Ughh crew rest. 1 hour trying to stop thinking with 1 further hour fitful and restless sleep before being awoke with a start with a loud buzzer on the wall hailing you back to station from the flight deck. No taking time out to watch tv and wake up with a coffee. Back to the seat and straight into being briefed on what’s happening then your handed control. Horrid feeling.
Crew rest on B747-400F
Freight Dog:
Back to the seat and straight into being briefed on what’s happening then your handed control. Horrid feeling.
Three stripes, I like that:)
