Few rules when doing many different jobs and one of them comes under EU regs -
A ‘week’ is mon 0000 to sun 2400
You must have a 45 hour unbroken rest in every other week
You must have a 24 hour unbroken rest in every week
In any week where you come under EU regs your work in the other jobs must be recorded
That other work can be recorded on a digi tacho, seperate printouts or on seperate analogue charts - one for each day worked
Each recorded work day must contain your name, date, start & finish time.
You do not need to record anything if you do not come under EU regs in that week
All this is so that the authorities can check that you have had the correct weekly rest for the EU regs
If working for agency(s) which also invloves many companies and the records are on seperate analogue cards then who gets those cards after the 28 day period
Personally if I do any EU driving in a week I only keep records for those days. If the the proverbial hits the fan for not filling in ‘blank’ charts, I will deal with that as and when!
As regards who keeps the records if you are working through an agency, it’s up to the agency to do with them as they see fit and not the drivers responsibility as once he has returned them to his employer (i.e. the agency), at that point his responsibility for them has ended.
I have my own theory as to what would happen to those ‘blank’ charts at an agency, and it involves re-cycling!
Smart Mart:
As regards who keeps the records if you are working through an agency, it’s up to the agency to do with them as they see fit and not the drivers responsibility as once he has returned them to his employer (i.e. the agency), at that point his responsibility for them has ended.
Not correct. It is not up to the agency, it is very much up to the driver and the procedure is clearly laid down in the relevant legislation.
The driver must return the records to the transport undertaking under whose orders he was subject in driving the vehicle and that is not the agency, that is the operator of the vehicle they were driving. Agencies do not have operators licences so they are not transport undertakings and it is the operator who much retain the records in accordance with the requirements of the regulations. It is the driver’s responsibility to do this not the agency and if the driver just returns them to the agency and they do not pass them on to the operator(s) it is the driver who is at fault for not returning them to the correct place(s) within the required time limit. The driver if convicted is liable to a fine not exceeding Level 4, which is a maximum of £2500.
If a driver works for 3, 4, 5 or 6 different transport companies in a week that is the number of places he must return the records to. Sure, give them to the agency and then pretend it is no longer your responsibility but would you really trust an agency with them knowing that if they lose them, or file them as you mention above, it could lead to a hefty fine for you, not the agency?
That’s a few weeks now you’ve been fishing for the answer to this one ROG. Has someone asked about it on another forum and you are desperate to give the answer?
~snip~
In any week where you come under EU regs your work in the other jobs must be recorded
That other work can be recorded on a digi tacho, seperate printouts or on seperate analogue charts - one for each day worked
Each recorded work day must contain your name, date, start & finish time.
You do not need to record anything if you do not come under EU regs in that week
All this is so that the authorities can check that you have had the correct weekly rest for the EU regs
If working for agency(s) which also invloves many companies and the records are on seperate analogue cards then who gets those cards after the 28 day period
OK lets see if we can work this out.
The transport companies will only want the charts for the days you work for them and often a written document stating that you’ve had your legally required rest periods ec’t.
So the transport company will not need or want the extra charts
The agencies will not be using the charts to keep track of your working time as this will almost certainly be done via the time sheets you hand in, also the agencies are not responsible for keeping your charts for any other purpose in fact in most cases it would be illegal for them to do so.
So the agency will not need or want the extra charts
Enforcement officers can only require the production of records from the driver for a period of 29 days (current day plus the previous 28 days).
So the enforcement authorities will not need or want the extra charts
Looks like a job for the recycle bin to me
Though personally I’d probably hang on to them for a while as a precaution
That’s a few weeks now you’ve been fishing for the answer to this one ROG. Has someone asked about it on another forum and you are desperate to give the answer?
Not sure if that’s happing but if it is then I think ROG should make it clear when asking a question that he wants the answer to reply to a post on another forum.
By the way Coffeeholic, Happy Birthday have a good one
That’s a few weeks now you’ve been fishing for the answer to this one ROG. Has someone asked about it on another forum and you are desperate to give the answer?
Not sure if that’s happing but if it is then I think ROG should make it clear when asking a question that he wants the answer to reply to a post on another forum.
It has happened, including a while back when I fed him duff information on a couple of occasions, because I knew it was for another forum, and he posted that information as fact. I don’t know if that is the situation in this case but he has been fishing for the answer for a few weeks.
A good while back I had a series of PM’s from him asking questions, which I was happy to answer until I saw those answers, almost word for word, popping up on a different forum shortly after I had answered his PM, with no acknowledgement the answer wasn’t from his own knowledge. I am happy to help anyone on tacho related questions, and probably do 2 or 3 a day, on average, via PM in addition to the ones asked on the forums but a bit of credit is nice now and again.
I admire your patience in the your first post on this thread in taking the time to point out the bleeding obvious to him, I really can’t be bothered in doing that any more, he wants to be a tacho expert I’m going to let him work it out for himself from now on, especially on topics such as this which have been asked and answered several times before and which a simple read of teh regulations would answer.
Sadly I think ROG is typical of driver trainers and tacho experts teaching drivers the CPC, and I know you have first hand experience of this, with no real working knowledge of the tachograph, haven’t used one for years but never mind that won’t stop them answering questions and passing on their ‘wisdom’.
tachograph:
By the way Coffeeholic, Happy Birthday have a good one
That’s a few weeks now you’ve been fishing for the answer to this one ROG. Has someone asked about it on another forum and you are desperate to give the answer?
Nope - I just wanted to know out of personal curiousity - no other reason
It was stated on one post that all those cards must be handed to the operator when the driver did 5 days at a non-driving job and one day at an EU regs driving job so I wondered what would be the case in the situation presented in the first post
Coffeeholic:
A good while back I had a series of PM’s from him asking questions, which I was happy to answer until I saw those answers, almost word for word, popping up on a different forum shortly after I had answered his PM, with no acknowledgement the answer wasn’t from his own knowledge.
That’s a few weeks now you’ve been fishing for the answer to this one ROG. Has someone asked about it on another forum and you are desperate to give the answer?
Nope - I just wanted to know out of personal curiousity - no other reason
It was stated on one post that all those cards must be handed to the operator when the driver did 5 days at a non-driving job and one day at an EU regs driving job
So you knew the answer all along, there is no operator for the 5 non driving job days.
Coffeeholic:
So you knew the answer all along, there is no operator for the 5 non driving job days
EH!!!
Lets see if I have this right…
If one day is done under EU regs and five are not - do all the analogue cards for those five days go to the operator who the driver worked for on the EU day
Coffeeholic:
So you knew the answer all along, there is no operator for the 5 non driving job days
EH!!!
Lets see if I have this right…
If one day is done under EU regs and five are not - do all the analogue cards for those five days go to the operator who the driver worked for on the EU day
All records go to the transport undertaking (the operator) under whose order you were subject to on that day. Now look at the bit in red above and see if that gives you a clue.
Or failing that just [zb]ing read the explanation Tachograph took the time to post, he explains it very clearly. What is the point in people reply to you if you can’t even be bothered to read the replies? You really are a trumpet sometimes.
I still say that if analogue tachos are used to record other work done in the usual job then they need to be handed in and my reason is that the same info can be downloaded onto a digi tacho card which would get downloaded into the part time driving employers equipment - it does not make sense that one sort would not be done and the other would…
but my ASSUMPTION is now proven to be WRONG - nothing new there then
Smart Mart:
As regards who keeps the records if you are working through an agency, it’s up to the agency to do with them as they see fit and not the drivers responsibility as once he has returned them to his employer (i.e. the agency), at that point his responsibility for them has ended.
Not correct. It is not up to the agency, it is very much up to the driver and the procedure is clearly laid down in the relevant legislation.
The driver must return the records to the transport undertaking under whose orders he was subject in driving the vehicle and that is not the agency, that is the operator of the vehicle they were driving. Agencies do not have operators licences so they are not transport undertakings and it is the operator who much retain the records in accordance with the requirements of the regulations. It is the driver’s responsibility to do this not the agency and if the driver just returns them to the agency and they do not pass them on to the operator(s) it is the driver who is at fault for not returning them to the correct place(s) within the required time limit. The driver if convicted is liable to a fine not exceeding Level 4, which is a maximum of £2500.
If a driver works for 3, 4, 5 or 6 different transport companies in a week that is the number of places he must return the records to. Sure, give them to the agency and then pretend it is no longer your responsibility but would you really trust an agency with them knowing that if they lose them, or file them as you mention above, it could lead to a hefty fine for you, not the agency?
Thanks for that reply. I now find it a bit worrying that when I let my agency have my charts, they are not responsible for them. I assumed that as I was employed by the agency that they were the transport undertaking. I guess that’s why they are very keen to get the charts back as soon as they are due, so that they can return them to the companies the work was done for, before the return deadline.
It’s always nice to learn something new - thank you Coffeeholic.
Smart Mart:
I guess that’s why they are very keen to get the charts back as soon as they are due, so that they can return them to the companies the work was done for, before the return deadline.
Some companies will only pay the agency after the charts have been returned, so it is in the agencies interest to return the charts to the transport undertaking promptly.
