GasGas:
a uk born prime minister with Lithuanian heritage\\If you mean Boris Johnson, he was born in the USA
But unlike the Bruce Springsteen album, he’s absolute crap.
Thanks for correcting me!.. either way anyone with a slight positive thought that the great grandson of Ali Kemal Beg is going to do what’s right for this country or its working class needs there head tested!!
dbk23:
GasGas:
a uk born prime minister with Lithuanian heritage\\If you mean Boris Johnson, he was born in the USA
But unlike the Bruce Springsteen album, he’s absolute crap.
Thanks for correcting me!.. either way anyone with a slight positive thought that the great grandson of Ali Kemal Beg is going to do what’s right for this country or its working class needs there head tested!!
Yeh we should have plummed for Corbyn instead, he’d have done much better eh? 
You can only play with the cards you are dealt mate, the others are still in the pack, so the only option is to make the best of that hand…no other. 
So based on that analogy, what non fantasy but feasible alternative would you suggest?
Ignoring the Brexit MAJORITY (however small) btw, is not an option in a democracy…so come on, let’s hear it…
Had the Conservative Party elected Rory Stewart as leader, I’d have voted for him.
robroy:
dbk23:
GasGas:
a uk born prime minister with Lithuanian heritage\\If you mean Boris Johnson, he was born in the USA
But unlike the Bruce Springsteen album, he’s absolute crap.
Thanks for correcting me!.. either way anyone with a slight positive thought that the great grandson of Ali Kemal Beg is going to do what’s right for this country or its working class needs there head tested!!
Yeh we should have plummed for Corbyn instead, he’d have done much better eh?
You can only play with the cards you are dealt mate, the others are still in the pack, so the only option is to make the best of that hand…no other.
So based on that analogy, what non fantasy but feasible alternative would you suggest?
Ignoring the Brexit MAJORITY (however small) btw, is not an option in a democracy…so come on, let’s hear it…
Haha, none because I don’t believe in the illusion of choice given to us, be they red, blue, green they are all essentially controlled by the same hands.
Maybe we should do what the Belgians done… but we’re far to divided todo that.
Oh and if I’d believed in the illusion of brexit I’d of voted out…
Note that an unelected appointee without security clearance (Dom ■■■■■■■■■ now has ‘hire and fire’ powers over the Cabinet and civil service. No-one voted for him and he’s not even a member of the Conservative Party. He has refused to appear before a Parliamentary Select Committee investigating electoral irregularities, putting him in contempt of Parliament, yet he is at the heart of Government.
BJ initially supported the ‘May deal’ (as Foreign Secretary) but then changed his mind…who made him do that?
BJ claims to want to lead the whole country in unity, but has attempted to bar journalists that aren’t on ‘Team Boris’ from Downing Street press briefings.
The Govt Petition Parliament website is broken, and no one will say when it will be reinstated.
It’s all moving in a very worrying direction.
As for what should be changed/ditched there are many on my list should France ever leave the “CLUB of corruption”, here’s hoping.
For the UK, bring back sovereignty, the UK has been damaged by all the crap from Brussels/Strasbourg/Lisbon for too long.
I hope it works in your favour.
Found this, might make you smile 
Of any positives to come out of leaving the EU, the one I would really love to see the most is the absolute bombshell for transport planners up and down the country:
Abolition of the 9 hour reduced daily rest. 15 hour shifts, consigned to the history bin and not before time. I’d pay to see CCTV footage of that news being delivered to the Stobart planners and the like.
rob22888:
Of any positives to come out of leaving the EU, the one I would really love to see the most is the absolute bombshell for transport planners up and down the country:Abolition of the 9 hour reduced daily rest. 15 hour shifts, consigned to the history bin and not before time. I’d pay to see CCTV footage of that news being delivered to the Stobart planners and the like.
what are gb domestic hours then because if we get rid of the eu hours the gov wont bring in new hours that cost their mates money.
cooper1203:
rob22888:
Of any positives to come out of leaving the EU, the one I would really love to see the most is the absolute bombshell for transport planners up and down the country:Abolition of the 9 hour reduced daily rest. 15 hour shifts, consigned to the history bin and not before time. I’d pay to see CCTV footage of that news being delivered to the Stobart planners and the like.
what are gb domestic hours then because if we get rid of the eu hours the gov wont bring in new hours that cost their mates money.
From hazy memory…
Can be on duty for up to 16hrs a day, but only 10 of those hours can be classed as work ie driving/other work 
10 hours off between shifts, can be reduced to 8.5hrs rest between shifts up to three times a week
Must have a minimum of 24hrs off every two weeks (In theory on domestic its possible to work 365 days a year!)
30 min break after 5.5hrs driving
Or at 8.5hrs driving breaks TOTALLING 45 mins (note totalling, not in one go)
Sounds loads better that…
Could go AETR? Problem being that those are now aligned with the EU drivers hours…
Look the current rules are not perfect but as you’ve alluded to the alternatives are either worse or non-existent.
Anyone hoping that a government who wants to erode workers rights to the point of repealing legislation that is designed to protect us will come up with a new set of rules that is better for the little man may be a tad disappointed.
toonsy:
cooper1203:
rob22888:
Of any positives to come out of leaving the EU, the one I would really love to see the most is the absolute bombshell for transport planners up and down the country:Abolition of the 9 hour reduced daily rest. 15 hour shifts, consigned to the history bin and not before time. I’d pay to see CCTV footage of that news being delivered to the Stobart planners and the like.
what are gb domestic hours then because if we get rid of the eu hours the gov wont bring in new hours that cost their mates money.
From hazy memory…
Can be on duty for up to 16hrs a day, but only 10 of those hours can be classed as work ie driving/other work
10 hours off between shifts, can be reduced to 8.5hrs rest between shifts up to three times a week
Must have a minimum of 24hrs off every two weeks
30 min break after 5.5hrs driving
Or at 8.5hrs driving breaks TOTALLING 45 mins (note totalling, not in one go)
Sounds loads better that…
Could go AETR? Problem being that those are now aligned with the EU drivers hours…
Look the current rules are not perfect but as you’ve alluded to the alternatives are either worse or non-existent.
Anyone hoping that a government who wants to erode workers rights to the point of repealing legislation that is designed to protect us will come up with a new set of rules that is better for the little man may be a tad disappointed.
I guess its swings and roundabouts 10 hours a day driving or other work is better than 15 hours (I know a company that expected you to work the full 15 every day) it depends what the other 6 can be used for
rest periods between shifts are slightly less (maximum of an hour) however unless you are doing something like night trunking where your pick up or drop off is open 24 hours a day there is no point setting off in the small hours to the customer as they wont be open. I cant see a company paying you to sit outside the customer for 3 hours.
driving breaks are obviously worse in the sense that you do 5.5 hours driving for 30 min break rather than an hour less driving for 15 min extra break. However I have yet to work with someone that takes the full 45 in one go. Also having to balance it with the wtd breaks is a pain 15 min is barely enough time to have a pee and get a drink if you have managed to stop somewhere you can do that. In my limited experience you don’t get paid for breaks either so your loosing less unpaid time sat in a layby twiddling your thumbs. Just realised that this aligns its self with wtd ie having 30 min break if working 6 hours and slightly better for the more than working 9 hours you only have to do 8.5
The draw back to all this is of course the possibility of having to work 13 days with out a day off. Would that be a reality I’m honestly not sure I can see case both for and against having to do that
Let me explain the reason why your boss will sell his first born tomorrow, if he was allowed to run on do.estic hours.
As stated, no requirements for proper weekly rest.
As stated, drive 5.5 hours, and earn a 30 minute break.
NO REQUIREMENT FOR A MINIMUM CONTINUOUS DAILY REST.
I’ll repeat that. No requirement for a minimum continuous daily rest. The DR state maximum allowed working hours. Any rest/break periods taken, do not count towards duty time. So if you have a total of 4 hours break during the day, your daily rest period will be at most 9 hours. But it wont be classed as a reduced rest. You can do that 7 days a week…
Box jockeys on local work will not see their home again.
Mate forget “in your experience” because theres a wider industry out there and I’m certain many others have experienced stuff that counters all of your points. I know I have.
The point is that domestic rules actually allow you to drive more. There are no weekly limits as such. (up to 70 hours weekly because that’s 10hrs a day x 7 days in a week, and account for the following week with a day off so 60hrs - or 130hrs in a fortnight compared to the current 90hrs).
You can be on duty longer, have less time off, drive more, have less breaks. Have a look into local bus drivers work schedules and rotas because they run on GB hours. They’re not good, take that from “my own experience” because I’ve done it.
And the most amazing thing is that people want to ditch rules that actually prevent us from working more
Whether the rules are right or wrong as things stand is a different debate, and I’m sure we can all think of ways to make them better, but reverting to a set of hours with LESS protection isn’t the way IMO.
Turkey’s voting for christmas!
toonsy:
Mate forget “in your experience” because theres a wider industry out there and I’m certain many others have experienced stuff that counters all of your points. I know I have.The point is that domestic rules actually allow you to drive more. There are no weekly limits as such. (up to 70 hours weekly because that’s 10hrs a day x 7 days in a week, and account for the following week with a day off so 60hrs - or 130hrs in a fortnight compared to the current 90hrs).
You can be on duty longer, have less time off, drive more, have less breaks.
so you would scrap wtd then or just the bits that don’t work in your favour
cooper1203:
toonsy:
Mate forget “in your experience” because theres a wider industry out there and I’m certain many others have experienced stuff that counters all of your points. I know I have.The point is that domestic rules actually allow you to drive more. There are no weekly limits as such. (up to 70 hours weekly because that’s 10hrs a day x 7 days in a week, and account for the following week with a day off so 60hrs - or 130hrs in a fortnight compared to the current 90hrs).
You can be on duty longer, have less time off, drive more, have less breaks.
so you would scrap wtd then or just the bits that don’t work in your favour
Sorry I’ve edited my post while you replied, saying that the rules as things stand aren’t perfect and sure could be altered, but that going on GB domestic isn’t the way. If you think there aren’t companies who would exploit drivers being able to work more i think youre in for a shock.
I’d personally scrap WTD and just run in EU rules, they are tighter generally than WTD.
rob22888:
Of any positives to come out of leaving the EU, the one I would really love to see the most is the absolute bombshell for transport planners up and down the country:Abolition of the 9 hour reduced daily rest. 15 hour shifts, consigned to the history bin and not before time. I’d pay to see CCTV footage of that news being delivered to the Stobart planners and the like.
Agree entirely.
It’s become the norm with many firms just to plan limits as targets every week, thus putting pressure on their drivers, and risking driver fatigue with all the pitfalls and disasters that condition can bring.
(Not counting the ‘Transport teararse heroes’ in that btw who we all have to endure why they continue to exacerbate the problem for everybody else. 
)
What can the other 6 hours be used for under domestic rules? is it just different definitions of other work and driving?
cooper1203:
What can the other 6 hours be used for under domestic rules? is it just different definitions of other work and driving?
Most of it was time on layover, so waiting at a bus stop for the next route to start for example there might be 16 minutes between arriving and departing. That sort of thing. POA if you like, and breaks obviously, but it’s any time not working or driving, so those hours on a bay would fit neatly into there.
Thing is, people complain about the long hours and short turnaround between shifts now. That’s because companies (some not all) exploit the rules to the maximum. Extending the maximum just increases the explotation.as there will be planners up and down the country who would in theory be able to plan you longer by pushing to a 16hr day and then getting you to crack on again after 8.5hrs off. Your planner and my planner might not, but there will be some so why give them any ammunition to make it worse?
Seems to me there is some muddled thinking going on here. If the EU rules on driving/working aren`t strict enough, i.e. they allow too short rest periods etc, then they need strengthening, not banning!
If we as workers are exploited, within the law, then we need to use unions, and/or MPs to change the laws.
If politicians listen to businesses more than workers, then vote in a different bunch of politicians.
.
In or out of the EU, we are in a regulated industry, and only law changes will improve things for the majority. There are certainly honourable employers out there, but not enough compared to big, penny pinching, businesses.
Franglais:
Seems to me there is some muddled thinking going on here. If the EU rules on driving/working aren`t strict enough, i.e. they allow too short rest periods etc, then they need strengthening, not banning!
If we as workers are exploited, within the law, then we need to use unions, and/or MPs to change the laws.
If politicians listen to businesses more than workers, then vote in a different bunch of politicians.
.
In or out of the EU, we are in a regulated industry, and only law changes will improve things for the majority. There are certainly honourable employers out there, but not enough compared to big, penny pinching, businesses.
Thing is I cant think of a single party that didn’t have an mp that wanted to remain for their own benefit despite their constituents voting to leave. They are all self serving imbeciles. The government and businesses have had it too easy for the last 10-15 years with a surplice of workers willing to do long days for little money. forcing everyone else to compete for the same jobs.
I was kind of in the same boat. would I like a job that I only work x number of hours for good money of course I would but as a new pass I have to work for the companies that are willing to take on new passes which I do realise makes it harder for those that have experience to get a fair wage. Best anyone can do is do the rough work for a couple of years then get the better/ easier / more money job. Unfortunately its the way it has been for decades. Everyone started off at the bottom of the ladder doing the long shifts and donkey work before working their way up.
Personally I think there has to be a balance of power between drivers and the companies if either one has too much some will exploit the other to the letter of the law.
Sand Fisher:
Darkside:
Savid Javid has asked the public to say which EU Regulation they want to get rid of first.What would you ditch first?
In drivers hours:
- Ban the 9 hour rest reduction unless taken away from base.
- Allow 3 x 15 minute driving breaks as a minimum (instead of this useless 15 + 30) so long as there is ■■■■■■■■■■■■ no more than 4.5 hours driving between 45 minutes in total rest breaks. A 15 min break is often useless whereas in a 20 - 25 minute break you can usually get some scran.
A 15 min break is just about a ■■■■ break at a MSA!
so drivers would be legal to carrying on working, as in get back to the yard and set off again, but if the load wasn’t ready or they just wanted to go home they’d be illegal once over 13 hours?
It was changed from 3x15s to stop
drive 1 min
break 30
drive 4:29
break 15
Drive 4:30
As the extreme example, I can’t see it ever being changed back because of this, not sure what you mean by not more than 4.5 between a 45 as that would mean you couldn’t split a 45