Zac_A:
[I realise you’re young, but even my 15 year old understands that … fuel inflation is up because of the wider global political situation.
Your 15 yr old can be excused, but you’re delusional. David Cameron could have built nuclear power stations. Look at the difference between how Norway and England have treated North sea oil and gas. Difference between the USA and us on fracking. We could have spent furlough on providing a source of free fuel for the UK.
Zac_A:
adam277:
Zac_A:
Just like in the 1930s, many people didn’t care about Hitler, in the early stages…We need to help Ukraine fight Putin in their backyard, it we don’t, we’ll be fighting him in our back yard. There’s no “peace deal” that can be made with a maniacal dictator.
I feel like you guys have a short term memory.
You said you left school in 2007, that makes you half my age, so my memories are far more extensive than yours.
adam277:
Maybe I am wrong though… but please tell me how Ukraine can win this war in a way that is good for anyone lol?Like I say, we cannot afford to stand back and allow that to happen, because whatever it costs us to support Ukraine is peanuts compared to what it will cost us if we do not support them. Russia’s invasion has already changed the world, Finland is already in NATO, and Sweden in the process of joining, Ukraine will (one day) be the eastern-most border of NATO. Putin has shot himself in the foot big-style, like all dictators do eventually (see Operation Barbarossa for a comparison)
Easy to say when your fighting with the lives of Ukrainians. If you support the war go and join.
I admire your enthusiasm though. Maybe Ukraine will succeed. Highly unlikely considering we will not send any troops into Ukraine but maybe it is possible.
stu675:
Zac_A:
[I realise you’re young, but even my 15 year old understands that … fuel inflation is up because of the wider global political situation.
Your 15 yr old can be excused, but you’re delusional. David Cameron could have built nuclear power stations. Look at the difference between how Norway and England have treated North sea oil and gas. Difference between the USA and us on fracking. We could have spent furlough on providing a source of free fuel for the UK.
[/quote]
I recall your ideas on “natural immunity” to covid, so you’ll have to forgive me questioning your ability to draw rational conclusions on economics as well as immunnology. Nothing in life is free, everything is paid for one way or another.
adam277:
Zac_A:
adam277:
Zac_A:
Just like in the 1930s, many people didn’t care about Hitler, in the early stages…We need to help Ukraine fight Putin in their backyard, it we don’t, we’ll be fighting him in our back yard. There’s no “peace deal” that can be made with a maniacal dictator.
I feel like you guys have a short term memory.
adam277:
Maybe I am wrong though… but please tell me how Ukraine can win this war in a way that is good for anyone lol?Like I say, we cannot afford to stand back and allow that to happen, because whatever it costs us to support Ukraine is peanuts compared to what it will cost us if we do not support them. Russia’s invasion has already changed the world, Finland is already in NATO, and Sweden in the process of joining, Ukraine will (one day) be the eastern-most border of NATO. Putin has shot himself in the foot big-style, like all dictators do eventually (see Operation Barbarossa for a comparison)
Easy to say when your fighting with the lives of Ukrainians. If you support the war go and join.
I admire your enthusiasm though. Maybe Ukraine will succeed. Highly unlikely considering we will not send any troops into Ukraine but maybe it is possible.
They have to succeed, the west will not allow them not to. And Ukraine aren’t asking for “boots on the ground”, only for “the tools to finish the job” - there’s a historical quote for you to Google
I don’t understand those that are desperate to hold the USA’s handbag once again, as with all the other regime change wars where we’ve faithfully followed the Clinton Bush Obama blessed war machine like some eager labrador puppy.
Russia is not some middle eastern or north african state about to be slaughtered, Russia will not be rolled over ready to have some puppet govt installed to suit the USA’s big business oligarchs.
I expect we’re going to be dragged in anyway, The USA will install the NATO leader of its own choice, one who will do as they are told, our govt will also do as its told…though don’t suppose they’ll be at the front lines personally.
Don’t be too surprised if it all goes ■■■■ up and the hypersonic missiles start arriving here, if the USA really does send cluster bombs they’ve started the race to armageddon.
As for furlough, never wanted it, the govt can stick their bribery where the sun doesn’t shine.
Zelensky has literally been asking for boots on the ground.
And now the Pentagon (of this failed administration) has officially confirmed US forces on the ground in Ukraine.
This info is 2 months old.
So what’s the alternative here exactly?
A US President the likes of Neville Chamberlain, speaking to Putin and bringing back another ‘piece of paper’. 
Appeasement never works with a dictator.
It’s the same principle right down the line,…from hostile international incidents, to when you are a kid at school, if you give a bully his own way,.he carries on willy nilly,.the more he gets away with,.the more he does.
If somebody has the balls to stand up to him,.and show him he ain’t taking any crap, the bully stops…
Marky-p:
Zelensky has literally been asking for boots on the ground.And now the Pentagon (of this failed administration) has officially confirmed US forces on the ground in Ukraine.
This info is 2 months old.
“Black ops teams” operating in Ukraine is NOT “Boots on the Ground” as such.
A US-led invasion of Ukraine to drive out Russian troops would be, however, like the US-led coalition did in Kuwait for Gulf War I 32 years ago.
robroy:
So what’s the alternative here exactly?
A US President the likes of Neville Chamberlain, speaking to Putin and bringing back another ‘piece of paper’.
Appeasement never works with a dictator.It’s the same principle right down the line,…from hostile international incidents, to when you are a kid at school, if you give a bully his own way,.he carries on willy nilly,.the more he gets away with,.the more he does.
If somebody has the balls to stand up to him,.and show him he ain’t taking any crap, the bully stops…
youtube.com/watch?v=MX61U61ycec
Trump, was an isolationist. Had no interest in NATO.
There was no Ukraine invasion under Trump because he had zero interest in nato expansionism. He was also extremely critical of the Ukraine administration under Zelenskyy.
He also said ■■■■ it and went to North Korea and spoke to that tin pot dictator. Because 50+ years of isolationism and sanctions have not worked. Now, did he get anywhere? Does not seem that way. But that is something Biden would never do.
I mean to me Biden is basically a bush/Obama clone and is all for nato expansionism.
Well worth having a look at the timeline with Ukraine / Trump. it was clear that under Trump Ukraine joining NATO was not going to happen at all.
Maybe the war would of happened anyway… but personally I think it has to do more with Biden getting into power and reversing all of the NATO cuts and promising to do more with NATO.
euractiv.com/section/europe … d-georgia/
You can not say Putin did not warn the US lol.
cnbc.com/2021/12/08/biden-d … means.html
Putin told Biden that Ukraine’s bid to join NATO must be denied in return for assurances that Russian troops would not carry out an attack. Ukraine has sought acceptance into the alliance since 2002.
adam277:
Zac_A:
Just like in the 1930s, many people didn’t care about Hitler, in the early stages…We need to help Ukraine fight Putin in their backyard, it we don’t, we’ll be fighting him in our back yard. There’s no “peace deal” that can be made with a maniacal dictator.
I feel like you guys have a short term memory.
WW3 was going to happen if Russia did not remove nukes from Cuba. Thankfully they did.
Now we have nukes surrounding Russia in Germany and in other European countries… (Pretty sure that was not part of the agreement when Russia left Germany and it got unified).
I just do not understand the double standards. We was willing to go to war with Russia over nukes on our doorstep yet we can do it with Russia and they are meant to roll over and take it?
Like with these cluster bombs… we condemned Russia for using them in Syria… now we are handing them over to Ukraine to use lol.It just strikes me as the same selective blindness that is afforded to Israel lol. Yea, they can annex wherever they want and we do nothing about it because Palestinian refugees do not matter. But if Russia annexes parts of Ukraine… hang man we need GO TO WAR.
I am not going to relink what I already posted. But there was an agreement when the USSR fell. That was that NATO would not move its borders.
youtu.be/3wB9uL2lKaw - Gorbachev speaking sense in 97
youtu.be/HFGEhtnUzJQI’m not saying Russia is not a bad actor. But when the USSR fell. We could of extended an olive branch to Russia instead we surrounded them.
But ALL that aside. Let’s say [zb] what we agreed with Russia we want to surround you and make sure you do not do anything silly because we do not trust you. Ukraine can not win this war.
There is no almost a zero chance of Ukraine winning this war. Giving Ukraine more weapons does prolong the conflict and hurt Russia for sure. But if you check Russia’s economy they reduced their debt before going into the war and significantly increased their gold stockpiles. they are not going to go bankrupt from this war. So the only real option is Ukraine will win militarily. But even if they do push Russia back… You have Belarus who is Putin’s lap dog who can be called into action and they have around 4 million people fit for service and almost half a million active service personnel.But let’s say Ukraine beats Russia back and Belarus if they step into the fray. Well that means the fall of Putin most likely. But if your praying on some rationale thinking guy like Gorbachev getting into power… Unlikely.
Chances are it will be someone like Yevgeny Prigozhin (the guy who marched towards Moscow). This is a guy who would have no qualms about cluster bombing Kyiv. He has been saying throughout the war that Russia has been fighting with its hands tied behind its back. Because believe it or not Putin has not been going all out. There have been atrocities for sure. But they have generally been more targeted and not indiscriminate. Just to be clear Russia has the capability to level Kyiv without nukes to ash. Putin clearly does not want to do that. I believe Prigozhin would do that in an instant just look at what he did with Bakhmut and that was with man power alone.Maybe I am wrong though… but please tell me how Ukraine can win this war in a way that is good for anyone lol?
This is like the same argument about the removal of Gaddafi… Libya will be better without him… he a bad guy… and now Libya is a [zb] and a lawless cesspool like Somalia.
Prigozhin has the approval of the Right-Wing of the Duma house of Russian Parliament.
What he meant by “Hands tied behind his back” is that he is not allowed to target Civilians, which just means the Ukrainians can take up positions within a populated area, fire at any currently Russian-controlled local neighborhood with impunity, not caring about their own citizens that get pulverized by incoming Ukrainian fire, whilst Russian forces - cannot shoot back, as the Ukrainian positions effectively have “Human Shields”…
Prigozhin has demanded (and I suspect has got) approval for more hardline tactics, like old-fashioned warfare:
Kill all enemy whereever you find them, buildings and civilians - expendable always.
I wouldn’t be surpised at this point if Pregozhin suddenly pops up back in Ukraine again, and totally slaughters a ukrainian force living among ordinary civilians, now that such gloves may well be “Off” - curtesy NOT of Putin, but rather his right-wing Duma that will only continue to support him in office - if he does their bidding!
It might be hard for some to grasp, but Putin is a moderate compared to some of these Duma maniacs that would drop the bomb on us all at the drop of a hat, rather than this so-called “Nuclear Football” we keep hearing about…
robroy:
So what’s the alternative here exactly?
A US President the likes of Neville Chamberlain, speaking to Putin and bringing back another ‘piece of paper’.
Appeasement never works with a dictator.It’s the same principle right down the line,…from hostile international incidents, to when you are a kid at school, if you give a bully his own way,.he carries on willy nilly,.the more he gets away with,.the more he does.
If somebody has the balls to stand up to him,.and show him he ain’t taking any crap, the bully stops…
There has always been this narrative-induced assumption from the start that
“Once Putin succeeds in Ukraine, the rest of Europe will quickly come under similar invasion.”
Wot a load of ■■■■■■■■!
It’s like the EU telling the UK that “Yes, Britain can have a quickly-agreed soft brexit signed off by Brussels, with full legacy access to the free market forever absolutely free as a goodwill gesture of the EU parliament they have now left”…
Instead of “If we let Britain go without a fight, and stop charging them indefinitely - Britain will quickly annex other would-be leavers of the EU like Iceland and Ireland”…
Instead of over-thinking the future, maybe the best thing to do was “Keep it simple, from the start”.
It doesn’t matter what why and how we voted for something - just get it done in due speed and effect…
OR… Democracy Itself will be at stake in the future when future “winners” of general elections get told "Sorry bud, you only won 52% to 48% - which means your 4% margin of victory is now recognized as a “Hung Parliament” and “Zombie Government” in due course, with that 48% being encouraged to protest on the streets “Not my government!” at every opportunity for the next 4 years…
Winseer:
It might be hard for some to grasp, but Putin is a moderate compared to some of these Duma maniacs that would drop the bomb on us all at the drop of a hat, rather than this so-called “Nuclear Football” we keep hearing about…
And yet you get people like Zac that no doubt want Putin ousted from power.
Which could very well happen if Russia lose.
It’s one of those things though, be careful what you wish for. We are playing a dangerous game and if we not careful we might win… Winning might not achieve the results you hope for. We’ve all seen enough American regime changes to know this lesson.
Wow…I’m being told I’m talking ■■■■■■■■ by the man who is fluent in the same language…the absolute irony. .
Show me exactly where I mentioned that Putin would attempt to invade the rest of all.Europe. you said that mate …not me.
My point was if he had got away scot free with his Ukraine invasion,.after the.same in Crimea,.where would he strike next?.. Poland? Czech? Other Eastern ex Commie states.?
His ambition which is being stopped by NATO alone is to restore the old Soviet ‘kingdom’ territories and states post 45.
Zac_A:
[emoji38] [emoji38] I recall your ideas on “natural immunity” to covid, so you’ll have to forgive me questioning your ability to draw rational conclusions on economics as well as immunnology. Nothing in life is free, everything is paid for one way or another.
Where has COVID gone? If not for natural immunity we’d be in no different a situation than 3 years ago.
To play devil’s advocate…
And since Trump has been mentioned, notice that this ‘invasion’ did not happen during his administration. Notice that Putin made his moves under Bush, Obama and now Biden. What does that tell you?
That Biden is weak on foreign policy.
I’m neither pro-Putin nor pro-Ukraine for that matter - I’m pro not wasting taxpayers money.
This matter could be settled by the U.S giving Putin an ‘off-ramp’ so he can save face, and to then negotiate a peace deal. A negotiation that Putin actually expected at the beginning believe it or not.
Then we can stop giving Ukraine blank cheques, probably well over $150 billion U.S & UK combined so far, to one of the most corrupt governments known to man. Most people seem to hold up Zelensky and Ukraine as this model of democracy, but he has no qualms doing things like shutting down news stations that criticise him.
To top things off, the U.S have not even assigned an Inspector General to keep track of where all their money is going. At least Rishi Sunak has declared that the UK money will be fully audited.
Now let me go outside and make sure my Ukraine flag is still outside my house, oh wait…
Yea there is no interest on the side of the west in terms of peace.
Nothing short of Ukraine getting all their land back will be considered acceptable. That includes Crimeia that was annexed in around 2014. That is heavily pro Russian due to it being a popular holiday destination plus how much money Russia has been pouring into it.
For those who just want the war to end, it is annoying the lack of compromise on the side of the west. I do think Putin will stop this war. But he needs an opportunity to save face.
stu675:
Zac_A:
[emoji38] [emoji38] I recall your ideas on “natural immunity” to covid, so you’ll have to forgive me questioning your ability to draw rational conclusions on economics as well as immunnology. Nothing in life is free, everything is paid for one way or another.
Where has COVID gone? If not for natural immunity we’d be in no different a situation than 3 years ago.
Nah… I’m not going to try to explain immunology to you again when you were totally resistant to it last time. There is no natural immunity to a virus that undergoes constant mutation, as coronaviruses do.
Zac_A:
stu675:
Zac_A:
[emoji38] [emoji38] I recall your ideas on “natural immunity” to covid, so you’ll have to forgive me questioning your ability to draw rational conclusions on economics as well as immunnology. Nothing in life is free, everything is paid for one way or another.
Where has COVID gone? If not for natural immunity we’d be in no different a situation than 3 years ago.
Nah… I’m not going to try to explain immunology to you again when you were totally resistant to it last time. There is no natural immunity to a virus that undergoes constant mutation, as coronaviruses do.
Great [emoji2][emoji106] so you agree with me that the entire vaccination program for a “virus that undergoes constant mutation, as coronaviruses do” was a complete waste [emoji6][emoji23]
Must admit I’m puzzled by my friend’s one yr old baby that can get a cold (coronavirus?) every single week but fight it off in a day compared with me getting one every year or so that lasts weeks. It’s almost like I’ve developed some natural immunity to a group of similar viruses. But what do I know [emoji6][emoji8]
stu675:
Great [emoji2][emoji106] so you agree with me that the entire vaccination program for a “virus that undergoes constant mutation, as coronaviruses do” was a complete waste [emoji6][emoji23]
No, stopping the previous different strains of the disease was definitely worthwhile.
stu675:
Must admit I’m puzzled by my friend’s one yr old baby that can get a cold (coronavirus?) every single week but fight it off in a day compared with me getting one every year or so that lasts weeks. It’s almost like I’ve developed some natural immunity to a group of similar viruses. But what do I know [emoji6][emoji8]
Well yes, exactly, you’re not scientifically trained and are resistant to scientific information. “Having a cold” does not equate to coronavirus infection, most “colds” are rhinitis, ie inflammation of the nasal membranes, not coronavirus. Similarly most cases of “the flu” are just a bad case of rhinitis, potentially a coronavirus infection, not so commonly are they “influenza”. There’s a vast difference between a scientific/medical diagnosis and what people think they have. You really need to stop using that phrase “natural immunity”, it’s wildly inaccurate.
Don’t we have a COVID topic? 
None of us are experts about anything here haha. It’s a truckers forum. I think we did have an expert in fridges once. Forgot his name but I remember being accused of being him.