Just curious as to when wages started falling in hgv driving? When I started in 2007 the agency rate was 6.50 an hour which was either minimum wage or 50 pence above min wage. Since then its gone up maybe 50 pence every 2 years.
Just before you started.
For lorry drivers and general working class people, the influx of east europeans after the EU absorbed the fortmer eastern block, and our anti working class politicians (themselves and their owners unaffected, indeed benefitting, from hordes of cheap labour) not doing as most other western nation and putting a block on labour movement from those countries.
The impact of large and constant immigration from those countries caused stagnation in the wage prospects of the working class in many sectors, i don’t blame the EE’s one bit for coming but make no mistake it caused a massive shift in supply and demand for labour.
Not forgetting the other elephant in the room, the huge impact after 1997 when the Blair led govt set out to flood the country with unlimited immgration from the third world, something that hasn’t been stopped since despite all the false promises from Blue Labour and from which the country will never recover.
Third world mass immigration hasn’t directly affected lorry driver labour as such because immigrants from the third world are (to date) rare as lorry drivers, though they and globilisation generally caused other jobs to be displaced and lots have since turned to lorry driving as a second career, however increasing the population at an unsustainable rate has caused massive ongoing problems for the country as a whole though this is a conversation for another time and is difficult to have without someone screaming 'ist at one or if someone with a career dare say can be cancelled.
Wages in this game have had peaks and troughs all the time i’ve been doing it, the 80’s were good after the minor recession of 81 (if i recall correctly) and growing until around 1990 when we hit a bit of flat spot again, but that wasn’t too bad and we made decent wage growth in the 90’s.
Then along came the EE’s in the noughties.
Personally i wasn’t too affected by the EU lorry driver immigrants because i was on car transporters in those days, and very few EE lads found success on that game, it wasn’t any sort of 'ism or 'ist involved, some got on well but they were few in number.
It was the supermarkets etc which soon found they could ditch their previous good pay contracts for drivers and instead fill seats with people prepared to work for much lower pay, intially at least.
Then came the financial mayhem of the late noughties, caused by greed and incompetence but never fear those responsible were never punished but actually rewarded.
Since then with constant mass immigration from all countries and the displacement of further previously decent careers, ever more often older natives have taken their tests and moved into lorry driving, this forum is filled with second or third career lorry drivers, i don’t blame them one bit for doing so, needs must, but obviously it has all had an affect.
Its obvious that the EE numbers kept the supply and demand ratio in the employer’s favour, you only have to look at the current pay increases for the previously poorly paid drivers since so many have gone back since IR35 and the recent pandemic scam, though the increasing number of lorry drivers retiring must also be taken into account.
Remember, we can only speak personally, and our career stories will all be different.
I was 25…
When I got a job with Wincanton chilled at their depot in Brentford.
We were paid on a standards system with runs being allocated generous times to be completed in.
I was clearing just over £550 pw then in 1987. That includes London weighting allowance but I can’t remember how much that was back then.
Brewliners were earning slightly more.
Nothing came close after that.
The eu expansions in 2004 and 2007 were the game changer. Prior to this the eu expanded slowly and new entrants were only admitted when their economies came close to matching those of existing members but the expansions of the mid-2000s opened up Western labour markets to workers from countries with basket-case economies. This is what suppressed wages and conversely is the reason they are rising now.
@Judd and Harry. You do both realise that Jeff is a pro-EU remainer? This thread is quickly going turn into Vernon vs Express mk2. Save your energy.
Well, he asked a question so we gave him the answer. It’s difficult to know what else to do.
And we like giving the ‘‘wrong’’ answers 
He asked the question and, having been in the game a long time and seen its ups and downs, gave our genuine replies.
DCPCFML:
So you dont only speak for yourself you speak for me too? Why not set up a board where you have 60 different identities so you can argue with yourself? So you can “win” every argument?
I’ve never been pro-EU to be honest I make my mind up on each particular issue. Its the best way. That way you dont fall victim to garbage because you think it supports your fixed world view.
It reminds me of primary school - I bet you used to go round with your little gang making fun of anyone who thought spandau were better than Duran Duran didnt you? . "Harry listen to this idiot - he likes “To cut a long story short”!!! Everybody knows “Her name is Rio” is far, far better!!! "
Juddian:
And we like giving the ‘‘wrong’’ answersHe asked the question and, having been in the game a long time and seen its ups and downs, gave our genuine replies.
By all means give an answer - I really couldnt give a flying wotsit if you are remainer, remoaner, brexiteer or Nigel Farage - you can learn something from everyone if you open your mind.
Just a quick question - apart from EE labour what else do you think can affect wages? Did the massive financial crash affect wages at all? Or did wages keep going up in other countries affected?
Does anyone know enough economics to take a wider view or is Ee labour as far as your economics knowledge stretches?
I was working in the Co-op, so I’m guessing around 2010-2012, they cut all the agency rates by 50p p/h. They told them, thats the rate now like it or leave. Luckily I was directly employed so didn’t get the cut. Although needless to say our wages stagnated thereafter.
Incidentally, I’m a 3rd career trucker. Not because I was pushed. It was to fulfill a childhood dream, and I became financially secure enough to be able to follow it.
LazyDriver:
I was working in the Co-op, so I’m guessing around 2010-2012, they cut all the agency rates by 50p p/h. They told them, thats the rate now like it or leave. Luckily I was directly employed so didn’t get the cut. Although needless to say our wages stagnated thereafter.
Yeah I went back to the agency about 2010 and the rate had dropped 50 pence and they didnt pay 8 hours min - at one agency anyway.
Just to repeat myself again as I’ve gone through this routine many times before on here, to the point I’m boring myself.
The rot started around 83 84 ish, most decent firms paid time plus half over 40 hours, so you got your 40 in by about wednesday,.and the overtime took care of your top and bottom line.
Hours increased, firms thought they were paying too much, so if you were on say …a fiver an hour (can’t recall the real amount) they conned their drivers by appearing to give them a decent raise…let’s day to 7 50 an hour…, but the clever bit was it did not include premium rate after 40…it was same rate right through,.with absolutely zero intention of carrying on with a yearly pay raise there on after.
Consequently a few years later drivers were making essentially less money than they were before their '‘pay raise’ , and most of us in later years ever saw time and a half again, but instead such crap like time and a pound after 50 hours. 
A brilliant but of strategy by bosses that were far more clever and astute than their gullible dumb assed drivers who could not see beyond 2 quid an hour.
I was not in said category by that time as I had made the stupidest move of my life by becoming an owner driver, then when I made the second most stupidest move of many life by building up a small fleet,.I still paid my drivers overtime rate,.as I’m a big believer that if you treat men well, they reciprocate…ie ‘‘You reap what you sow’’,.a concept not taken in by many firms today. 
(I’m going to screenshot all this crap then I never have to write it again when this subject pops up. : )
JeffA:
DCPCFML:
So you dont only speak for yourself you speak for me too? Why not set up a board where you have 60 DIFFERENT IDENTITIES so you can argue with yourself? So you can “win” every argument?
! "
Try and keep up man…How long have you been on this forum exactly?
,.I reckon he’s achieved that goal already. 
Don’t worry you’ll be joining the rest of us soon on his famous…‘‘Foe list’’.reserved for those who hold different views to him and who stand up to him and his b/s.
My proud claim to fame is that afaik I am the founder member 
…he HATES me in ALL of his identities. a fact that provides me with no end of amusement.
(Btw I was a Spandau man myself,.Duran Duran was for girls…never followed the fashions though thankfully. )
JeffA:
Just a quick question - apart from EE labour what else do you think can affect wages? Did the massive financial crash affect wages at all? Or did wages keep going up in other countries affected?Does anyone know enough economics to take a wider view or is Ee labour as far as your economics knowledge stretches?
Its basic supply and demand.
There are many factors apply to how a job is perceived and remunerated.
The most obvious, and divisive here, is the job unionised, whether you like it or not places with proper unionsed agreements and a decent percentage of members in the workforce always have better terms and conditions, so far.
Does the job involve shifts, again unionised jobs win here because they mostly didn’t let the premium rates for nights weekends bank hols and overtime be absorbed into one across the board rate.
Is the job filthy, hard graft, require strength or particular skills/knowledge, is it specialised or a combination of those things and others, if so it’s usually going to be better paid because so many want an easier life, don’t blame them for that, but i do when they make comments about other sectors who have done well (unions/specailised etc) along the lines of they should all come down to the lowest pay so we can be all be equally crapped on from a great height…we saw this attitude on these very pages over the Hoyer fuel tanker’s pay strike a few years ago, unbelievable the attitudes expressed.
Geography plays a big part, always has but its changing as more desirable areas to live that were once too remote for first homes are now able to be considered as such due to the new working from home policies since the flu scam, once again this penalises the working classes of those areas who couldn’t afford to buy their homes before and that’s now even worse.
Hauliers in more remote areas have generally paid less, up to a point often the staff there could be as well off as other better paid parts of the country, that can still hold true for some parts but not the more scenic or fashionable areas, and it doesn’t matter whether you live in Rugby or a remote border village, all your expensses other than the cost of your house purchase will be similar…again this has always and always will affect the working class.
No of course i’m not an economics whizz kid, been driving bloody wagons for 45 years because i wanted to from a small boy, if i’d wanted financial career i’d have stopped in school for A levels, but i do know what pays well in comparison to effort in wagon world and why.
Its obvious even to a financial dunce like me that the financial crash affected things, it and other greed led directly to the changes in the world of car transporting and my own shift out of it…no regrets mind i’ve found a better job since.
Are you an economics wizard JeffA? could we have your views of why wages have risen and dropped during the terms of all colours of government, and not just since Blue Labour got back in.
Im completely clueless on economics Im afraid Juddian - I do know an economics professor tho so I must ask him sometime.
All I can say is " I know this much is True…ah ah aahh ah… "
JeffA:
Im completely clueless on economics Im afraid Juddian - I do know an economics professor tho so I must ask him sometime.All I can say is " I know this much is True…ah ah aahh ah… "
It’s at the stage nowadays with wages that if we want better pay we have to Fight for ourselves to get some kind of Lifeline.
JeffA:
Just curious as to when wages started falling in hgv driving? When I started in 2007 the agency rate was 6.50 an hour which was either minimum wage or 50 pence above min wage. Since then its gone up maybe 50 pence every 2 years.
Perhaps the Agency was paying what they thought you where worth,because I was getting close to that in 1990/2
I found some wage slips the other week from 96/97 when I was doing agency work for the main supermarkets in the Bristol area
£5.60 hr seemed to about the going rate, but it could be up to £7 hr if you went to Magor for Tesco. They also paid your bridge toll ! They couldn’t get drivers, so nothing new there then