Evening all, I’m a newbie on here. I came across the forum whilst looking for some info, liked it and decided to stay!!
Last week we had a driver lose a double drive on an eight wheeler. Directors of the company want to take him to a disciplinary (expected and probably warranted) but my question is this :- how long do wheels take to fall off after the nuts have come slack?
I ask as the driver claims he checked them before he left in the morning (6am ish) and they fell off at about 10 in the morning.
The question is could they be visibly tight (no arrow markers) and fall off so quickly?
What systems and procedures do you as a company have in place to ensure this sort of dos’nt happen its not all down to the driver,is there an “audit trail” that demonstrates your company & directors are squeaky clean,if VOSA get involved this is what they look for
I lost a wheel on the drive axle a long time ago. I went across the motorway to retrieve it, The me and another driver put it back on before plod turned up.
Luckily i wasn’t far from a 24/7 Daf dealer. They got a new set of studs and a new wheel, So i was back up and running the following morning. The boss was ok with it, But i got a bit of stick from the lads and i was prety annoyed with myself, So i got the studs checked. It turned out that they were the wrong studs. It didn’t matter how tight i tightened the nuts, They would never fully tighten the wheel.
As a result of me doing my homework, The boss got Daf to change the drive axle studs on the whole fleet.
Dig out the completed daily driver’s defect report for the day in question which clearly shows he has signed the vehicle off as “Nil Defects” and he’s in the clear.
If it doesn’t exist then he and the company are potentially in the ■■■. It is the company’s responsibility to put a defect reporting system in place that includes ‘nil defects noted’ and to ensure that drivers follow the procedure.
It is the driver’s responsibility to follow that procedure.
The company CPC holder should know this and ensure that the system is observed. If he doesn’t, then he shouldn’t be in the job.
This is yet another case where it pays to be in a Union. If this ends up in a dismissal which is arguably unfair, then thanks to the Blue Party the driver will have to stump up a court fee and risk paying costs if he loses. This was not the case 12 months ago. Most Unions will fund an unfair dismissal hearing.
Wheels were all off 2 weeks preciously. Fitted with a full set of rubber prior to MOT. Nuts torqued last thing at night. Nuts torqued at 8 am next morning after 88km. Into Scania for pre MOT check 2 days later then MOT’d. 10 days later wheel drops off.
We do a toolbox talk about how to fit wheels and what the company policy is. Drivers then sign a form to say that s/he will follow out the instructions.
First thing that was looked at when we went to rescue the truck was his defect sheet. All OK. Asked other drivers if they saw him doing his walk round inspection and he appears to have. He shows 12 minutes on the tachograph prior to driving.
I was tasked with doing a thorough investigation to discipline him but the more I read and the more people I speak to the less I can see a case against him. Which I’m quite happy about. Things are going to have to change though. There was loose paint on one of the wheels and on investigation the guy who repairs punctures sandblasted a load of wheels a while back and painted them. He couldn’t say how thick the paint was. He’s not even been trained to spray paint. I have also found out that the torque wrench hasn’t been calibrated (3 years old) so who is to say that the nuts were ever tight enough? It’s a shame that something so potentially dangerous has to happen before we (as human beings) think to operate as safely as possible.
the_sejects_pal:
Thanks for all your prompt replys.
Wheels were all off 2 weeks preciously. Fitted with a full set of rubber prior to MOT. Nuts torqued last thing at night. Nuts torqued at 8 am next morning after 88km. Into Scania for pre MOT check 2 days later then MOT’d. 10 days later wheel drops off.
We do a toolbox talk about how to fit wheels and what the company policy is. Drivers then sign a form to say that s/he will follow out the instructions.
First thing that was looked at when we went to rescue the truck was his defect sheet. All OK. Asked other drivers if they saw him doing his walk round inspection and he appears to have. He shows 12 minutes on the tachograph prior to driving.
I was tasked with doing a thorough investigation to discipline him but the more I read and the more people I speak to the less I can see a case against him. Which I’m quite happy about. Things are going to have to change though. There was loose paint on one of the wheels and on investigation the guy who repairs punctures sandblasted a load of wheels a while back and painted them. He couldn’t say how thick the paint was. He’s not even been trained to spray paint. I have also found out that the torque wrench hasn’t been calibrated (3 years old) so who is to say that the nuts were ever tight enough? It’s a shame that something so potentially dangerous has to happen before we (as human beings) think to operate as safely as possible.
So it a not guilty verdict as he has done everything possible with the available tools, and the company have not, so can the company please learn from this and fit marker arrows.
■■■■ sight cheaper than loosing another set of wheels to my mind and takes away any doubts as to loose or not on the morning checks or when anyone looks for that matter.
trained to spray paint ffs, looks like you want someone to blame to me!
these days defect sheets are made to much of, by that I mean when I drive my truck I have a quick look round in the morning, then at various point during the day when stopped/loading/unloading I will check things like wheelnuts, how hot the hubs are running, listen for air leeks, keep an eye on the tyres and general condition of the vehicle
just because a daily check sheet has been done first thing in the morning is no indication that the condition of the vehicle will remain the same all day, as far as I am aware things go wrong/wear out during operation, apart from minor things general wear and tear wont take place whilst the vehicle is parked in the yard!
as pointed out above marker arrows/nut cover indicators are a good and cheap idea!
don’t even get me started on “toolbox talk” yes man talk just like blue sky thinking!
I doubt the uncalibrated torque wrench will be behind it, much more likely the paint. If they do something daft like keep it wound up and using it for willy-nilly random wheel nut checks by drivers it probably will need calibrating though.
The obsession with torquing it a bit of a red herring it will be the paint as mentioned. If you’re going to paint them best to do it with the wheels on really.
The painted mating surfaces on the wheels are definitely the problem here. Years ago when I worked for a main dealer we had a run of wheels coming loose after a new spray shop we started using had painted the mating surfaces.
For my 2p worth I’ll agree with everyone else - the paint on the wheels is the likely culprit.
I would suggest you also invest in a set of wheel nut pointers for every vehicle on the fleet, that way a driver can tell at a glance whilst doing his daily checks if a nut is starting to come loose.
repton:
For my 2p worth I’ll agree with everyone else - the paint on the wheels is the likely culprit.
I would suggest you also invest in a set of wheel nut pointers for every vehicle on the fleet, that way a driver can tell at a glance whilst doing his daily checks if a nut is starting to come loose.
Paul
I’ve blasted,painted and fitted loads of wheels without a problem, the thing is even with paint on the mating surfaces the wheels don’t just fall off, they come slightly loose first &need checking more often until they stay tight!
you can’t blame the paint only, the tool giving the “toolbox talk” has not instructed the driver to check the wheels more often as they have been painted!
the fact is the wheels were not checked during the working day and as a result came lose and fell off, this just shows how critical a 15 minute only walk round check is at the start of the day
Has this driver been trained to use the torque wrench (i’m serious here cos the union if he has one will soon inform you) and is it available during his pre shift checks in order to check the nuts, is he given sufficent paid pre check time say 30 minutes on top of the usual 15 mins minimum for checking the wheel nuts alone?
Lastly is the vehicle fitted with wheel nut pointers and is there a proper system of wheel torque notifications in place for the company to monitor such things, including wheels needing retorque being fitted with red pointers until retorqued correctly.
Almost all these instances could be avoided if wheel nut pointers are used, yes they look a bit daft in the eyes of some, but a lot prettier than the aftermath of a lost wheel bowling down a street at 40mph, and the sight of the VOSA vans and Galaxies entering the operating centre for a full inspection.
Juddian:
Almost all these instances could be avoided if wheel nut pointers are used, yes they look a bit daft in the eyes of some, but a lot prettier than the aftermath of a lost wheel bowling down a street at 40mph, and the sight of the VOSA vans and Galaxies entering the operating centre for a full inspection.
That was my thinking when I put them on my wagon. I had a couple of wheels nuts come loose, thankfully they were spotted before anything bad happened, but that was enough to get me to buy a set. They do look a bit daft but that’s a small price to pay IMO.
I agree with the fact that the wheels were painted could loosen them, unless you know how many microns the untrained sprayer put on.
Honestly though. I started painting wheels and chassis in 1974 and I had a plywood disk that sat on the rim and a piece of galvanised tin that sat on the tyres to prevent overspray. It was made out of an old Castrol sign
