richgriff:
Sorry Marky. Had a Borderer with a 240, tend to get a little excited and misty eyed when talking about the old Atki Defender
marky:
richgriff:
Having spoken to my father at great length as to reliability,durability,economy,value for money whilst in service.He maintains (having run a mixed variety of lorries through the years) this Atkinson Borderer swb eight wheeler would take some beating.180 Gardner,did a million miles.David Brown six speed and DD Kirkstall.I think Bewick would agree,the driver was also the key.This one only had one driver in its lifetime and stood testimony to how good he was.Typically,once the product is right they go and produce the 400 series,now thats another story.
Thatâd be a Defender, but the rest sounds right - same wagon apart from a soluble cab (400-series)
Hi Rich,
Charlie Philpotts my old boss at Kington had a new Atkinson eight leg tipper just after you had yours,it was on a L plate,only remember because I bought a new 1600L Cortina off him at the same time.
Cheers Dave.
richgriff:
Sorry Marky. Had a Borderer with a 240, tend to get a little excited and misty eyed when talking about the old Atki Defender
marky:
richgriff:
Having spoken to my father at great length as to reliability,durability,economy,value for money whilst in service.He maintains (having run a mixed variety of lorries through the years) this Atkinson Borderer swb eight wheeler would take some beating.180 Gardner,did a million miles.David Brown six speed and DD Kirkstall.I think Bewick would agree,the driver was also the key.This one only had one driver in its lifetime and stood testimony to how good he was.Typically,once the product is right they go and produce the 400 series,now thats another story.
Thatâd be a Defender, but the rest sounds right - same wagon apart from a soluble cab (400-series)
No worries Rich - itâs been a while since I last saw you; probably at Tabley around 5-6 years ago when you brought your Borderer. We were slumming-it in a Tautliner after the step-frame didnât get tested in time. Happy daysâŚ
richgriff:
Having spoken to my father at great length as to reliability,durability,economy,value for money whilst in service.He maintains (having run a mixed variety of lorries through the years) this Atkinson Borderer swb eight wheeler would take some beating.180 Gardner,did a million miles.David Brown six speed and DD Kirkstall.I think Bewick would agree,the driver was also the key.This one only had one driver in it`s lifetime and stood testimony to how good he was.
This motor had only one driver in its entire working life (March 1967 to December 1980) and still has, not only its original 6LXB, DB 6-speed and Kirkstall axle, but also the Hardy Spicer couplings on the propshaft! The engine and gearbox were overhauled once, and I think the clutch was replaced once too. Appropriate, I think, to include the man himself on the photo, the late John Hemelryk, who retired rather than have a new lorry. By this time, his Mk.1 âSilver Knightâ (âMy Friendâ was how he always referred to it) had already outlived all the Mk.2s and 400 Series in the working fleet!
Their paths crossed for the last time at his funeral in London in January 1993. That day, I drove it from Preston to Kensal Green for his funeral, on to Paddington for the wake, and then back home again. The fuel consumption for the round trip was 18.5 mpg, and I left Paddington at 1655 to come home, arriving in Preston exactly 5 hours later.
richgriff:
Having spoken to my father at great length as to reliability,durability,economy,value for money whilst in service.He maintains (having run a mixed variety of lorries through the years) this Atkinson Borderer swb eight wheeler would take some beating.180 Gardner,did a million miles.David Brown six speed and DD Kirkstall.I think Bewick would agree,the driver was also the key.This one only had one driver in it`s lifetime and stood testimony to how good he was.
This motor had only one driver in its entire working life (March 1967 to December 1980) and still has, not only its original 6LXB, DB 6-speed and Kirkstall axle, but also the Hardy Spicer couplings on the propshaft! The engine and gearbox were overhauled once, and I think the clutch was replaced once too. Appropriate, I think, to include the man himself on the photo, the late John Hemelryk, who retired rather than have a new lorry. By this time, his Mk.1 âSilver Knightâ (âMy Friendâ was how he always referred to it) had already outlived all the Mk.2s and 400 Series in the working fleet!
Their paths crossed for the last time at his funeral in London in January 1993. That day, I drove it from Preston to Kensal Green for his funeral, on to Paddington for the wake, and then back home again. The fuel consumption for the round trip was 18.5 mpg, and I left Paddington at 1655 to come home, arriving in Preston exactly 5 hours later.
hiya,
Sorry to say but i did a few days with 47 whilst John was having hospital tests i think, or it might have been a bereavement, and also another driver Don Smith did a day or so on it running out of MATs Barking, we both remarked that it was a hard days work at that time our instructions was just make sure the derv, oil and water are OK but leave the cleaning to him, i went down on Sunday as a passenger ready for the Monday start.
thanks harry long retired.
harry_gill:
hiya,
Sorry to say but i did a few days with 47 whilst John was having hospital tests i think, or it might have been a bereavement, and also another driver Don Smith did a day or so on it running out of MATs Barking, we both remarked that it was a hard days work at that time our instructions was just make sure the derv, oil and water are OK but leave the cleaning to him, i went down on Sunday as a passenger ready for the Monday start.
thanks harry long retired.
I think he was allowed a few days off in almost 14 years, Harry! Nonetheless, it was always his motor. I think John usually had holidays at MOT time too. He used to do a lot of the basic servicing himself, next to his boat at Paddington.
yes i am afraid it is untreatable , i enjoy reading you post though as you seem to be clued up and unbiased (which is more than you can say for me) i hate anything with a plastic cab and an engine that took so long to die down between gears that you could walk round while you were waiting .keep up the good work
LB76:
there is one answer to this and that is âNothingâ- heaps of fibreglass crap.
It would appear that you have a âpathological hatredâ for Atkis which I believe is untreatable now!!! I only speak as a find and Bewick Transport had many '000s of miles of exemplary service from the famous marque.I accept that some of the various specs of the individual tractors were not always ideal IMO but the reliability of the Atkis was never less than we required of them! Cheers Dennis.
LB76:
yes i am afraid it is untreatable , i enjoy reading you post though as you seem to be clued up and unbiased (which is more than you can say for me) i hate anything with a plastic cab and an engine that took so long to die down between gears that you could walk round while you were waiting .keep up the good work
Good ole Bill - you keep em coming.
We really enjoy reading your educated and informative posts on this thread too!.
ERF:
Good ole Bill - you keep em coming.
We really enjoy reading your educated and informative posts on this thread too!.
Indeed! And if itâs any consolation for Mr LB76, Bill Bowkerâs recollection of his first encounter with an LB76 (Bowker had some E-reg ones) was that he saw one belonging to British Ropes, then came back to Blackburn and said, âGentlemen, I have just seen the finest lorry that money can buy.â
And so it was that they started running day cab LB76s to Italy and elsewhere.
Looking at some of the posts on here ,couldn`t you spec what you wanted when you ordered a waggon.I see Dennis didnt like the Seddon axle and the DB box so order a fuller box and a kirkstall axle (were rockwell about then?).Or was it the old british waggon industry mentality of you get what we want to sell you.
240 Gardner:
âŚAnd if itâs any consolation for Mr LB76, Bill Bowkerâs recollection of his first encounter with an LB76 (Bowker had some E-reg ones) was that he saw one belonging to British Ropes, then came back to Blackburn and said, "Gentlemen, I have just seen the finest lorry that money can buyâŚ
The Scania Vabis LB76 as a tractor unit was a good truck of its day. The rigids eventually got there. We built a batch of tipper bodies and fitted them to Scania Vabis 6 wheel chassis in 1965, and every one came back in after just a few months with rear suspension component failure. They were all for a fleet that were replacing five year old AEC Mammoth Major MkV 6 wheelers, and the new trucks failure was a huge embarrassment to Scania.
They sent a senior engineering manager over from Sweden for a meeting in our yard with the owner of the new fleet whilst four of his failed vehicles were awaiting repair. The Swedish chap was a true professional, spoke better English than we did and inspected the trucks in his nice suit with no overalls!. He could not understand why these vehicles were failing here in England with no similar problems reported in Europe. We went through weight distribution and individual axle loadings and came to the conclusion that the welded aluminium tipper bodies we had pioneered here were substantially lighter than the steel or wooden bodies these chassis were used to in Europe, meaning the body could be physically longer. We had a front recess for the tipper ram bringing the headboard right up to the back of the cab and we positioned the rear tipper hinge bar a little way back from the rear spring hanger brackets as was common practice here, but in Europe they seemed to be more comfortable mounting the hinge over the top of the hanger brackets. Our installation imposed a greater load on the rear bogie whilst tipping with a full load, and it was this load that was causing the failures.
The man from Scania scratched his head and could not come up with a solution other than shortening the body and moving the hinge bar forwards to where it was more acceptable to the chassis design. On hearing this the operator went berserk â saying that he could not operate these trucks commercially with a shorter body, and that he wished he had bought new AECâs as these had never given a problem at this wheelbase and rear hinge position. The Scania man was genuinely most upset, and asked him if it would be possible to make a rear bogie and chassis section from one of his old AECâs available for testing at Scania. This was done, and the rear end of an old Mammoth Major 6 was shipped by road to Sweden at Scaniaâs expense. Within one week, a team of Swedish engineers were back in the yard with a kit of parts to modify all the Scania chassis. These chassis and all those that followed from Scania didnât physically look much like AECâs design, but they never gave the same problem again. I must say a similar chassis problem occurred on the new Ergomatic Leyland Octopus, and it took Leyland months and months and months to even listen, let alone modify the design.
ramone:
Looking at some of the posts on here ,couldn`t you spec what you wanted when you ordered a waggon.I see Dennis didnt like the Seddon axle and the DB box so order a fuller box and a kirkstall axle (were rockwell about then?).Or was it the old british waggon industry mentality of you get what we want to sell you.
The Atkinson concept was that vehicles were built to order - indeed there was a waiting list of something ike two years in the late 1960s, depending upon the spec. However, under Seddon ownership, things began to change - Dennis has already alluded to the axle. As market demand fell (partly due to increased supply from imports, and partly due to the prevailing economic conditions) and, of course, all investment was going into the new 400 Series and subsequent models, vehicles were being built for stock in the latter days of the Mk.2. Seddon did override customer orders, and there were instances of completed vehicles not being as ordered. But how reliable was component supply at that time?
In the case of a local owner-driver I knew, Atkinson staff warned him to check up on his motor in build, to make sure he got the Kirkstall axle he had ordered, which he did. Perhaps Seddon calculated that an O/D wasnât going to decline an 8LXB-engined Borderer (Gardner still had a waiting list then) just because it had a Seddon drive axle? I imagine that Suttonâs and others were treated rather differently!
the type of work we were on at Diss was a little heavy and we managed to break several AECâs but never did bust a LB76 or any other Swedish lorry for that matter
richgriff:
Having spoken to my father at great length as to reliability,durability,economy,value for money whilst in service.He maintains (having run a mixed variety of lorries through the years) this Atkinson Borderer swb eight wheeler would take some beating.180 Gardner,did a million miles.David Brown six speed and DD Kirkstall.I think Bewick would agree,the driver was also the key.This one only had one driver in it`s lifetime and stood testimony to how good he was.
This motor had only one driver in its entire working life (March 1967 to December 1980) and still has, not only its original 6LXB, DB 6-speed and Kirkstall axle, but also the Hardy Spicer couplings on the propshaft! The engine and gearbox were overhauled once, and I think the clutch was replaced once too. Appropriate, I think, to include the man himself on the photo, the late John Hemelryk, who retired rather than have a new lorry. By this time, his Mk.1 âSilver Knightâ (âMy Friendâ was how he always referred to it) had already outlived all the Mk.2s and 400 Series in the working fleet!
Their paths crossed for the last time at his funeral in London in January 1993. That day, I drove it from Preston to Kensal Green for his funeral, on to Paddington for the wake, and then back home again. The fuel consumption for the round trip was 18.5 mpg, and I left Paddington at 1655 to come home, arriving in Preston exactly 5 hours later.
What a memory this pic brings back.I only had the pleasure of meeting john and friend once it was on walton st lorry park hull in the early 90s.What a character he was a real gent to talk to and 47 was spotless all the brass on the engine polished. it was an expereance ill never forget.
regards dave.
ramone:
Looking at some of the posts on here ,couldn`t you spec what you wanted when you ordered a waggon.I see Dennis didnt like the Seddon axle and the DB box so order a fuller box and a kirkstall axle (were rockwell about then?).Or was it the old british waggon industry mentality of you get what we want to sell you.
I started 1970 with 3 motors and ended 1979 with probably 43! It was impossible to plan forward orders during this period for a number of reasons,in particular during the time between '71 and late '75 which was the time that the Borderers were entering the fleet.Apart from our first 3 new ones which I bought from the Atki dealer in Penrith(Atkis even omitted ZF P/steering on the 3rd one!)I found that the best way to expand as required by our growing customer list was via the services of a good pal who was also a dealer ,in both new and 2nd hand motors,and who was well respected and known nationwide.During the time Iâm talking about was also a period of rampant inflation(one year clocked up 25%)and I well remember in late '73 paying LIST price plus ÂŁ250 cash to âseal the dealâ and this for what must be the worst spec immaginable Cu220/DB6spd/Group axle and NO P/steering!! But the Atkis were in short supply so in the main the only ex stockers were the basic spec chassis.Along with the new Borderers that entered service at Bewick Transport there were a number of good quality 2nd hand ones as well of various specs,I was always given first chance of anything that my pal thought was up to the standard I looked for!!To a lesser extent the same principles applied to the new and secondhand ERFs,Guyâs and Seddons that we aquired.But in the main the Atkinson build specs IMO were just "thrown together"with whatever was available on the track the day a particular chassis was passing along! Obviously someone like Alf Sutton who was well established and could place regular and substantial orders on the Factory could get exactly what he wanted but for a little up-start operator like Bewick Transport it was a âdifferent go to workâ and quite right ,of course!!Dennis.
Only ever had two motors with the Rockwell axle and they were two new Sed/Atk 401s in '84 and they were built at a time when International Harvester owned Sed/Atks so I assume it was the American influence on the build! The engines were 8LXCs and the G/Box was Fuller9509.Decent tractors all the same1 Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
.But in the main the Atkinson build specs IMO were just "thrown together"with whatever was available on the track the day a particular chassis was passing along! Obviously someone like Alf Sutton who was well established and could place regular and substantial orders on the Factory could get exactly what he wanted but for a little up-start operator like Bewick Transport it was a âdifferent go to workâ and quite right ,of course!!Dennis.
Component supply was far from reliable in those times too - times of industrial unrest, 3-day weeks, etc - so maybe your ZF steering components were stuck in a dock strike somewhere!
Never realised how difficult it was then ,we had the Volvo rep in last year and he got his laptop out and worked out the best engine , gearbox and axle ratio we should order it simulated the weights we carry the type of trailer and what mpg we would get when the speed limiter was set at different speeds ,we ended up with 5 scania 400s with the G cab.The newer they get the worse they perform.I`d still like to try a Marathon with the TL12 in see how long it would last
they were crap mate.i had quite a few in my early days and they were rubbish for the driver. bosses loved em tho especially with the gardener engine.my first one was a 150 D reg and it had a splitter gearbox and did 46mph flat out.reliable and economical though. ERF was a much better wagon in my view.in 1973 i had a brand new Borderer with the 180 gardener and the david brown 6 speed gearbox.the windsreen had moved before it was painted.it leaked like hell when it rained and my boss[Richard Raymond of Vale transport southwales]wasnt bothered.they kept on going forever without breakdown and the employers loved them.his brother john had lots of them.i thought they were crap as i said.the seddon atki was better but still not as good as other motors at the time.i changed firms and went back from L reg to E reg but it was a Volvo F86 and was far superior to the new atki in pulling power,comfort and ride.some one actually told me when i was collecting a new unit from their factory at walton-le-dale that they were built around the driver.what a â â â â â â â â â ,he obviously hadnt driven one for any lenght of time.Adrian.
Bewick:
.But in the main the Atkinson build specs IMO were just "thrown together"with whatever was available on the track the day a particular chassis was passing along! Obviously someone like Alf Sutton who was well established and could place regular and substantial orders on the Factory could get exactly what he wanted but for a little up-start operator like Bewick Transport it was a âdifferent go to workâ and quite right ,of course!!Dennis.
Component supply was far from reliable in those times too - times of industrial unrest, 3-day weeks, etc - so maybe your ZF steering components were stuck in a dock strike somewhere!
Hiya Chris,the excuse I was given at the time by Scotts manager Ian Fowler was that there had been a fire at the ZF factory in W. Germany,if Iâd had the 'Tthinternet at that time in '72 I could probably have found out differently!But I also agree with you that the industrial relations landscape was a lot different then and diruption in the supply chain was accepted as part and parcel of everyday working life! Cheers Dennis.
