I drove a few Ivecos with the 13 speed fuller i always liked em
These two 401s gave us good service Gardner 265/Fuller9509/Rockwell axle.fleet names “Crest of the Wave” and “Lucky Touch” 
ramone:
I drove a few Ivecos with the 13 speed fuller i always liked em
Never saw a gearbox to match the 13 speed Fuller…Bombproof in a word…gave a lovely gearchange as well when installed correctly
Not much wrong with Atkinson’s, they were a strong and reliable workhorse and many many operators earned a good crust with them.
Suttons Tony:
…The ERF’s always had design faults IMO i.e weak chassis ( Bristol 8 wheeler chassis was based on the ERF and as good as the Bristol was that chassis did used to creak and groan as did the ERF and then they started fitting nylon bushes on the steering of the LV models which led to a few crashes…
I would be interested to hear if anyone else has heard of this?. The Bristol 8x4 chassis frame was a BRS design and even in the early days considered too weak for tipper applications without subframing. The very first all welded aluminium tipper body in the UK was fitted to a standard tipper spec 6 wheel ERF KV chassis in 1960 (delivered to Coote & Warren via Sellers & Batty), and many hundreds of ERF KV’s and LV’s followed it through the 60’s and 70’s with less than a dozen chassis component failures on ERF (to 1975). I must add the statistics were very similar for Atkinson, Scammell, Foden and AEC (who started using higher tensile steel to reduce chassis rail thickness and therefore weight) for the same period by the way, and this similar trend of failures continued on MAN, Volvo, Scania etc. Leyland chassis failures were a little more common in the late 60’s and 70’s, but not by much.
I have also not heard of the nylon bush issue in the steering system of the LV. In this period ERF bought in the steering boxes - usually from Burman who also supplied many other manufacturers, as did Kirkstall Forge who supplied the axles. We have all racked our brains here (whats left of them!), and just cannot recall nylon bush issues on the LV’s.
Riverstick:
ramone:
I drove a few Ivecos with the 13 speed fuller i always liked emNever saw a gearbox to match the 13 speed Fuller…Bombproof in a word…gave a lovely gearchange as well when installed correctly
I could not agree with you more! The 13 speed fuller is a proper drivers gearbox,we run them in C,E,EC,ERFs and theres nothing to touch them.Had a new ECX with a 16 speed syncro in ,what a disaster it was after years of a fuller.Ripped it out and fitted a Fuller rto 15613 in behind a 14lt ■■■■■■■ and what a difference it has made.we ran a few atkis in the past but they were no match for an ERF. The cabs frames wouldnt last half a long as ERFs and the brakes couldnt compare,the radiators were too small and the suspenstion couldnt match the A series for ride quality.oh and they couldnt even get the steering wheel in the correct position!
ERFECX:
Riverstick:
ramone:
I drove a few Ivecos with the 13 speed fuller i always liked emNever saw a gearbox to match the 13 speed Fuller…Bombproof in a word…gave a lovely gearchange as well when installed correctly
I could not agree with you more! The 13 speed fuller is a proper drivers gearbox,we run them in C,E,EC,ERFs and theres nothing to touch them.Had a new ECX with a 16 speed syncro in ,what a disaster it was after years of a fuller.Ripped it out and fitted a Fuller rto 15613 in behind a 14lt ■■■■■■■ and what a difference it has made.we ran a few atkis in the past but they were no match for an ERF. The cabs frames wouldnt last half a long as ERFs and the brakes couldnt compare,the radiators were too small and the suspenstion couldnt match the A series for ride quality.oh and they couldnt even get the steering wheel in the correct position!
Not keen on em then?
The Bristol 8 wheel chassis was based on the ERF chassis at that time (early 50’s ) look at Bristols History they make no secret of this as it was felt to be the lightest and best chassis about ( note LIGHTEST AND BEST combination). I worked later with some of the many Drivers who were on the BRS at the time the Bristol was being designed and there input was asked for and in my opinion this input made the Bristol one of the best driving machines of that period although IMO I would have fitted the AEC engine in preference to the Leyland engine. Nylon bushes? Inter-City Transport Bought 2 new units, their first ERF’s before they were a year old one had veered of the road killing the driver due to the reported nylon bushes on the steering it subsequently came to light that this was not the first time this had happened in Scotland with fairly new ERF’s the second Inter-City unit was modified…Tony.
Riverstick:
ramone:
I drove a few Ivecos with the 13 speed fuller i always liked emNever saw a gearbox to match the 13 speed Fuller…Bombproof in a word…gave a lovely gearchange as well when installed correctly
Add my name to this, my first taste of a 13 speed Fuller was in 1980 in a 3 yr old 2800DKS Daf, later in Iveco Turbostars.
Ross.
Suttons Tony:
The Bristol 8 wheel chassis was based on the ERF chassis at that time (early 50’s ) look at Bristols History they make no secret of this as it was felt to be the lightest and best chassis about ( note LIGHTEST AND BEST combination). I worked later with some of the many Drivers who were on the BRS at the time the Bristol was being designed and there input was asked for and in my opinion this input made the Bristol one of the best driving machines of that period although IMO I would have fitted the AEC engine in preference to the Leyland engine. Nylon bushes? Inter-City Transport Bought 2 new units, their first ERF’s before they were a year old one had veered of the road killing the driver due to the reported nylon bushes on the steering it subsequently came to light that this was not the first time this had happened in Scotland with fairly new ERF’s the second Inter-City unit was modified…Tony.
Thanks for replying Tony. I will have to bow to your knowledge on the early 50’s Bristol chassis. I have not heard this said before, and can only say there are some fundamental differences between the two when you get to the late 50’s, and we could not fit tipper bodies on to the Bristol chassis without some quite major mods, so we only did very few (probably less than 4), but we fitted hundreds to standard ERF’s.
Nylon bushes. I have looked into this in some depth now, and still can’t find anything out about nylon bushes. The two Inter-City vehicles you mention were supplied in 1964. Both units were fitted with standard Marles steering gear, non power assisted, as were hundreds of other KV and LV ERF’s. However, there were other steering issues with these very early LV units. As the photo I have attached below shows, they were the shortest wheelbase tractor units that ERF had ever built at just 7’ 10" WB, which gave a rather square footprint (ie track the same as wheelbase). This was done mainly to accommodate the LV cab, with it’s access steps built into the cab in front of the wheel, necessitating the front axle to be ‘set back’ in the chassis by 12 inches. ERF had never built a tractor unit with a ‘set back’ axle before the LV (someone tell Corgi toys), the KV was always a ‘cab over axle’ design on units and they had a 12" longer wheelbase. In all other respects, the KV and LV were mechanically identical at this time, and the KV cab stayed in production alongside the LV until 1966. This very short wheelbase on the LV led to several things, it gave an excellent turning circle and a very compact unit, but under heavy tractive drive loads weight would lift from the front axle, lowering the steering force of the front wheels. Also, in these early days of simple braking systems before drive axle load sensing valves, any locking of the tractor drive axle wheels under heavy braking could lead to a very quick jacknife. From late 1964 most ERF units had a modified version of the LV cab called the 2LV. These were a ‘cab over axle’ design and allowed a 12" longer wheelbase, although cab access was back to the KV climbing up and in method. When the forward entry cab appeared again on tractors in 1965 it had open steps and short doors, and these units were eventually lengthened further to a 9’ 6" wheelbase. It has to be remembered that ERF didn’t get into fitting steering bushes, nylon or otherwise. They simply fitted steering gear that was built up by an outside supplier to their chassis. If nylon bushes were used, it would have been Marles that instigated it, and it would have affected every chassis builder that fitted Marles steering gear. I hope there is someone that can remember this nylon bush issue and shed some light on it.
Well put ERFthis is what we need more of on the thread----good technical explanation! excellent! Why did ERF fit the Fuller 609 gearbox in the A series as opposed to the 610 as per Atkinson Borderers,was it a cost saving excercise? and why was the Kirkstall HR 1st choice in-stead of the much simpler,IMO,the Eaton single reduction axle.I re-call the last 3 C38 ERFs I ordered at Bewick Transport in 82’ I speccd with Eaton axles.I can’t re-call if there was any price difference between the axles,probably not!We used to often referr to ERFs as Erfkinsons which I suppose would be looked on as an insult at Sandbach!! How did ERF manage to break the strangle hold of Atkis at Suttons,and what was the story behind the switch? Cheers Bewick.
The thing that i hated on the mk 1 and mk 2 Atkinson’s was the hand brake that little
black knob that was held on to the spindle with the metal collar.
When it came loose and would slip off and you would try and cut your wrist open with the metal shaft
and it used to nack well it did me :twisted 
i used to keep spare ones in central stores and fit new ones with a bit of bearing fit worked a treat.
8LXBV8BRIAN:
The thing that i hated on the mk 1 and mk 2 Atkinson’s was the hand brake that little
black knob that was held on to the spindle with the metal collar.
Lock actuator control valve…
3/8 splindle with a thin crinkley stainless collar holding the ball on.
Oh yes, I remember them well. The AEC V8 had the same thing too.
I used to thread the shaft at 3/8 UNC and screw a tractor gear ball on!.
ERF:
8LXBV8BRIAN:
The thing that i hated on the mk 1 and mk 2 Atkinson’s was the hand brake that little
black knob that was held on to the spindle with the metal collar.Lock actuator control valve…
3/8 splindle with a thin crinkley stainless collar holding the ball on.
Oh yes, I remember them well. The AEC V8 had the same thing too.
I used to thread the shaft at 3/8 UNC and screw a tractor gear ball on!.
Do I remember rightly that the S80/S83 Foden had the same valve?
there is one answer to this and that is “Nothing”- heaps of fibreglass crap.
LB76:
there is one answer to this and that is “Nothing”- heaps of fibreglass crap.
It would appear that you have a “pathological hatred” for Atkis which I believe is untreatable now!!! I only speak as a find and Bewick Transport had many '000s of miles of exemplary service from the famous marque.I accept that some of the various specs of the individual tractors were not always ideal IMO but the reliability of the Atkis was never less than we required of them! Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
LB76:
there is one answer to this and that is “Nothing”- heaps of fibreglass crap.It would appear that you have a “pathological hatred” for Atkis which I believe is untreatable now!!! I only speak as a find and Bewick Transport had many '000s of miles of exemplary service from the famous marque.I accept that some of the various specs of the individual tractors were not always ideal IMO but the reliability of the Atkis was never less than we required of them! Cheers Dennis.
I think its all about opinions and taste Dennis ,ive mentioned before my dad came off a 59 mammoth major top speed 38 mph that hed driven for 10 years and got a brand new Atki and he wasnt a fan.He moved to Harold Woods and eventually got a new A Series ERF and liked it.Then he went elsewhere and backwards to a Mandator but prefered it to the Atki then a F86 then the best of all a Marathon with a 290 ■■■■■■■■■■ youve had such good service from them then theres no reason to knock em,i think theyre a love or hate motor.I see Stobarts got 1 preserved on his website with a 240 Gardner in it…word as it that the engine wasn`t the original 1,apparently it came out of a Big J !!!
ramone:
Bewick:
LB76:
there is one answer to this and that is “Nothing”- heaps of fibreglass crap.It would appear that you have a “pathological hatred” for Atkis which I believe is untreatable now!!! I only speak as a find and Bewick Transport had many '000s of miles of exemplary service from the famous marque.I accept that some of the various specs of the individual tractors were not always ideal IMO but the reliability of the Atkis was never less than we required of them! Cheers Dennis.
I think its all about opinions and taste Dennis ,i
ve mentioned before my dad came off a59 mammoth major top speed 38 mph that hed driven for 10 years and got a brand new Atki and he wasnt a fan.He moved to Harold Woods and eventually got a new A Series ERF and liked it.Then he went elsewhere and backwards to a Mandator but prefered it to the Atki then a F86 then the best of all a Marathon with a 290 ■■■■■■■■■■ youve had such good service from them then theres no reason to knock em,i think theyre a love or hate motor.I see Stobarts got 1 preserved on his website with a 240 Gardner in it…word as it that the engine wasn`t the original 1,apparently it came out of a Big J !!!
So thats where the Big J 8cyl engine went,I’d better tell Renegade then!! Although we didn’t run anywhere near as many ERFs as ATKs the ERFs were OK and at least they were fairly consistant with their specs Fuller 609s/9509s and Kirkstall HR axles(and Eaton to order!) as well as ZF power steering.It could also be argued that the ERF braking system was superior to the Atkis,but I would still plump for the Bamber Bridge built motor.Interesting thread though,Cheers Dennis.
Having spoken to my father at great length as to reliability,durability,economy,value for money whilst in service.He maintains (having run a mixed variety of lorries through the years) this Atkinson Borderer swb eight wheeler would take some beating.180 Gardner,did a million miles.David Brown six speed and DD Kirkstall.I think Bewick would agree,the driver was also the key.This one only had one driver in its lifetime and stood testimony to how good he was.Typically,once the product is right they go and produce the 400 series,now thats another story.
richgriff:
Having spoken to my father at great length as to reliability,durability,economy,value for money whilst in service.He maintains (having run a mixed variety of lorries through the years) this Atkinson Borderer swb eight wheeler would take some beating.180 Gardner,did a million miles.David Brown six speed and DD Kirkstall.I think Bewick would agree,the driver was also the key.This one only had one driver in its lifetime and stood testimony to how good he was.Typically,once the product is right they go and produce the 400 series,now thats another story.
That’d be a Defender, but the rest sounds right - same wagon apart from a soluble cab (400-series)
Sorry Marky. Had a Borderer with a 240, tend to get a little excited and misty eyed when talking about the old Atki Defender 
marky:
richgriff:
Having spoken to my father at great length as to reliability,durability,economy,value for money whilst in service.He maintains (having run a mixed variety of lorries through the years) this Atkinson Borderer swb eight wheeler would take some beating.180 Gardner,did a million miles.David Brown six speed and DD Kirkstall.I think Bewick would agree,the driver was also the key.This one only had one driver in its lifetime and stood testimony to how good he was.Typically,once the product is right they go and produce the 400 series,now thats another story.That’d be a Defender, but the rest sounds right - same wagon apart from a soluble cab (400-series)