What is the EU

OUT OF HOURS BULLY'S TRUCKSTOP BAR (INTERACTIVE)
41

Actually Franglais I’d argue contrary to your argument. I’d argue that after generation upon generation of a certain system, whether be it national subjugation in the case of former Soviet states, or perceived freedom in the case of the British for example surely it must affect a nations phsyche?

We have all heard of prisoners becoming institutionalised after years in the penal system who can barely function when released and therefore reoffend purely to be back in that system. Do you think that it’s possible that these former Commie block countries subconsciously feel that way? Interestingly though in the case of these states as the older generation pass on the citizens seem less and less accepting of the EU and what it represents. Poland being a prime example.

That’s very true. Authoritarianism produces both a lack of critical thought and an inability to make decisions. After their independence what’s the first thing the majority Eastern Bloc countries tried to do? They joined the EU. Bought up under the Soviet system or an EU one, there’s no difference. The real problem is they don’t know what democracy is but are catching on and why countries such as Poland, Hungary and Serbia are now challenging the EU diktats. They beginning to realise they just came out of one dictatorship into another.

42

@Franglais

To briefly answer your questions/statements.

The difference between a documentary which presents evidence and a propaganda leaflet with a purpose to persuade is fairly obvious in itself. If YOU would like to examine the film independently, please do, but I know you won’t.

The EU is a private institution, it is not a nation state although it pretends it is with a flag, ambassadors, parliament and national anthem. Its commissioners don’t represent any one country, they represent the organization of the EU. European governments apply to join the EU like a ‘club’ and are then made to pay a membership fee each year depending on their wealth.

Explain to me the difference between “self-admitted undemocratic” and “democratic deficit”? The EU wasn’t designed to be democratic. You couldn’t have a host of member states all with different objectives without being top-down leadership led.

There is no perfect system, but there is democracy. You ask “wants to abolish national identity.” That’s already happening. It’s happening with mass immigration and multiculturalism. That cultural shift will replace current national identity. Don’t ask me and then endlessly question the source, go and look it up yourself it’s not a secret. This short video answers your question about the EU wanting to abolish the nation state (1.05 to 1.12).

None of this is a secret. It’s not a conspiracy theory. How about dividing Europe up into zones?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1527886/New-EU-map-makes-Kent-part-of-same-nation-as-France.html

It’s all lies – no it’s not. It’s what the EU was set up for, a take-over by the liberal elite masquerading as producing some kind of multicultural utopia in which nationality is erased and we all become brothers under their benevolent leadership. That’s an idea dating back to the French revolution and has never worked anywhere it has been tried.

43

@Franglais

We’re going around in circles here, so a few questions for you.

Tell me why Britain will collapse outside the EU and how it managed for hundreds of years before it and why Switzerland and Norway both have booming economies outside the EU. Explain to me the benefits of open door mass-immigration policy. If we don’t like EU leaders such as Luxembourg’s Jean-Claude Junker or Polish Donald Tusk, convince me we can vote them out. We’re an island surrounded by the sea; tell me how we can get our fishing industry back. No one likes paying 20% EU VAT, but tell me what benefits we get from that and if it goes up to 25% or 50%, what we can do about it. Tell me what was democratic about voting for the 2005 European Constitution (transfer of national sovereignty to the EU) and when France and the Netherlands voted against it, the name was changed to the Lisbon Treaty, the results were ignored and the rest of the referendums including the Czech Republic, Denmark, Ireland, Poland, Portugal and the UK were cancelled. You didn’t get a vote on the Treaty of Amsterdam 1997, or the Treaty of Nice 2001 either. Convince me all that’s democratic.

Now YOU answer the questions and let’s see what comes out of it. :slight_smile:

44

PARASITES.

45

Grandpa:
That’s very true. Authoritarianism produces both a lack of critical thought and an inability to make decisions. After their independence what’s the first thing the majority Eastern Bloc countries tried to do? They joined the EU. Bought up under the Soviet system or an EU one, there’s no difference. The real problem is they don’t know what democracy is but are catching on and why countries such as Poland, Hungary and Serbia are now challenging the EU diktats. They beginning to realise they just came out of one dictatorship into another.

All the film of the falling of the wall gives the lie to your bland assertions.
Those we saw, whether alive and adult when the Iron Curtain fell, or those born into it were critical of the system they were in. No difference between the EU and the USSR? Really? You are equating the Russian tanks in Hungary 1956, with a sub-optimal electoral in the EU?

Thanks mate! It was a grey wet day here, you`ve made me laugh out loud.

46

Franglais:
You were around in 89 werent you? You can remember the joy of the citizens of the east as the walls fell.

I was indeed my friend. I remember sharing the unbridled joy of the reunited German nation. I also shared the widely televised and public joy of the Iraqi nation as the Saddam statues crashed to the ground. I shared the joy of the Afghan folk who were freed from the Taliban shackles.

The honeymoon didn’t last long in any of these examples though did it? Into the power vacuum the biggest bullies swam in like sharks to once more intimidate and enslave the populace. T’was ever thus unfortunately Franglais, from Ghengis Khan through Napoleon, the third Reich and latterly the EU, strong, clever men have attempted to impose their will onto the people. The difference now is that the puppet masters are media savvy so instead of swords or guns they employ the hearts and minds tactics. Well, right up to the point when one disclaims them and then gets labelled with lots of things usually ending in “ist”.

47

Franglais:

Grumpy Dad:
the Eastern European nations that were once governed by a super power and struggled to break away have done so to embrace another, and the countries that fought for these freedoms the west have taken for granted have surrendered them.

Interesting point, mate. Since these countries were ruled by a remote undemocratic system wont they know what one really is? Since they choose to join the EU, isnt that because they recognise, (in spite of lots of www hype!) that it is a legitimate entity? Dont they recognise that although it isnt perfect, they are better off in than out?
Equating the EU with the USSR is a nonsense and they should know that better than us.

I’m not sure the former Eastern bloc nations are equating the EU to the USSR, but perhaps they have seen they cannot progress financially, industrially or politically as individual nations / republics / states without guidance and support, and they recognise the EU offers them the Socialist State togetherness without the communist struggle.

48

Franglais:

Grandpa:
That’s very true. Authoritarianism produces both a lack of critical thought and an inability to make decisions. After their independence what’s the first thing the majority Eastern Bloc countries tried to do? They joined the EU. Bought up under the Soviet system or an EU one, there’s no difference. The real problem is they don’t know what democracy is but are catching on and why countries such as Poland, Hungary and Serbia are now challenging the EU diktats. They beginning to realise they just came out of one dictatorship into another.

All the film of the falling of the wall gives the lie to your bland assertions.
Those we saw, whether alive and adult when the Iron Curtain fell, or those born into it were critical of the system they were in. No difference between the EU and the USSR? Really? You are equating the Russian tanks in Hungary 1956, with a sub-optimal electoral in the EU?

Thanks mate! It was a grey wet day here, you`ve made me laugh out loud.

As the concrete wall fell, another EU wall arose. Those former Eastern Bloc countries trapped inside the EU can’t knock this one down. Explain to me the difference between the Soviet Union top-down led system and the EU one, if you can. And while you’re at it, try answering the questions I asked. The EU doesn’t use tanks to enforce its diktats, it uses fines against nation state opposition or ignores dissent.

49

The EU is an experiment to create a social utopia, nothing more nothing less. It’s the culmination of a European led communist agenda that has been going on for decades trying to present itself as an acceptable alternative without telling the populations what it actually is. Initially it succeeded, but as its authoritarianism grew the protest movements emerged. It’s why Brexit happened; people are beginning to wake up to the dangers of a multicultural Marxist led institution.

The 20th century produced two major predictive works. One was George Orwell’s ‘1984’ which we’ve all heard of. Orwell was writing in an immediate post-war era where the state used violence to socially engineer societies and which didn’t work. Orwell in his introduction defined ‘1984’ by stating; ‘If you want a picture the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever.’ Following Orwell came Aldous Huxley in the late 1950s with ‘Brave New World Revisited’, in which he made an accurate prediction of the early 21st century.

‘Within the next generation I believe the world rulers will discover infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the ■■■■ for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging and kicking them into obedience.’

What Huxley accurately predicted is EU communitarianism, with its command economy, five year plans and an unelected centralized bureaucracy. The current millennials (as generations before it) fell for the utopian seduction, hook line and sinker.

It’s the 21st century. There are no more red flags on barricades, gulags, or occupying tanks rumbling through European cities. Instead there are pamphlets through letter boxes telling people how wonderful life would be if only they submitted to authoritarian EU rule and if you disagree you’re a homophobic, racist, ■■■■. The EU hierarchy have known for a decade that the EU has failed.

“This [multicultural] approach has failed, utterly failed.” Angela Merkel, Potsdam, Oct 2010.

“Under the doctrine of state multiculturalism, we have encouraged different cultures to live separate lives, apart from each other and the mainstream. We have failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong. We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values.” David Cameron, Dec 2011.

The European populations know who the Junker’s, Barroso’s and Van Rumpuy’s pushing forward the Marxist agenda are and they’re increasingly turning against it. If there was a free referendum in all EU member states there wouldn’t be an EU and that’s why they’re not allowed.

50

Franglais:

Grandpa:
That’s very true. Authoritarianism produces both a lack of critical thought and an inability to make decisions. After their independence what’s the first thing the majority Eastern Bloc countries tried to do? They joined the EU. Bought up under the Soviet system or an EU one, there’s no difference. The real problem is they don’t know what democracy is but are catching on and why countries such as Poland, Hungary and Serbia are now challenging the EU diktats. They beginning to realise they just came out of one dictatorship into another.

All the film of the falling of the wall gives the lie to your bland assertions.
Those we saw, whether alive and adult when the Iron Curtain fell, or those born into it were critical of the system they were in. No difference between the EU and the USSR? Really? You are equating the Russian tanks in Hungary 1956, with a sub-optimal electoral in the EU?

Thanks mate! It was a grey wet day here, you`ve made me laugh out loud.

Typically amateurish attempt to divert the from the fact that he knows and you know that he’s rightly equating Federalism in all its forms with Soviet tanks on Hungarian streets.Just like JNA tanks on the streets of Slovenia in 1991.Or for that matter Brit armoured cars and artillery used on the streets of Ireland in 1916-20.

Now awaits the next lie to add to another that you don’t believe that the EU is trying and intent on forming an EU Federal army.You know just like the JNA and the Black and Tan no need to go as far as the Soviet Red Army.Except in this case being ultimately controlled by a Proxy Chinese cultural Marxist agenda.Pro EU Federalist Irish and Scottish and Slovenian ‘Nationalists’ they couldn’t make it up. :unamused:

51

Carryfast:
in this case being ultimately controlled by a Proxy Chinese cultural Marxist agenda.

youtube.com/watch?v=_9SiFyaZx8Q

52

@Grandpa how can the EU be classed as a social experiment, for an answer to social cohesion, multiculturalism and the erasing of national identities you only have to look at the States, a country which started from the mass immigration of people from all European nationalities including the East, the difference being they needed to start afresh and work towards what they have today, whereas the EU already has its industries, judicial and financial systems along with its political elitist tier system, it just has to juggle what needs to be put where for the best financial return.

And you teach ■■ My guess is you’ve had too much time on your hands while teaching and you’ve filled it with back episodes Big Brother and other Social Experiment tv.

53

G-“The difference between a documentary which presents evidence and a propaganda leaflet with a purpose to persuade is fairly obvious in itself. If YOU would like to examine the film independently, please do, but I know you won’t.”

A documentary which presents evidence supporting only one point of view, is propaganda. It is clearly to persuade the audience towards one viewpoint. Choosing to present only one side of a complex argument cant be much else can it? I wont be commenting my personal view on whether or not this particular film is such, but have noted that many others have criticised it for this reason. Given that we are all on this world for a limited time, we can`t all view everything can we?

G-“The EU is a private institution, it is not a nation state although it pretends it is with a flag, ambassadors, parliament and national anthem. Its commissioners don’t represent any one country, they represent the organization of the EU. European governments apply to join the EU like a ‘club’ and are then made to pay a membership fee each year depending on their wealth.”

The EU is private in the sense that it has members, and non-members dont receive benefits of membership. In the same way that a Trade Union could be described as "private". Do we refer to them as "private institutions"? It is a use of the word that would please the supervisor of Winston Smith, isnt it? It may be strictly accurate but conjures up an easily mistaken image.
It is not a nation state. True. Since it isnt a nation it has no national anthem. Once again by playing fast and loose with language you seek to mislead the reader. Boy Scouts have flags and songs too, are they proto nation states? Football fans wave flags and sing. Its commissioners represent more than their home country. Yes, just as a UK Gov Minister is expected to represent the best interests of the whole country, not merely the constituency which (may have) elected them.
The countries who choose to join know they will expected to pay. The EU is not some dodgy nightclub where the fees are only asked for by a burly bouncer after you`re induced in.
Once again your choice of words gives a slant to the message. MinTru would be happy with your work.

G-“Explain to me the difference between “self-admitted undemocratic” and “democratic deficit”? The EU wasn’t designed to be democratic. You couldn’t have a host of member states all with different objectives without being top-down leadership led.”
Democracy is not an absolute. Any institution that is not 100% democratic has a deficit in its democratic index. The EU has expressed itself, that it has concerns. Since its inception it has changed to try to improve itself. Some of its concern arise from the apathy of many voters. Some comes from the lack of understanding by the public of its way of working. Unfortunately the spread of misinformation may exacerbate this. The lies spread around the www is dangerous to democracy.
I challenged you before to show us a perfect democracy. Obviously you didn`t, because none exist. To criticize the less than perfect is valid, but to do that without offering any realistic alternative is less so.

G-“There is no perfect system, but there is democracy. You ask “wants to abolish national identity.” That’s already happening. It’s happening with mass immigration and multiculturalism. That cultural shift will replace current national identity. Don’t ask me and then endlessly question the source, go and look it up yourself it’s not a secret. This short video answers your question about the EU wanting to abolish the nation state (1.05 to 1.12).”
Firstly I haven`t “endlessly questioned your sources”…you providing one without prompting would be a novel departure.
And a video of a Nigel Farage speech is not source material for anything useful is it…

54

Grandpa:
The EU is an experiment to create a social utopia, nothing more nothing less. It’s the culmination of a European led communist agenda

Grandpa:
dangers of a multicultural Marxist led institution.

Grandpa:
its command economy

Tell you what Grumpy Dad, we might disagree about the EU, but do we agree where this one is headed…?

55

Grumpy Dad:
@Grandpa how can the EU be classed as a social experiment, for an answer to social cohesion, multiculturalism and the erasing of national identities you only have to look at the States.

I’m sure Tito would have used exactly the same flawed simplistic comparison in setting up Yugoslavia.That worked out well.

As for the US.A Confederation of Sovereign states mostly if not all firstly based on British colonisation of the Eastern States.As shown by numerous English transplanted place names.

A Constitution which was then hijacked by Federalists with the US war of Federal aggression,resulting in massive casualties on both sides,being the eventual result. :unamused:

56

Grumpy Dad:
@Grandpa how can the EU be classed as a social experiment, for an answer to social cohesion, multiculturalism and the erasing of national identities you only have to look at the States, a country which started from the mass immigration of people from all European nationalities including the East, the difference being they needed to start afresh and work towards what they have today, whereas the EU already has its industries, judicial and financial systems along with its political elitist tier system, it just has to juggle what needs to be put where for the best financial return.

And you teach ■■ My guess is you’ve had too much time on your hands while teaching and you’ve filled it with back episodes Big Brother and other Social Experiment tv.

Yes, Grumpy I teach, it’s why I’m able to explain and also have the knowledge to do so. The cliché that we’re all a land of immigrants is a well-worn one. The US and much to the same extent the UK, had a controlled policy of immigration, which worked. When open borders were introduced it all fell apart, everywhere. Have you noticed the social chaos in the US since Obama opened the floodgates a decade ago and said all cultures are equal? Have you noticed the mess Europe is in when the EU did the same? Let’s just remind you.

The EU is an experiment, often referred to as a project. It’s because no western country in history has ever opened its borders to mass immigration in a short space of time. There were plenty of warnings, but now we know what happens. Previously immigrants were required to assimilate but now they don’t as all cultures have equality. People like myself already knew about ‘white flight’, ghettos and the crime wave that would follow the melting pot project. People are now beginning to realize the damage it has caused and why Trump is trying to build a wall, the fences are going up in Europe and why Brexit happened.

57

@Franglais

A documentary is a factual account. It doesn’t take sides, it presents information. A leaflet coming through your letterbox with an agenda and purpose behind it is propaganda. If the EU was democratic, if countries could vote out the leadership, if it wasn’t bureaucratic, if it wasn’t top-down led … Brexit the Movie would have had to acknowledge that. It didn’t because it gave the facts, not opinion. I’m not surprised you won’t critique the documentary, you can’t and I can’t.

So now you’re saying the EU is a sort of private organization. We don’t have to refer to them as ‘private’, but acknowledge that they are not a nation state and have membership rules. Yes, just like the unions or joining the RAC. The EU does have an official national anthem, google it, it’s called ‘The ode to joy’, officially ‘The anthem of Europe’ and was introduced decades ago in 1972. Boy scouts and football clubs don’t pretend they’re a nation state. The problem is most populations did not vote to join the EU, their governments led them in by treaties and where there were votes and the populations voted against, they were either ignored or made to vote until the answer was yes. That is not democracy.

No political system is 100% perfect, but an absence of democracy while trying to pretend it is, is more than an error, it’s a lie. You say, ‘Since its inception it has changed to try to improve itself.’ Tell me how the EU has grown more democratic? Anyone who equates a self-confessed undemocratic EU with democracy is either incredibly naïve, or willfully so. It’s not a question of a perfect democracy, it’s a question of having a democracy and a voice for the person on the street, not to be represented by those who make decisions and can’t be voted out.

Documentaries are excellent material. They’re not opinions and you can’t use semantics to disguise the meaning. They’re researched material and they’re not often wrong. Like him or hate him, Farage is popular because he cuts through the BS and reminds the EU hierarchy who and what they are. You tell me you don’t question my sources and then have a little rant about Farage :slight_smile: Ignore him as an individual, but listen to what he’s saying, because every remainer politician who gives public speeches is now getting the same backlash from the audience. You can’t disguise what has happened to the UK as a satellite state under the EU. You can pretend there are no ghettos, or question what multiculturalism is, or disregard what the Russians are warning you against, but Brexit proved the population do understand what they voted against.

Here’s Farage again at 3½minutes from nearly a decade ago telling the EU what they already know. The project failed, it’s over. Go on, listen to him and watch the EU hierarchy faces.

‘But just look around this chamber this morning, just look at these faces. Look at the fear, look at the anger … They’re beginning to understand the game is up and yet in their desperation to preserve their dream they want to remove any remaining traces of democracy from the system.’

I listen to both sides of the argument, but I’m not convinced by opinions, or the sound bites of ‘Better in than out.’ I want to know what I’m getting for my 20% VAT EU tax. I want to know how intentionally flooding the country with cheap foreign labour from former Eastern Bloc countries benefits the working class of Britain. I want to know who the people are who introduced UK fishing quotas and destroyed the fishing industry so I can vote them out. Yet most of all I want to know why I would vote out 400 years of parliamentary democracy in which I get a choice of leadership and exchange it for absolute rule by foreign EU commissioners who I can’t vote out. That’s called a dictatorship and I’m not getting answers from the remainers. Go on, convince me.

58

Grandpa:
A documentary is a factual account. It doesn’t take sides, it presents information. A leaflet coming through your letterbox with an agenda and purpose behind it is propaganda.

Utter tosh. You apparently have difficulty with even the basic definitions of words and phrases.
A documentary should present facts. If those facts are presented in a biased or misleading way then it is propaganda. A leaflet or a film can be propagandist in nature.
Furthermore a leaflet or film can have an “agenda or purpose” without being propagandist. A leaflet or film that informs one of the benefits and risks, of medical screening for example, has the purpose or aim, of encouraging said screening. It can and should say that the screening can be highly beneficial, but may carry some slight risk. This has a purpose, but is not propaganda, as it is balanced.

Grandpa:
It didn’t because it gave the facts, not opinion. I’m not surprised you won’t critique the documentary, you can’t and I can’t.

Again absolute tosh! You say you wont critique the film, but in the preceding sentence you state the film gave facts not opinion. You cant even be consistent between two consecutive sentences. I could critique the film if I chose to actually sit through all of it, so your sentence is again inaccurate: I won`t, but am quite capable of it.

Grandpa:
So now you’re saying the EU is a sort of private organization. We don’t have to refer to them as ‘private’, but acknowledge that they are not a nation state and have membership rules.

Grandpa:
So now you’re saying the EU is a sort of private organization. We don’t have to refer to them as ‘private’, but acknowledge that they are not a nation state and have membership rules.

Grandpa:
The EU is a private institution, it is not a nation state although it pretends it is with a flag, ambassadors, parliament and national anthem. Its commissioners don’t represent any one country, they represent the organization of the EU. European governments apply to join the EU like a ‘club’ and are then made to pay a membership fee each year depending on their wealth.

You seem a tad confused.
You started referring to the EU as a “private organisation”. I accept that is one possible description, but not a clear one. It might be one that a propagandist would choose to use, rather than someone who wishes to be clear and accurate. You are correct it is not a nation state. I dont think it pretends to be a nation state although you apparently do. Membership rules, songs and flags dont make a country.

Grandpa:
The EU does have an official national anthem,

Im getting bored with this. Utter tosh! The EU has an anthem. It is not a "national anthem" because it is not a nation. You really do have problems with very simple words and phrases dont you?

Tell you what. Let`s Use U.T. as an abbreviation for Utter Tosh !

Grandpa:
Documentaries are excellent material.

A sweeping generalisation. Documentaries are as good or as bad as the person(s) making them. A self identifying documentary can be good, accurate, educational and beneficial to it`s audience, or it can be a a piece of propaganda, designed to mislead, or it can be well meaning but inaccurate through incompetence.

Grandpa:
they’re not often wrong.

U.T.
How many of the millions(?) of documentaries extant have you viewed? How would you define the phrase “not often wrong”? How would you define “wrong” as referring to a documentary? One phrase wrong or one statement? Anything less than 49% wrong?

Grandpa:
what the Russians are warning you against

Thank You !
Another laugh out loud moment !
Ex KGB Lieutenant Colonel Vladimir Putin, who has been in Presidential and Prime-Ministerial roles since the end of 1999, warns us of undemocratic practices…

Grandpa:
I want to know what I’m getting for my 20% VAT EU tax.

What are you talking about? U.T.
Second thoughts, treat that as rhetorical question. It needs no reply, thank you.

59

Grandpa:
Yes, Grumpy I teach, it’s why I’m able to explain and also have the knowledge to do so.

U.T.
So, because someone teaches they must have knowledge and communication skills?
Hopefully a trained teacher will have those qualities but deriving one from the other as you have is false logic.
Doubtful? Let`s try an example:
“I teach drivers CPCs. That is why I am knowledgeable and a good speaker.”

Grandpa:
The cliché that we’re all a land of immigrants is a well-worn one.

Two and Two have made Four since time immemorial. Should we try summat different now?

Grandpa:
When open borders were introduced it all fell apart

When did that happen? I show my passport on entering and leaving the UK.
We aren`t in Schengen. Unlike your previously cited Switzerland and Norway incidentally. And interestingly the Swiss have about a 25% immgrant population.

Grandpa:
Have you noticed the social chaos in the US since Obama opened the floodgates a decade ago

U.S. Immigration statistics:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrati … ted_States
1990–99 977,500
2000–09 1,029,900
2010–17 1,063,134
Floodgates?
UTTER TOSH !
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_ … ted_States
Crime in the US is falling.
There are no opening floodgates. There is no corresponding hike in crime. And even if there were you have not established a causal link between immigration and crime.

((The USA, 14% immigrant population has a homicide rate at 5.35 per100,000.
Switzerland 24.9% immigrants has 0.54 per 100,000.
The US has a murder rate 10 times worse than the Swiss. Maybe they should let more immigrants in?
I hope no-one will take this little aside too seriously. :smiley: ))

There are serious issues surrounding immigration. Fake news, unsubstantiated allegations, and the like abound. Seems to me that we have a few examples in this thread. The use of language to twist and subvert meaning. The waving of arms around and “we all know”, when sometimes we dont know. Unfortunately the proliferation of false news seems to have a wearing effect. If the same lie is repeated it gains credence. It shouldnt, and we all like to think were immune, but were not. We all think were not influenced by advertising, the stats and the money spent on it proves otherwise! It doesnt make us thick, or gullible, just normal people.

Enough of this for me. Gardening duties to perform.

60

Franglais, in two pages we have had a head to head about the EU and what it is. I’ve explained what it is. Brexit the Movie has explained what it is and you’re still unable to distinguish between a documentary and a government remain leaflet coming through your door. Leading figures from the old Soviet Union have told you what it is. You’ve watched Hopkins hammer a dumb millennial remainer and Farage set about the EU hierarchy as they sit silent …

In that time I’ve had to explain to you what cultural Marxism is because you don’t even know what ideology you’re living under. You refuse to accept there are ghettos, despite ex PM Cameron telling you there are, which he calls, ‘segregated communities.’ You don’t know what mass-immigration is and ask me to define it for you. You claim there is no EU ‘anthem of Europe’ and when google tells you there is try to wriggle around denying it’s an anthem and must be something else. You didn’t even know the EU was a private membership organization and only later grudgingly accepted it might be a bit like one.

I finally gave up on you when in your last two posts you started to ramble on about gun crime in the US and Switzerland. You know why Brexit happened Franglais? It’s because you the remainers failed to persuade the majority that giving up their national identity and borders and joining an EU dictatorship was better than belonging to an independent parliamentary government who make laws suited to that country and can be voted out. You failed to persuade an electorate to pretend the EU was something it isn’t.

All over Europe protests against what is happening are rising. The ‘Yellow vests’ in France, ‘Pegida’ in Germany and ‘Golden Dawn’ in Greece. Hungary, Poland and Serbia are refusing migrant quotas and border fences are going up in southern Europe. This was not happening 30 years ago, it started to happen when the EU became political and governments forced populations into the (European Constitution) Lisbon Treaty which superseded the laws of nation states. From a once proud nation, Britain has been reduced to a MEP advisory committee to the European liberal elite. The EU dictatorship over a federal Europe has failed and the low information and denials you have presented here won’t convince many. If you’ve nothing else to say we’ll leave it here.

For all its faults, Britain is a democratic nation. Brexit was a message to the political elite that we do not want this here!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1325398/Euro-court-outlaws-criticism-of-EU.html