knight:
What I would like to do is find a site (or whatever) where I could download the basic regs, print them on A4, then laminate them so I could carry them in my bag. Might also settle a few arguements as well. There is nothing like having the proof on hand.
I used to have a laminated sheet but it’s out of date now.
Very clearly laid out and easy to understand guide to the rules HERE, complete with diagrams to help the explanations. You wouldn’t need to print all of it off, just the relevant bits. I have a hard copy of this which I received in the post and it is about the easiest to understand guide I have ever read and it even dispels a couple of the more popular myths, such as the ever popular surname first name thing. With the book I also got a DVD on the rules which gives clear explanations of the regulations but I haven’t seen it as being available from the VOSA site unfortunately.
8 legger:
I though you could opt out of the 10 hours, but it has to be in writing?? Am i wrong?
From the rules.
The period of 10 hours may be extended in relation to particular mobile workers or groups of mobile workers for objective or technical reasons or reasons concerning the organisation of work, by a collective agreement or a workforce agreement. “collective agreement” means a collective agreement within the meaning of section 178 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992[4], the trade union parties to which are independent trade unions within the meaning of section 5 of that Act; “workforce agreement” means an agreement between an employer and mobile workers employed by him or their representatives
8 legger:
I though you could opt out of the 10 hours, but it has to be in writing?? Am i wrong?
From the rules.
The period of 10 hours may be extended in relation to particular mobile workers or groups of mobile workers for objective or technical reasons or reasons concerning the organisation of work, by a collective agreement or a workforce agreement. “collective agreement” means a collective agreement within the meaning of section 178 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992[4], the trade union parties to which are independent trade unions within the meaning of section 5 of that Act; “workforce agreement” means an agreement between an employer and mobile workers employed by him or their representatives
To expand on this a little, you can opt out of the night time workers 10 hour rule by collective workforce agreement that meets certain criteria such as:
The workforce agreement should be in writing and signed by representatives of the workforce.
(representatives of the workforce" are workers duly elected to represent the relevant members of the workforce)
The agreement must have effect for a specified period of time not exceeding five years.
It should apply either - to all of the relevant members of the workforce, or to all of the relevant members of the workforce who belong to a particular group.
before the agreement was made available for signature, the employer provided all the workers to whom it was intended to apply on the date on which it came into effect with copies of the text of the agreement and such guidance as those employees might reasonably require in order to understand it in full.
If I start a new dayly period at 06:00 Monday imediately following a weekly break
and work until 10:00 monday // then take 11 hours dayly rest.
Can I begin a new shift/dayly cycle at 22:00 monday.
Or would that be an infridgement ?
Many thanks 2xQ
PS: Sentex, now thats an explosive handle
PPS: bett he works for TNT
If I start a new daily period at 06:00 Monday immediately following a weekly break and work until 10:00 monday // then take 11 hours daily rest.
Can I begin a new shift/daily cycle at 22:00 monday.
As a daily rest of 12 hours has been taken between shifts then I say YES.
Pretty sure I got this right so I might not have to dodge bulletts from Coffeeholic
As someone whos not been near a tacho for about 3 years and to get back to the original point - could you not show your breaks on your tacho when youre getting tipped or does this have to be shown as POA■■?
russjp:
As someone whos not been near a tacho for about 3 years and to get back to the original point - could you not show your breaks on your tacho when youre getting tipped or does this have to be shown as POA■■?
By getting tipped, do you mean just sitting in the cab whilst others are actually doing the tipping OR do you mean being hands on and/or supervising the tipping
russjp:
As someone whos not been near a tacho for about 3 years and to get back to the original point - could you not show your breaks on your tacho when youre getting tipped or does this have to be shown as POA■■?
By getting tipped, do you mean just sitting in the cab whilst others are actually doing the tipping OR do you mean being hands on and/or supervising the tipping
I mean when you are sat on your `arris in the cab while someone else offloads you
If I start a new dayly period at 06:00 Monday imediately following a weekly break
and work until 10:00 monday // then take 11 hours dayly rest.
Can I begin a new shift/dayly cycle at 22:00 monday.
Yes you can, and you would then have to have completed your next daily rest period by 22:00 Tuesday. Quite simply a new 24 hour period begins when you resume work after a daily or weekly rest period.
russjp:
As someone whos not been near a tacho for about 3 years and to get back to the original point - could you not show your breaks on your tacho when youre getting tipped or does this have to be shown as POA■■?
" By getting tipped, do you mean just sitting in the cab whilst others are actually doing the tipping OR do you mean being hands on and/or supervising the tipping"
That could be an interesting situation as it tecnically either “POA, OW, or Break”
depending on what your doing and wether your employer has aggree’ed in avance.
OK, I explain…
The way I understand it is like this:
As " being hands on and/or supervising the tipping " is most certantly OTHER-WORK
and " just sitting in the cab " is only a POA if you employer knows about it in advance
so assuming you do ABSOLUTELY no work at all (not even ajusting the tacho setting) it could be recorded as a Break
FLACK jacket and Tin-hat on, give me a few seconds to nip in the trench
“INCOMING”
DoubleQ:
" By getting tipped, do you mean just sitting in the cab whilst others are actually doing the tipping OR do you mean being hands on and/or supervising the tipping"
That could be an interesting situation as it tecnically either “POA, OW, or Break”
depending on what your doing and wether your employer has aggree’ed in avance.
OK, I explain…
The way I understand it is like this:
As " being hands on and/or supervising the tipping " is most certantly OTHER-WORK
and " just sitting in the cab " is only a POA if you employer knows about it in advance
so assuming you do ABSOLUTELY no work at all (not even ajusting the tacho setting) it could be recorded as a Break
FLACK jacket and Tin-hat on, give me a few seconds to nip in the trench
“INCOMING”
Regards 2xQ
For POA there’s no need for your employer to know in advance as long as you know in advance how long you’ll be waiting
In advance can mean being told immediately before putting the tacho on POA.
So waiting whilst being tipped you could use break or POA as long as you’re told how long you’ll be waiting.
DoubleQ:
" By getting tipped, do you mean just sitting in the cab whilst others are actually doing the tipping OR do you mean being hands on and/or supervising the tipping"
That could be an interesting situation as it tecnically either “POA, OW, or Break”
depending on what your doing and wether your employer has aggree’ed in avance.
OK, I explain…
The way I understand it is like this:
As " being hands on and/or supervising the tipping " is most certantly OTHER-WORK
and " just sitting in the cab " is only a POA if you employer knows about it in advance
so assuming you do ABSOLUTELY no work at all (not even ajusting the tacho setting) it could be recorded as a Break
FLACK jacket and Tin-hat on, give me a few seconds to nip in the trench
“INCOMING”
Regards 2xQ
For POA there’s no need for your employer to know in advance as long as you know in advance how long you’ll be waiting
In advance can mean being told immediately before putting the tacho on POA.
Or even just based on you personal experience. For example every time you deliver there it takes them an hour to tip your trailer so you could, book that as POA. You could equally book it as a break as there is very little difference between POA and a break apart from the knowing about it in advance thing, which is unenforceable anyway. Can you imagine VOSA in the latter part of 2008 checking back with a company you delivered to last week?
VOSA: “Ah, good morning VOSA here. Can you tell us if you informed driver Mr DoubleQ the length of time he would be waiting to tip when he delivered to your company at 10:35 on the 29th of December last, thus enabling him to legally book the waiting time as a Period of Availability, or is Mr DoubleQ pulling a fast one?”
Thanks for the Clarification “tachograph” & “Coffeeholic”
POA’s are one aspect that always comfused me
( not now, thanks again dudes)
also its going to be differcult in a working enviroment to stay strickly within the rules if recording a “Break” in the Cab
(or even in the Yard Canteen)
As any instant that required you to perform a work-ratated task
(example, even sort the load invoices)
would be an [ interuption ] i.e change of mode to Other-Work
And may even require you to restart the Break from zero minutes
Life’s an as*
Regards 2xQ
PS: Ive only even recorded one POA, and that was while waiting for a tipping location to open
(after arriving 30 minutes before they opened,
and having been previously informed of there opening time )
Incidentally VOSA themselves have produced some misleading information over the past few months with a recent clarification.
In an article in the operators magazine “Moving On” (least i think that’s where i saw it) it gave the impression that the 1st 45 minutes of a POA (and recorded as such on the tacho) could be classified as break.
This was wrong. It ONLY applies to the 2nd driver on double manned vehicle.
Driveroneuk:
Incidentally VOSA themselves have produced some misleading information over the past few months with a recent clarification.
In an article in the operators magazine “Moving On” (least i think that’s where i saw it) it gave the impression that the 1st 45 minutes of a POA (and recorded as such on the tacho) could be classified as break.
This was wrong. It ONLY applies to the 2nd driver on double manned vehicle.
Correct, they did that in issue 20 and corrected it on page 2 of issue 21.
Driveroneuk:
Incidentally VOSA themselves have produced some misleading information over the past few months with a recent clarification.
In an article in the operators magazine “Moving On” (least i think that’s where i saw it) it gave the impression that the 1st 45 minutes of a POA (and recorded as such on the tacho) could be classified as break.
This was wrong. It ONLY applies to the 2nd driver on double manned vehicle.
Correct, they did that in issue 20 and corrected it on page 2 of issue 21.
Coffee, do you have a link to this info please? I have been telling drivers at work that this is the case, however, one of the fleet manager bods has said that we cannot do this as it is not legal. We double up from time to time, and put one vehicle on top of the other to save on fuel - I have been saying that the second driver CAN take a break on POA. My reasoning on this is that it is legal to take a break (not a rest) as the second driver, regardless of tacho type - but as you cannot change POA to BREAK while the vehicle is in motion with a digital - it has lead to the misconception that it can only be counted as POA. Surely you can just write on the back of the printout that you have taken a break?
