Hi,
Does the driver pay for the overnight stay at the services (i.e. £24) out of his night out pay (i.e. £40) or is it down to the employer?
It’s payment to cover your meal away from home and the inconvenience of not being in your own bed. Parking payments are a different thing that’s between you and your employer.
ie your boss says he’s not paying parking then park in a lay-by just remember that you wanna stop somewhere earlier to wash and eat etc then drive on to park up … play him at his own game.
Some places say they’ll only pay up to x for parking, again play the game , your not a security guard …
Yres:
Hi,
Does the driver pay for the overnight stay at the services (i.e. £24) out of his night out pay (i.e. £40) or is it down to the employer?
No he ■■■■■■■ doesn’t. That’s down to you as an operator, it’s your lorry not his. You retain the receipt, enter the cost in your accounts and get it allowed against tax. You also make sure that you allow for all the overnight expenses when quoting for a job, just as you do for the fuel the vehicle uses.
Thanks for your replies, let me clarify my case:
Last night was the first time my driver stayed out overnight. He paid £28 for parking at the services including a meal voucher (it would have been £26 without a £9 food voucher). He will bring a receipt back to me to have the cost of it reimbursed. On top of that we will get paid £40 for a night out. So altogether he will be paid £68.
I belive the HMRC night out allowance is £26.18 for a night out in a sleeper cab, therefore any excess should be taxed and NI’d (£68 - £26.18 = £41.82).
Does anyone know if that is a correct way of calculating it? Or is there a better way of thinking about it? I have had a look here (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=135398&start=60), but I am even more confused after reading this.
Also, am I tight, fair or generous with the £40 on top of the parking cost?
Thanks
£40 is really good…i used to get to get 22.50 & no parking payed
No longer in that employment
It’s covers you to guard the vehicle like an overnight security guard @ approx £2.30ph over 11 hrs
Yres:
Thanks for your replies, let me clarify my case:Last night was the first time my driver stayed out overnight. He paid £28 for parking at the services including a meal voucher (it would have been £26 without a £9 food voucher). He will bring a receipt back to me to have the cost of it reimbursed. On top of that we will get paid £40 for a night out. So altogether he will be paid £68.
I belive the HMRC night out allowance is £26.18 for a night out in a sleeper cab, therefore any excess should be taxed and NI’d (£68 - £26.18 = £41.82).
Does anyone know if that is a correct way of calculating it? Or is there a better way of thinking about it? I have had a look here (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=135398&start=60), but I am even more confused after reading this.
Also, am I tight, fair or generous with the £40 on top of the parking cost?
Thanks
You are almost correct in your calculations, anything over £26.18 should be taxed ( but not have NI paid on it). However, your £41.82 figure is irrelevant. The parking is a business expense and the driver pays tax on the difference between £26.18 and the £40 you are paying him.
Most drivers who are on £26.18 night-out money with parking and meal voucher paid would consider themselves to be doing fairly well.
See gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim66110
gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim66115 and
gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim66130
Many thanks, now I’m ready to talk to my accountant and won’t let him fob me off 
I would check with your accountant, as I thought that if you paid in excess of the approved amount, the whole amount was subject to tax, not just the difference.
coiler:
I would check with your accountant, as I thought that if you paid in excess of the approved amount, the whole amount was subject to tax, not just the difference.
You could be right. In this case, it’s probably better to do it the old-fashioned way with a couple of purple beer vouchers handed over in a quiet corner of the yard without informing HMRC 
Any night out substance paid to the driver is tax free. Parking is a tax deductible expense.
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if i remember noel zwecker used to pay minimum wage for a bare week into your bank account,and £50 cash every night out…saved the driver the tax,plus he could claim all those low wage tax credit benifits etc,and still made a good wage…this was years ago but worked out decent dosh as you were never home.
Honestscott76:
Any night out substance paid to the driver is tax free.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No its not
nick2008:
Honestscott76:
Any night out substance paid to the driver is tax free.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No its not
Oh yes it is!
gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim66110
The mere fact that a lorry has a sleeper cab does not prevent the employer paying an amount tax free up to the limit shown in EIM66110 (or locally agreed limits) provided that the employer is satisfied that the driver did incur expenses on overnight accommodation (for example by staying in a hotel) and meals.
Where the employer knows that the driver uses the sleeper cab, the amount paid free of tax should not exceed a reasonable reimbursement of:
evening meal and breakfast
washing facilities
upkeep of bedding in the cab.
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Any ‘night out’ payment (Subsistence) to the driver is fully tax deductible to the company. Therefore any PAYE taxation may be deemed unlawful deductions from pay under Employment Rights Act 1996
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coiler:
I would check with your accountant, as I thought that if you paid in excess of the approved amount, the whole amount was subject to tax, not just the difference.
Hence why the HMRC issue specific substance rates on this subject.
gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim66110
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We get £26.56 plus parking expenses paid for as well but if they give a meal voucher that is deducted…
If you want to give a driver subsistence rates greater than the amounts agreed in EIM66110 - Tax treatment of lorry drivers: subsistence allowances paid to lorry drivers: approved amount - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK or 75% of them if the driver admits to (or you know he is) using the sleeper cab.
It must be either:
Supported by a documented claim from the driver, this is supposed to be a true reflection of all the actual costs incurred. You can’t just say he is allowed £26.18 and he has a bill for £28, therefore £68-£26.16-£28= £13.82 taxable. Or worse £68-£40-£28= No tax
If he presents only a £28 bill for and you pay that as part of a ‘night out’ then that’s his entire claim, everything else is taxable. The whole agreed rate scheme is to save chasing small bills for expenses, once you present bills for subsistence, you need to make a proper expenses reimbursement claim
Or:
If you want to pay £40 Subsistence Allowance you must agree this rate with your local tax office (in writing) by giving a reason why your average costs are higher than the industry average.
HMRC are fairly clear on what reasonable costs they would consider: evening meal and breakfast, washing facilities, upkeep of bedding in the cab.
No part of the night out money can be a form of payment (even if the total amount is less than £26.18) without it being taxable.
In your case and in the absence of an agreement with HMRC for the £40 rate, the driver should get 3 payments defined as:
Night out subsistence £26.18 (not taxable)
Night out earnings £13.82 (subject to tax and NI)
Expenses claim (parking) £28. This could be settled in cash (subject to a claim and a receipt) without appearing on the drivers wages.
I have previously agreed with HMRC a higher flat subsistence rate (over £40 in 2008) for drivers sometimes engaged on European routes, claiming that it is impossible to keep claims straight when a driver may take his evening meal and shower in France and his breakfast in the UK, or he may do his weekly food shop abroad (more expensive) and then end up not returning to the continent for any further nights. Current Euro rates would make this a slam-dunk.
I believe that the meal voucher must be considered as part of the subsistence payment, if the employer ultimately refunds the parking charge, but only if it can be shown to be redeemed as it has no alternate cash or ‘payment in kind’ value. But you would need to check this (and the rest of my post!) with an accountant or HMRC.