Talking today it became evident that people have different views on what makes up their wages.
For my part its what I get for the hours I work, any night out money, meal allowance, bonus etc all makes the difference when I am deciding if I want to work for someone, but they are not wages.
Talking today someone described under £50 per day as good money as by the time meals allowance, night money etc had been added his mate was earning £400+ per week for very little real work, but its still under £50.00 per day IMHO.
Coach drivers often include tips, when you consider that this is what the tax man does it sounds reasonable but go off sick & its a different story when it comes to earnings surely we have to look at what we get paid for the work not the add ons that we are not guaranteed or that cover our added expenses ?.
Whatever goes in the bank on a friday is wages as far as im concered, be it made up of night out money and any other allowances, i dont care, all im interested in, is what im paid on a friday.
What I get for my hours worked,is what I’d class as wages.Anything else,ie:night out money,bonus etc,is an addition for which I don’t take into account for my weekly earnings,because it’s not a fixed amount.
Ken.
Wages are exactly that… WAGES!
It does my head in when some drivers say I earn £400+ take home but then goes on to say £100+ of it is night out and meal money!
Night out money is not wages! its for you to buy bits you need and the Inconvenience of not sleeping in your own bed! same for meal money… would you really pay £4 for a sarnie if you worked at home?
No but then i wouldnt spend £4 on a sandwich if i was up the road, i used to take my own stuff.
Wages are whats in your pay packet at the end of the week, regardless of how its made up in my opinion.
I agree with Gurner, but, from my point of view, what’s paid hourly and nothing else.
IMHO
When i was driving, it was the same as one or two others here … BOTTOM LINE !
For instance, 2 jobs of identical work & identical hours with 3 nights out
Job 1 pays £350 salary & £10 night out
Job 2 pays £300 salary & £30 night out
Who’s gonna tell me that job 1 is the BETTER job (even if 2is lower paid)
As long as drivers keep counting night out money as wages the hourly rates will stay low. What happens in a week when there are no nights out, those of you counting night out money as wages will have a lower wage that week but could have done as much work as a week with nights out. 
That is crazy.
Wages are they money you get paid per hour, or day, or month or whatever. Night out money is for expenses incurred by you as part of your job, expenses incurred by you which do not include paying to park the company vehicle. I have heard drivers saying “I get £X night out money but I have to pay the parking."
Employers by getting drivers to count the night out money as part of the wages are doing it to save themselves money, lower wage = less employers NI contributions.
I have never, never, never, ever taken a job on simply because the take home money includes night out money, bonus, meal allowance etc. etc.
When I worked for TNT they kept telling us that we were earning £6.50 per hour… WOW! at the time it was quite reasonable. What they did not tell us was that that £6.50 was made up of all sorts of pony… early start bonus, night premium, average overtime etc. etc.
Before I start any job I need to know the bog standard hourly rate without all the bells and whistles. Everything on top of that, which is never guarenteed, is a bonus.
No one should ever have to work overtime, nights out etc. just to earn a decent wack. I certainly would not do so…
Gggrrrr!!
Nuff said…
Terry
When cosidering any new job a driver has to consider all the the different levels of overtime. eg 1.5 or 1.2 for overtime and what the rate is for nights and weekends. eg time and a half or double time and when the higher rates kick in. Some companies have developed highly complicated wage structures over time.
Night rates are sometimes only £1 an hour more than day rates, somtimes they are a percentage. They might be paid during certain working hours (eg 20.00 until 06.00) or they may be paid for the whole of a shift if you start after a set time. Overtime might not be paid on the extra shift pay, only on the basic hourly rate.
Overtime its self might not be paid until after 36, 40, 50 or even 60 hours.
Remember overtime, nights out and bonuses are not always guaranteed and can be dissapear fairly easy.
Gurner:
Whatever goes in the bank on a friday is wages as far as im concered, be it made up of night out money and any other allowances, i dont care, all im interested in, is what im paid on a friday.
i`m with gurner on this one… irrespective of how its made up… take home pay come friday is the important bit. (in my opinion of course)
About 18 months ago we all agree’d (our company drivers etc) to have $190 a week taken off our weekly wage and then get $190 a week per diem (Tax free).
Obviously this gives us more in our pockets, not only that but it reduces our taxable income for the year, giving us a bigger tax break and better refund each year.
The guy who gets 350 quid + 10 night out is worse off that the guy who gets 300 + 30 night out because thats 30 he can’t be taxed on.
My getting that $190 tax free has helped me in another way that I never dreamed of before 
I am currently trying to buy an new home somewhere. Using a state scheme because my taxable pay is below a certain standard, I can have a $10,000 down payment grant + $5,000 for any rapairs, I can’t sell fro 10 years if I do this, but hey 
$15k is $15k.
If the $190 tax free became regular pay again I would not qualify, and it would be $15k out of Mine and Kate’s pockets
Well I absolutely fail to see the logic of some of these “basic wage” arguments.
Again best shown by an example, surely nobody in their right mind would choose job 2 below (assuming the both were identical in terms of work, start times, vehicles, hours & all the other variables).
Job 1: £7.50 per hour flat rate, 1.5 for overtime
40 basic = £300
20 OT = £225
£525 topline
Job 2: £7 per hour flat rate plus 1.5 overtime
40 hours = £280
20 OT = £210
Attendance bonus £3 per day = £15
Meal allowance £4 per day = £20
Mileage bonus @ 4p per Km = £100 for 2500 kms
Total topline £625
The only benefit I can see in job 1 is the holiday pay, and if you want to be lazy & not turn out the work ?
The last job I had, we were paid a basic + overtime, but also a bonus rate which was converted into hours, then “booked” hours deducted from it & the balance paid @ a set rate. It took me maybe a day or two to suss the bonus scheme & many of the “bright” ones would do 10 hours good productive work, then shirk around the shunt bay for 2 or 3 hours “getting time in” — Then they wonder why just 3 or 4 of us take home the same money as them every week & book LESS hours 
I have never been a doo gooder, but prefer to be rewarded for doing the job WELL & EFFICIENTLY rather than grabbing a basic & making do.
Am I wrong ■■?
If the $190 tax free became regular pay again I would not qualify, and it would be $15k out of Mine and Kate’s pockets
Now theres a man that CAN see past the end of his nose 
I am in no way having a pop at anybody in my other post, simply trying to look at it from another angle, or thinking outside of the box. I have worked with a lot of drivers over the years, some of them far more intelligent than me, on of which used to shout the odds about his A levels & degree, but couldn’t work out the bonus system I mentioned above. It was a bit tricky to grasp, made up of mileage, tipping, loading, coupling trailers, 2nd 3rd & 4th drop rates & even “dark bonus” but with a bit of logical thinking it could be made to work FOR the driver, whilst still doing ok for the boss !!
I do know that most people (drivers or others) will grab the highest paid base rate, I had 2 sparkys working for me on seperate pay structures just to keep THEM happy & most of the time the bonus based guy would beat the other one by £50 - £100 a week, although he probably did work a bit harder. Of course the other one would complain most weeks, but still REFUSE to go on the same scheme Some people just want to have their cake and eat it 
It’s the base rate and the gauranteed hours that are the motivators for me. The base rate is what any holiday pay and pension (defered wages) will be based on, sick pay (if higher than the statutary minimum of £270 a week) will also be affected by that.
The dark hours, attendance bonus don’t count if you are not at work and the mileage bonus might been seen as an inducement to break the law (speeding, hours regs etc) unless there is a penalty check clause. Thats the difference between a truck driver and a sparky really.
Does that mean I have a different work ethic from someone who advocates these schemes? I don’t know but how can you be sure that every mile covered is necessary? And how do you be sure that every one gets the same opportunity to get the good earning runs. At my depot, and I don’t suppose its so different from most, there are those who are “in favour” and those who are not. Why should you get penalised if you are not in the right clique?
I used be in a share save scheme with Tibbett and Britten. They have recently been taken over by Exel and I’ve lost the chance to continue this though not the money. Thats a unilateral change in the benefits available to me from my employer. Not all fiddlers play the violin.
Thats the difference between a truck driver and a sparky really.
I shall not go into rant mode about poor quality work, all I WILL say is if ANY of you live in a newish house, just make sure you got some good insurance !!! I have seen some absolutely diabolical work by so called professional spark companies & it is so obvious that it’s money motivated. But of course this isn’t the place for it, just making a friendly reply to your comment.
One simple way to look at it is what is counted as taxable income.
For example me and my girlfriend have just got a mortgage and when we applied the mortgage company would only take into account my Gross taxable pay as wages even though my wage slips show and average 3 nights out per week. The taxable pay does include bonuses, basic, and average overtime, BUT does not include meal allowances or night out money.
When drivers count night out money as wages and think they are on a good number because they are out 5 nights a week then the average drivers pay will stay crap, the gaffers play on this and thats why pay is bad in our industry.
Let them give you the pay just for the hours worked and then if they want you to be away at night pay expenses on top. The sooner drivers stop looking at the whole package the sooner the wages will get better.
Just my opinion
Paul
Take home pay can be very differnt from the pay that any sick pay, holiday pay etc is based on.
Also bonus payments, nights out money etc is not garenteed earnings, I want to know what I will get paid for X hours or if I’m off sick etc.
Toytown:
I shall not go into rant mode about poor quality work, all I WILL say is if ANY of you live in a newish house, just make sure you got some good insurance !!! I have seen some absolutely diabolical work by so called professional spark companies & it is so obvious that it’s money motivated. But of course this isn’t the place for it, just making a friendly reply to your comment.
Fair enough but as far I can see you are agreeing with me. Why should you feel the need to apologise for that? 
i agree that night out money should never be counted as wages. but the figures that count are the ones on your p60.