Mal:
i think 21’s a pretty good age for hgv, some are still childish at that age, but a lot more would be at 18 i reckon! its all a compromise.
how old is the average boy racer? would you want them running around in a 44 tonner?
so you reckon 21 is too young? or did you read my post wrong?
i said 21 is ok for hgv, like we all got them at. some people are still childish even at 21, but more of a % of em will be at 18. i dont think lessening the age is a good idea, as i said in my post.
i would say 21 is ok. i would agree to 18 under strict control ie it is restricted until they show they can handle something bigger and heavier. plus they would have to prove they have the attitude for it. i have seen teenagers driving quite well (admittedly, not many) and they probably could handle a rigid after decent training but i would suggest that it be restricted til they show enough competence to advance onto artics although this would be proven skill based rather than time scale!
i dont mean to discriminate against age (i got my C + E when i was 19) but people are different. some people will pick it up no problem whereas others will need to get used to rigids before they could drive an artic. in some cases it is down to natural ability but others would need to acquire the skills required by going out there and driving something between a 7.5 tonner and an artic.
Mal:
but if a driver can do their job satisfactory and adapt via common sense to changes then they should be left alone to do it, not aggravated with some load of [zb] that somebody else thinks is a good idea. this training for this, training for that larks getting out of hand, anybody would be amazed how we got this far in history without it.
absolutely.
i have had my class 1 for 8 years now but i refused to drive artics til i had been trained and that was only 7 months ago. i referred to myself as a licence holder rather than driver because i hadnt touched class 1 in years and i was not about to risk having an accident in a vehicle that i felt i wasnt competant to drive. i was given some training and now i refuse to drive rigids cos im a class 1 driver
the point is that i knew i needed training and asked for it. i believe i am fairly competant (still learning though) but further training would be of little use. i need to go out and learn myself via experience. i did get a letter printed about this last year which questioned ‘on the job training’ and why it doesnt seem to apply to this industry
i think the age thing is just attempting damage limitation scanny. theres so many different types of individuals it’d be a pig of a job to sort a system thatd be fair to all. so, knowing human nature to be what it is, they say older heads are a bit wiser. in most cases thats true.
there aint a doubt that some teenagers are level headed. there also aint a doubt that more in their 20’s will be level headed, and it goes on to 30’s 40’s ect ect. i think 21 is good for a compromise for driving hgv.
i drove a 7.5 at 18 no test needed of course then, just a full car license, i did reasobale considering me age. but i dont think it’d have been wise to fire the likes of me then into the 8 wheeler trunk motor we had on the firm, even though i was mad to drive it and believed i could ■■■■ the job!
Mal:
and i speak for myself, if the day comes i cannot do any job im given to do, then they can train me for it. i aint ever failed yet, till then i’d appreciate being left alone to get on with it.
but if a driver can do their job satisfactory and adapt via common sense to changes then they should be left alone to do it, not aggravated with some load of [zb] that somebody else thinks is a good idea. this training for this, training for that larks getting out of hand, anybody would be amazed how we got this far in history without it.
Can’t argue with that. The first (haulage) job I did was Stanton concrete pipes on a 4 wheel flat. I asked the next driver how to do the dollies and he supervised while I learnt. Cost him 30 mins and me a cup of tea and a bacon sarnie. When I’d tipped I consulted my Headlight (following another mate’s advice) and got a load of cases out of London to Bath and Bristol. I knew how to do the dollies by this time so no problem. Using Headlight again I found my digs round the country 'till I ended up back in Nottingham at the weekend, loaded, to tip locally Monday morning and back into Stanton. After 6 months of this the boss said one Saturday morning ‘move your stuff, from now on you’re an artic driver’. Took the new wagon home, practised reversing on the waste ground all afternoon and Sunday, then tipped without problems Liverpool docks Monday, including reversing blindside into a darkened warehouse with an overwide load.
the point is that i knew i needed training and asked for it. i believe i am fairly competant (still learning though) but further training would be of little use. i need to go out and learn myself via experience.
exactomundo scanny well said, theres nowt worse than being treated like a kid, (unless you are a kid then it’s needed) we do have common sense, and you used yours to good effect there!
Mal:
i think the age thing is just attempting damage limitation scanny. theres so many different types of individuals it’d be a pig of a job to sort a system thatd be fair to all. so, knowing human nature to be what it is, they say older heads are a bit wiser. in most cases thats true.
there aint a doubt that some teenagers are level headed. there also aint a doubt that more in their 20’s will be level headed, and it goes on to 30’s 40’s ect ect. i think 21 is good for a compromise for driving hgv.
i drove a 7.5 at 18 no test needed of course then, just a full car license, i did reasobale considering me age. but i dont think it’d have been wise to fire the likes of me then into the 8 wheeler trunk motor we had on the firm, even though i was mad to drive it and believed i could [zb] the job!
fair points there and i cant really argue with you…
great post david! you know, it just reminded me of the time i started on the artics, i lied to get into the job, BUT, i did get some experience doing the dolly’s fron a beam in the cieling of a garage to a vice, with a bloke thast showed me how. i was a rubbish pilot, was useless with directions, but could at least tie a good knot.
anyway, first load on a 40’er it was steel to manchester, and load on wallasey with flour, the load was bags and they tumbled all over the place as the forklift was loading them. i sheeted it best as i could, and a old bloke sat there in a motor looked over and laughed, take it off he said and he showed me the right way! the ropes i did myself,
i can remember after reading your post the great excitement mixed with fear of my early days on the road, it was great, i was scared stiff a lot of the time, it was adventurers and dangerous too and i wouldnt have missed it for the world!
the point is that i knew i needed training and asked for it. i believe i am fairly competant (still learning though) but further training would be of little use. i need to go out and learn myself via experience.
exactomundo scanny well said, theres nowt worse than being treated like a kid, (unless you are a kid then it’s needed) we do have common sense, and you used yours to good effect there!
I’ve said before that one of the main qualities you need in this job is common sense, but not all drivers seem to have that, they won’t ask if they don’t know.
training doesn’t have to be formal classroom type thing, but if new equipment or new regulations are introduced we all need to know how to do the job properly, instead of relying on rumour and hearsay.
Reading Spardo’s accounts of his first jobs, reminds me of mine.
One of my first job was with a tipper on sugarbeet, the boss knew I’d never used a tipper, so just said ask one of his drivers when I get to Cantley, but I never saw any of his other drivers, so I told the digger driver I hadn’t got a clue, luckly he got another driver to show me.
Next job I got sent out with a Spud bulker, not much of a clue about that either, one of the guys show me how to connect it up and away it went, I only worked out you had to take the boards out when the spuds stopped appearing on the belt, thinking the board would be about 4ft long I gave it a right tug and landed on my arse, looking at this tiny bit of wood.
yes, credit where its due, you have always said common sense is needed in this job.
youve got one up on me anyway muckels, i aint worked a spud bulker, but i bet i will remember the bit about pulling the board out if i ever do, now hearing your tale!
Mal:
i can remember after reading your post the great excitement mixed with fear of my early days on the road, it was great, i was scared stiff a lot of the time, it was adventurers and dangerous too and i wouldnt have missed it for the world!
my first ever artic job was for Sewells in coventry running wheels up to the landrover plant, longbridge. it was a DAF 85 and at night. the guy wasnt impressed when i turned up not knowing what i was doing but i did it anyway and after a few odd artic jobs here and there, i went back proving that i was getting better which pleased him.
i started all over again this year and i love it now. im happy with the ERF ECT that i normally drive and i dont think twice about getting into any drops although i still muck it up sometimes. yesterday, i backed round the gate at andover mill perfectly, today i had the same trailer but it took a shunt cos i screwed round too far
i dont care, im still getting better and every day is more experience which is building my confidence. im enjoying it and none of my mistakes so far have caused as much as a scratch so i must be doing something right
Mal:
yes, credit where its due, you have always said common sense is needed in this job.
youve got one up on me anyway muckels, i aint worked a spud bulker, but i bet i will remember the bit about pulling the board out if i ever do, now hearing your tale!
Are they were the “good old days” it’s all self tippers and easy sheets now. although they don’t self tip very well when they covered in mud and the easy sheets never seem that easy to pull over the top of a full load. but haven’t been near that end of haulage for a about a year, it’s all swaning about the continent with racing cars for now at least.
Ollie:
18 or 21? well I don’t think age has a lot to do with it, it’s all down to aptitude, it’s down to a willingness to learn the job.
I’ve met some right doughnuts in my time, with qualifications coming out there ears - but totally useless at everday situations.
So, if the boy’s keen at 18 - give him a chance.
But how do you tell the one’s who have the aptitude at 18, 21 or any age?
Being keen is not enough, 90% of the people who apply to the X factor are as keen as mustard to be stars, but most shouldn’t be let anywhere near a microphone.
Hence you set an age and 21 seems okay to me, to old for some and to young for others.
SimonRS2K:
Why not set the age to 25 then that would silence the discrimination of the rip off insurance companies and make it fair for new and old drivers
simon
Because the insurance companies would set the age to 30.
I feel the age should be lower then 21, feel the right age should be 19.
The reason for this is it gives you a chance to get a trade behind you (if you wish) which would mean you’re qualified at 19, in most cases, including mine. This is then the perfect time to pursue your carer in driving.
I know you still get (zb) at that age, I see them most days. But in most cases they just want to get that step closer into becoming a professional driver, and not having to wait until you are 21, which is a long time off.
I think the YDS is a great scheme, I have looked into this and will do again soon, I just wish more operators would do the same.
Age is pretty much irrelivent in my opinion. I’m 21 and consider myself to be a very responsible and safe driver, my driving record speaks for itself. I know quite a few other lads who are also 21/22 and none of them are the stereotypical boy racer people like to portray us to be, we all drive our trucks in a safe manner and pride ourselves in doing so. Yet, others at the companies we work at, many in their 40s have no end of bumps and bangs, brag about all sorts of mental driving and the condition of their trucks as they stand in the yard with hanging off bumpers, backs of mirrors missing and such thing speaks for itself and casts the myth that young drivers are dangerous/immature out of the window and I might add that no amount of pathetic 5 yearly training will change any of this, people cannot be programmed, everyone has a personality and that is followed through into their job, end of story.
muckles:
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Are they were the “good old days” it’s all self tippers and easy sheets now. :
What on earth is a ‘self tipper’? Even I’m not old enough to remember getting out and cranking a handle at the side of the chassis - well, I did have a Dinky toy once, that was hard enough
Easy Sheets seem like a good idea, they came in long after my tipping days were over. Some tipping jobs were very dangerous, at Bulkliner we loaded standard opentop containers with Coalite at Bolsover which, due to the lightness of the product, was loaded way above the sides. We didn’t sheet it but patted it down into a nice dome by tightrope walking round the box top with a giant shovel . That was for the road, if we put the box on the train the height had to be kept down a bit but we still had to ballet dance around on top sheeting it.
thinking the board would be about 4ft long I gave it a right tug and landed on my arse, looking at this tiny bit of wood.