Hi guys, trying to get my head around this thoroughly to avoid any problems down the line. If a driver takes a 45 hour rest on “weekend 1” then reduce on “weekends 2 and 3” but then has a 45 on “weekend 4” is this legal? Or, as I read the rules, does that 45 on weekend 4 have to be finished by midnight Sunday to be legal?

It’s the “any 2 consecutive fixed weeks” bit I’m struggling with!

AaronR:
If a driver takes a 45 hour rest on “weekend 1” then reduce on “weekends 2 and 3” but then has a 45 on “weekend 4” is this legal?

In any fortnight a driver shall take a regular rest period. Do you see that there?

AaronR:
Or, as I read the rules, does that 45 on weekend 4 have to be finished by midnight Sunday to be legal?

A rest period started in one week and finishing in the next can be counted for either week. (The week before or after). The rest finishing at midnight or not has no bearing on anything.

AaronR:
It’s the “any 2 consecutive fixed weeks” bit I’m struggling with!

Just pick two weeks, any two weeks. Now ask is there a full weekly rest in there?
In your example above if you look at week two and three then there doesnt appear to be? It looks like two reduced weekly rests , there seems to be no full weekly rest?

AaronR:
Hi guys, trying to get my head around this thoroughly to avoid any problems down the line. If a driver takes a 45 hour rest on “weekend 1” then reduce on “weekends 2 and 3” but then has a 45 on “weekend 4” is this legal? Or, as I read the rules, does that 45 on weekend 4 have to be finished by midnight Sunday to be legal?

It’s the “any 2 consecutive fixed weeks” bit I’m struggling with!

Are you under the impression that you can regularly have reduced weekly rest periods two weeks running ?

If so then you are misunderstanding the regulations, the regulations say that in any two consecutive weeks you must have either two regular weekly rest periods, or, one regular weekly rest period and one reduced weekly rest period.

Basically this means that for anyone who works regular shifts, say Monday to Friday, you must have a regular 45 hour weekly rest period at-least every second weekend.

Although it is possible to have reduced weekly rest periods two weeks running it can generally only be done once after you’ve had a rest periods of at-least 3 days, and to be honest it would be far better for you to fully understand the normal weekly rest rules before trying to get into something like that which a lot of people find confusing

AaronR:
Hi guys, trying to get my head around this thoroughly to avoid any problems down the line. If a driver takes a 45 hour rest on “weekend 1” then reduce on “weekends 2 and 3” but then has a 45 on “weekend 4” is this legal? Or, as I read the rules, does that 45 on weekend 4 have to be finished by midnight Sunday to be legal?

It’s the “any 2 consecutive fixed weeks” bit I’m struggling with!

Are you under the impression that you can regularly have reduced weekly rest periods two weeks running ?

If so then you are misunderstanding the regulations, the regulations say that in any two consecutive weeks you must have either two regular weekly rest periods, or, one regular weekly rest period and one reduced weekly rest period.

Basically this means that for anyone who works regular shifts, say Monday to Friday, you must have a regular 45 hour weekly rest period at-least every second weekend.

Although it is possible to have reduced weekly rest periods two weeks running it can generally only be done once after you’ve had a rest periods of at-least 3 days, and to be honest it would be far better for you to fully understand the normal weekly rest rules before trying to get into something like that which a lot of people find confusing

I do fully understand the “normal weekly rest” as it happens, its just there is a debate on with a driver regarding being able to reduce two weekends in a row, and if you look in the VOSA guide you will see that they give an example of working that way.

In any two consecutive ‘fixed’ weeks a driver must take at least:

two regular weekly rests; or
one regular weekly rest and one reduced weekly rest.
The following tables are examples of how a driver’s duties might be organised in compliance with the rules on weekly rest, which allow two reduced weekly rest periods to be taken consecutively. This complies with the rules because at least one regular and one reduced weekly rest period have been taken in two consecutive ‘fixed’ weeks.

It doesnt say anything about having to take a weekly rest of 3 days before hand.

I hope there was no offence taken by my remark about understanding the weekly rest periods, it certainly wasn’t intended that way

Anyway, I assume you’re referring to this example on page 23.

In the image below the two reduced weekly rest periods both fall into week 2.

Week 1 has a regular weekly rest period at the start of the week.

Week 2 has two reduced weekly rest periods.

Week 3 has a regular weekly rest period that falls at the end of the week.

Therefore although there are 2 consecutive reduced weekly rest periods only one of them will be used as a weekly rest period to count for week 2, the other will simply be used in order to start a new set of six 24 hour periods and the weekly rest that will count for week 3 is at the end of week 3.

In the image below the scenario is exactly the same as above for the first three weeks, and from week 3 the weekly rest periods are at the end of the week.

So now because the weekly rest period is at the end of the week, if you take a reduced weekly rest at the end of week 5 it’s illegal because you’ve had only reduced weekly rest periods in both weeks 4 and 5.

In other words, the only reason that it’s legal to have reduced weekly rest periods on 2 consecutive weekends in the first image, is because the weekly rest periods that counted for the respective weeks were changed from the start of the week to the end of the week.

This is why you can only do this once until you’ve had an extended weekly rest period of at-least 69 hours (69 hours equals a reduced and a regular weekly rest period back to back).

Ok I think (!) I get it!! very confusing though but from what I understand, over 3 weeks you have to take a 45 at beginning of week 1 and again at end of week 3? (that is basically how i meant it in my first message but counted the weekends rather than weeks!)

so where does the “fixed week” element come in then? I.e in your examples, does that 45 hour break have to be taken after midnight on the first day of week one? and likewise by midnight sun on week 3?

Sorry to keep asking but i need to get this right and its very confusing!!

AaronR:
Ok I think (!) I get it!! very confusing though but from what I understand, over 3 weeks you have to take a 45 at beginning of week 1 and again at end of week 3? (that is basically how i meant it in my first message but counted the weekends rather than weeks!)

so where does the “fixed week” element come in then? I.e in your examples, does that 45 hour break have to be taken after midnight on the first day of week one? and likewise by midnight sun on week 3?

A weekly rest period never has to start or end either before or after midnight on the first day of the week.

A weekly rest period that crosses over two fixed weeks (Sunday/Monday) can count for either week but not both.

A weekly rest period has to count for each week.

In the example in VOSA’s guide the 45 hour weekly rest in week 1 could cross over Sunday/Monday, as long as at-least a minute of the weekly rest period is in Monday the whole 45 hours can count as a weekly rest period for week 1.
For instance if you had a weeks holiday and returned to work on Monday morning you would be starting the week with a regular weekly rest period that would count for week 1.

In the example a reduced weekly rest was taken at the start of week 2, so for the first 2 weeks the weekly rest period that must be taken for each fixed week is taken at the start of the week.

A reduced weekly rest period is taken at the end of week 2 which if it crosses over Sunday/Monday could be used for either week 2 or 3, the problem is that because week 2 already has a reduced weekly rest period counting for it week 3 must have a regular weekly rest period, that’s the regular weekly rest period at the end of week 3.
From that point on the weekly rest periods taken each weekend will count for the week just gone, and if you have only one weekly rest period each week you would not be able to have 2 consecutive reduced weekly rest periods again until you have a rest period of at-least 69 hours.

tachograph:
Sorry to keep asking but i need to get this right and its very confusing!!

No problem, it does appear confusing until it all clicks into place

Ok I think im (slowly) starting to understand. Using your knowledge then, could you explain this scenario:

A driver has had an infringement:

at beginning of week 1 he has had 56 hours weekly rest, he then work mon-fri (week 1) then has 35hrs 52 mins rest, then starts work sunday, works sun-fri (week 2) has 35 hours 10 mins off, starts sunday again and works sun-fri (week 3), he then has a minimum 45 hours off. He has had an infringement on the sunday starting week 3 for “less than 45 hours rest in 2 weeks”.

AaronR:
Ok I think im (slowly) starting to understand. Using your knowledge then, could you explain this scenario:

A driver has had an infringement:

at beginning of week 1 he has had 56 hours weekly rest, he then work mon-fri (week 1) then has 35hrs 52 mins rest, then starts work sunday, works sun-fri (week 2) has 35 hours 10 mins off, starts sunday again and works sun-fri (week 3), he then has a minimum 45 hours off. He has had an infringement on the sunday starting week 3 for “less than 45 hours rest in 2 weeks”.

This is legal and should not incur an infringement.

The only reason for an infringement I can see would be if the driver started week 1 before midnight Sunday rather than on Monday as stated.

As you know the tachograph week starts on Monday, so if he started week 1 before midnight Sunday only the 35 hour rest would count for week 1, as he also had a reduced weekly rest in week 2 it would incur an infringement.

ROG:
Is that senario assuming that the weekly rest at the start of week 1 has not been used for the week previous?

Just checked the previous week and it seems that he had a reduced break of 35hrs 10 mins the weekend before the weekend before week 1 (if that makes sense)

ROG:
Is that senario assuming that the weekly rest at the start of week 1 has not been used for the week previous?

Just checked the previous week and it seems that he had a reduced break of 35hrs 10 mins the weekend before the weekend before week 1 (if that makes sense)

The only way to see if doing two reduced in a row is legal or not is to go back to a time where perhaps 90 hours has been taken off which includes sunday midnight then listing the weekly rests taken since then and noting if they include sunday midnight
That is the only way I know of