milodon:
what I’m seeing, is 45h off counting for the first 6 shifts, 24h off for the next 5 shifts and straight after the 5 shifts you do 6 more (assuming you don’t count the second 24h, as you can’t do two in a row) and then take 66 off to count for the 6 shifts you had already done? 11 shifts without a weekly rest, which ever way I look at it.
the second 24 is a weekly rest but it does not count as a weekly rest for any fixed week
As I said before - just because a weekly rest is not used as a weekly rest for a particular week does not mean it becomes something else - it is still a weekly rest
harry james:
Just to clarify. Prior to my first shift I
Had not worked in previous 28days.I am doing European work and am away 3 weeks. at a time.I
make sure you have this with you, Drivers’ Attestation Form, to cover periods when tachograph charts are not available, this will be needed to cover the last 28 days
here how i see this
harry james:
Anyone know if this is legal?
45hr break 6 shifts 24hr break 5 shifts 24 hr 6 shifts 66hr break.
45 rest counted in week 1
start work Monday 00:01 week 1
144 hours later
finish by Sunday 00:01
Sunday take 24 hours for 144 rule
start Monday 00:01 week 2
finish by Saturday by 00:01
Saturday take 24 hours rest week 2 rest covered
start Sunday 00.01 week 3
finish Saturday by 00.01 have 66 hours off week 3
if your wondering why start at 00.01 Monday if you want the rest to count in week 1 part of the 45 hours have to be in the week you want to use the week for.
it certainly is still a weekly rest but you can still only have a single 24h reduced weekly rest in a row, not two. I do agree, that you can have a 24h rest, that doesn’t count for anything and you can have as many as you like in a week, granted the weekly rests that do count (after you have used up 144h since the last weekly rest), aren’t reduced two weeks in a row.
milodon:
it certainly is still a weekly rest but you can still only have a single 24h reduced weekly rest in a row, not two. I do agree, that you can have a 24h rest, that doesn’t count for anything and you can have as many as you like in a week, granted the weekly rests that do count (after you have used up 144h since the last weekly rest), aren’t reduced two weeks in a row.
No more than 144 hours may be done without a weekly rest of some sort being taken but that weekly rest does not have to be the weekly rest that is counted for that week unless you have seen a new regulation that states that it must ?
This is perfectly legal
One week holiday using the last 45 hours of those holls as the full weekly rest for week 1
week 1 - work mon to sat
sunday off = reduced weekly rest which could be counted for week 2
week 2 - work mon to sat
sunday off = reduced weekly rest which could be counted for week 2
week 3 - work mon to fri
sat + sun off = full weekly rest for week 3
Either of the reduced can be counted for week 2 - the unused one is still a weekly rest but is not counted for any week
weeks 1 & 3 have a full weekly rest
This means all the regs have been complied with
The weekly rests counted go as follows… full (week1) - reduced (week 2) - full (week 3)
The non counted reduced weekly rest must be there simply to prevent more than 144 hours being done
If you still believe that both of those reduced weekly rests must be counted ones then I am at a loss as to how to help you understand and another will hopefully explain differently - its not your fault but mine because I have run out of ways to put this across
ROG:
The non counted reduced weekly rest must be there simply to prevent more than 144 hours being done
this is the root of my misunderstanding I believe - isn’t this the case with any weekly rest? I’ve never counted my weekly rest as “this here is for week 1 and this one for week 2” etc, if I start my work on a wednesday, I need to start my weekly rest on tuesday.
Let me explain exactly what I did.
Start Saturday 14.00
Finish Thursday 20.00
24 hrs rest
Start 20.10 Friday
Finish 11.30 am Tuesday
26 hrs rest
Start 13.30 Wednesday
Finish 13.00 Monday
Off now until 14.00 Thursday
72 hrs rest
harry james:
Let me explain exactly what I did.
Start Saturday 14.00
Finish Thursday 20.00
24 hrs rest
Start 20.10 Friday
Finish 11.30 am Tuesday
26 hrs rest
Start 13.30 Wednesday
Finish 13.00 Monday
Off now until 14.00 Thursday
72 hrs rest
How does that look.
ILLEGAL
The first sat & sun have a FULL weekly rest from the 28 days off
The next mon to sun have a REDUCED weekly rest of 24 hours
The next mon to sun have a REDUCED weekly rest of 26 hours
The next mon to sun have a FULL weekly rest of 72 hours
Having two REDUCED weekly rests in a row which have been counted for two consecutive fixed weeks is illegal
You also have 19 hours to pay back from the 26 hour rest over the next couple of weeks
This is why EU driving hours rules are ■■■■■■…too many IF and BUTS make it impossible for the average driver to truley understand it all. It needs simplifying and made clear what exactly can be done with no funny formulas thrown into the mix!
msgyorkie:
This is why EU driving hours rules are [zb]…too many IF and BUTS make it impossible for the average driver to truley understand it all. It needs simplifying and made clear what exactly can be done with no funny formulas thrown into the mix!
The daft thing is that if he had done the first of those shifts on a monday (either the one before or the one after) instead of a saturday then it would have been legal
harry james:
Let me explain exactly what I did.
Start Saturday 14.00
Finish Thursday 20.00
24 hrs rest
Start 20.10 Friday
Finish 11.30 am Tuesday
26 hrs rest
Start 13.30 Wednesday
Finish 13.00 Monday
Off now until 14.00 Thursday
72 hrs rest
How does that look.
That’s not legal I’m afraid, if your company analyse the tachograph charts/card you will get an infringement for insufficient weekly rest where I’ve coloured red, it should have been a 45.
msgyorkie:
This is why EU driving hours rules are [zb]…too many IF and BUTS make it impossible for the average driver to truley understand it all. It needs simplifying and made clear what exactly can be done with no funny formulas thrown into the mix!
Very few ifs or buts and no funny formulas, unless you are working to the MMTM version of the EU Drivers Hours Rules. Get a copy of GV262 from VOSA, plenty of examples to explain it all to you in there. Then a driver can quite easily understand the rules.
ROG:
Does the OP stand more chance of ‘getting done’ for this as he drives abroad ?
Nope, no more chance than in the UK.
But if he does get a pull and they look back far enough, if its within 28 days, he’ll get a much bigger fine probably.
From now on he needs to take a 45hr weekly rest on one of his two weekends away, every trip.
madguy:
tis why i said that was illegal, you would need to do a 87 at the end of week three to compensate the two reduced rests 21 x 21 x 45 = 87.
not getting any further with this so ending now.
Happy Christmas Everyone and have a Great New Year
Madguy
■■■■■■■■. There is no need for 87hrs at all.
He needs to compensate for 2 seperate reduced weekly rests.
He has three full weeks work to fit the 21hrs in, added to a daily or weekly rest, from after each reduced weekly rest.
Yes, you have to do the compensation in one block. Each reduction is a seperate occurance which has a seperate compensation. You CAN take them together if that suits your work pattern, but there is no requirement to.
He has ballsed it up. Doing 87 hrs rest will not undo his balls up, so it would be pointless unless it suits his work pattern.
ROG:
The daft thing is that if he had done the first of those shifts on a monday (either the one before or the one after) instead of a saturday then it would have been legal
I still don’t see the possibility to be legal that way. at least €400 lighter in france still
Why can’t they just make it 24 hours off within 6 days of start of shift, no matter what day or time it is and then 45 within the next 5 days to reset the lot? Utter stupidity working on a fixed time or day for this job for the purposes of defining a week when every week is different
ROG:
The daft thing is that if he had done the first of those shifts on a monday (either the one before or the one after) instead of a saturday then it would have been legal
milodon:
I still don’t see the possibility to be legal that way.
harry james:
Let me explain exactly what I did.
Start Saturday 14.00
Finish Thursday 20.00
24 hrs rest
Start 20.10 Friday
Finish 11.30 am Tuesday
26 hrs rest
Start 13.30 Wednesday
Finish 13.00 Monday
Off now until 14.00 Thursday
72 hrs rest
How does that look.
ROG: ILLEGAL
The first sat & sun have a FULL weekly rest from the 28 days off
The next mon to sun have a REDUCED weekly rest of 24 hours
The next mon to sun have a REDUCED weekly rest of 26 hours
The next mon to sun have a FULL weekly rest of 72 hours
Having two REDUCED weekly rests in a row which have been counted for two consecutive fixed weeks is illegal
You also have 19 hours to pay back from the 26 hour rest over the next couple of weeks
Had it gone like this …
Start Monday 14.00
Finish Saturday 20.00
24 hrs rest
Start 20.10 Sunday
Finish 11.30 am Thursday
26 hrs rest
Start 13.30 Friday
Finish 13.00 Wednesday
Off now until 14.00 Saturday
72 hrs rest
Then it would be legal because…
The first fixed week from mon to sun would have a FULL weekly rest counted from the last 45 hours of the 28 days off
The second fixed week from mon to sun would have a REDUCED weekly rest counted from the 26 hours off
The third fixed week from mon to sun would have a FULL weekly rest from the 72 hours off
The 24 hours weekly rest off is not needed to be counted for any fixed week but must still be there to prevent the 144 hour rule being broken
ROG:
The 24 hours weekly rest off is not needed to be counted for any fixed week but must still be there to prevent the 144 hour rule being broken
So simple when you know how it legally works
so, you do need to have a weekly rest to prevent the 144h rule from being broken. and you’ve already had a 24 off the previous week. and somehow that does not matter when the rules say you can only have one reduced weekly rest in a row. the confusion continues.
ROG:
The 24 hours weekly rest off is not needed to be counted for any fixed week but must still be there to prevent the 144 hour rule being broken
So simple when you know how it legally works
so, you do need to have a weekly rest to prevent the 144h rule from being broken. and you’ve already had a 24 off the previous week. and somehow that does not matter when the rules say you can only have one reduced weekly rest in a row. the confusion continues.
Only the confusion in your mind but not for the actual rules as they are quite clear about weekly rests and what must count for a particular week
