Zac_A:
Franglais would seem to be the one to ask about this but I understand FIMO, the french equivalent of DCPC is also valid for five years and is 35 hours duration to re-validate, and my current understanding is that it has pass or fail exams even after the initial set of exams - happily stand to be corrected if this has changed.
I don`t know, but that is my understanding too.
Zac_A:
As for Truss… Assuming she wins as most punters are predicting, I reckon she’ll be gunning for a resurgence of “traditional Conservative values” ie Victorian-age values, with workers cap-in-hand, properly “in their place” and pleading for things in the style of Uriah Heep, being " ever so 'umble"
Those awful EU rules about paying holidays based on actual pay, not just basic? The complicated way that agency workers get the same rights as full timers? The way hours are averaged so that workers aren`t effectively “laid off” on zero hours if work goes slack?
Yes these “EU red-tape” issues put the brakes on the UK economy and need to be offloaded, so that we can return to the good ole days, when workers would gather at the factory gates to ask for work that day.
Nothing to do with profit taking for shareholders, at the expense of under investment in plant. UK workers are just plain idle. l
Just look at the UK productivity figures, and then ask a Mail or Express journalist what it means. Or even ask Truss.
They all have the same understanding of economics and productivity…none. (At least, none that they admit to)
For the avoidance of doubt, you do realise I was being anti-Truss and not promoting abandonment of the rights we’ve retained from EU legislation while we were in it?
Problem is Franglais, that once you start talking about EU stuff, you will awaken your would be arch-nemesis despite the fact that Rob posted earlier decrying our insane “work all hours” haulage industry culture, which I would see almost as a point of mutual agreement
Zac_A:
For the avoidance of doubt, you do realise I was being anti-Truss and not promoting abandonment of the rights we’ve retained from EU legislation while we were in it?
Yes, I did realise that.
Zac_A:
Problem is Franglais, that once you start talking about EU stuff, you will awaken your would be arch-nemesis despite the fact that Rob posted earlier decrying our insane “work all hours” haulage industry culture, which I would see almost as a point of mutual agreement
Yeah… I know…
The…issue… affects so many parts of everyone`s life, but the mere naming of it provokes such a strong reaction… youtube.com/watch?v=SYkbqzWVHZI
Lets say you work Monday-Friday doing 8pm to 10pm as a cleaner for example.
On the weekends your hgv driving say 9 hours each day.
^ This is technically illegal right?
Even though you are only doing a combined 28 hours a week.
Or lets say you only do Sunday so your hours are only 19 hours a week, yet you can only do that once every fortnight because you have to make up your reduced weekly rest?
I’m not saying this is a typical case but am I correct? If so it seems pretty stupid.
Sabretooth:
I find your whole question ridiculous,
What right has the Government or other Authority have to dictate what part time job you can do. Providing its not driving related it should be of no matter to anyone but you.
Besides as the UK is no longer in Brexit, why do you worry about European Rules.
First of all every existing EU law was signed into UK law on the date we left as part of the Withdrawal Act.
SO YOU NEVER REALLY LEFT, YOU ARE STILL PART OF THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITY!! And still being told what to do and how to do it by the Liberal European Parliament !! Which is how its been since the end of WWII, The Froggies control Everything and Everyone. The rest of the EU just follows along and does as they are told.
Secondly they have a right to dictate because driving a 44 tonne lorry when you’ve not had sufficient rest is a dangerous thing. Do you think you’d be still fit to drive at the end of a 15hr shift if you’d done a 4hr part time job just before you started so had been on the go for over 20 hrs including your commuting time?
There’s a good little Liberal, admitting you are dictated to by a Foreign Government/s !! It would never of happened in Winston’s Day, But I doubt you know whom he was?
Also why is 44 tons different? Anything with a Motor and a tired or inebriated Junkie suffering with a lack of
inattention is a Danger to everyone. Back in the day when I was behind the wheel it was 32 tons, and 99% of drivers honored the responsibility and committed themselves to the log book regulations. There was no you can’t do a part time job, Or Big Brother is not only watching but telling you how to think !!Then along came the Tachograph and everything changed for the worst in my opinion. Suddenly everyone was racing around trying to complete the work before they ran out of time. Which is funny because on the book, Drivers planned and did the job with little problems. If you had a Breakdown you’d get 3 or 4 other trucks pull in to help you, but along came the Disc and the only help you got was the finger. Comradeship went out the door never to return.
I don’t think I would want to drive nowadays, judging by some of the comments and questions I wonder how a Car License was gained never mind an HGV. Yes I go back in time and reflect on how it used to be compared to nowadays, and looking at things in retrospect the UK especially the Trucking Industry has gone backwards and is awaiting a NEW Industrial Revolution that will give the Workers (Truckers) not only the option to voice an opinion but to officiate their own future.
I still say No Government has the right to tell you you can’t work a part time job, but obviously you and many others do or you would all rebel. And Strike the way the Froggies do, This is one time the British Stiff Upper Lip need to be retightened and declare you are a Brit no a European…
adam277:
I wonder how many CPC modules are driving related. I remember taking a few on load security. Use of tail lifts etc.
Health and safety while unloading. All this can be demonstrated while a ‘trainer’ is out on the road with a driver doing his regular round.
I don’t give a [zb] what the ‘boss’ or employer thinks. I’d sooner shift the responsibility of the ‘cpc’ training to the employer anyway over the employee.
They all have to be grounded in, and referenced to, the DCPC syllabus (see gov.uk for details and read it yourself)
You’ve completely ignored the practical, logistical side of implementing training “while out on the road” which I had painstakingly spelled out in detail, showing how it is both expensive and impractical.
As for not giving a zb for what employers think, it doesn’t matter because the employers don’t set the rules: DfT/DVSA/JAUPT etc do set the rules and as should be fairly obvious, they they aren’t going to give a zb what you think.
Clearly they dont give a crap what I think. This is just my view of how it should be done.
As for being impractical. I do not think so. That was the exact same criticism when CPC was introduced.
My idea is simple 1 driver in say a company needs to be say ‘cpc’ trained. Something that all drivers currently have to do. There would be no regulating body to give all drivers a stupid ■■■■■■■ card to every driver to prove that have had their 35 hours of training. The requirement for drivers getting their training will fall squarely on the transport manager/external or internal by providing proof that their drivers are receiving at least 1 day of ‘training’ per year. Not 35 hours over 4 years. Just 1 day a year.
If a driver does not get this ‘training’ then the transport manager will be liable for fines due to not ensuring their drivers are trained or not having records to back it up. Sure, it’s liable for abuse by dodgy firms but ah well. The CPC system is currently a joke I have done online cpc courses in which people did not even have a camera to prove they were there. Or in classroom lessons in which people could say like 2 words of English.
So my solution is kinda simple. A TM needs to ensure they keep records proving each driver gets 1 day of training per year. No liability on the driver at all and its all on the TM to ensure it happens and he keeps the records proving it.
That being said I am a driver and I am heavily biased lol. I do not like the idea that it is the driver’s responsibility to ensure his CPC is up to date and often having to pay for it themselves.
adam277:
I wonder how many CPC modules are driving related. I remember taking a few on load security. Use of tail lifts etc.
Health and safety while unloading. All this can be demonstrated while a ‘trainer’ is out on the road with a driver doing his regular round.
I don’t give a [zb] what the ‘boss’ or employer thinks. I’d sooner shift the responsibility of the ‘cpc’ training to the employer anyway over the employee.
They all have to be grounded in, and referenced to, the DCPC syllabus (see gov.uk for details and read it yourself)
You’ve completely ignored the practical, logistical side of implementing training “while out on the road” which I had painstakingly spelled out in detail, showing how it is both expensive and impractical.
As for not giving a zb for what employers think, it doesn’t matter because the employers don’t set the rules: DfT/DVSA/JAUPT etc do set the rules and as should be fairly obvious, they they aren’t going to give a zb what you think.
Clearly they dont give a crap what I think. This is just my view of how it should be done.
As for being impractical. I do not think so. That was the exact same criticism when CPC was introduced.
My idea is simple 1 driver in say a company needs to be say ‘cpc’ trained. Something that all drivers currently have to do. There would be no regulating body to give all drivers a stupid [zb] card to every driver to prove that have had their 35 hours of training. The requirement for drivers getting their training will fall squarely on the transport manager/external or internal by providing proof that their drivers are receiving at least 1 day of ‘training’ per year. Not 35 hours over 4 years. Just 1 day a year.
If a driver does not get this ‘training’ then the transport manager will be liable for fines due to not ensuring their drivers are trained or not having records to back it up. Sure, it’s liable for abuse by dodgy firms but ah well. The CPC system is currently a joke I have done online cpc courses in which people did not even have a camera to prove they were there. Or in classroom lessons in which people could say like 2 words of English.
So my solution is kinda simple. A TM needs to ensure they keep records proving each driver gets 1 day of training per year. No liability on the driver at all and its all on the TM to ensure it happens and he keeps the records proving it.
That being said I am a driver and I am heavily biased lol. I do not like the idea that it is the driver’s responsibility to ensure his CPC is up to date and often having to pay for it themselves.
Adam, when do you think CPC was introduced ?
Because again back in the day a Transport Manager, Owner Driver and anyone responsible for one or more Trucks was required to have a Certificate of Professional Competence (1979 / 80). I understand things have changed but the way Transportation is today is because of yesteryear. I don’t think requiring a company Driver to have a CPC is a bad thing but it is definitely in the over kill mode at the moment. As to your comment of No-one listens to me !! We’ll young man, you have the right to vote. You just have to make sure you know who you’re voting for and question if that person will project and protect your interests, and do something to help further your career and better your life.
I have no magic answer for you, and relate to what you would call ancient history, coupled with so called progression to modern times. I also believe that you have to remove the pencil pushers from the equation, the people making policy decisions should be those who have the qualifications they are trying to modify or introduce. And without being condescending to you and others, you hit the nail on the head. Not only if you could spell you wouldn’t be a truck Driver !! If you had the education you obviously seek you could be a policy maker!!!
Oh I would love to know why a trucker needs a Europe CPC because they are working within Europe and Beyond? A CPC of the country of Origin should be enough ! However if you are talking about Health and Safety and Hazardous Materials then knowing the different regulations and procedures of countries you visit should be a requirement.
adam277:
I wonder how many CPC modules are driving related. I remember taking a few on load security. Use of tail lifts etc.
Health and safety while unloading. All this can be demonstrated while a ‘trainer’ is out on the road with a driver doing his regular round.
I don’t give a [zb] what the ‘boss’ or employer thinks. I’d sooner shift the responsibility of the ‘cpc’ training to the employer anyway over the employee.
They all have to be grounded in, and referenced to, the DCPC syllabus (see gov.uk for details and read it yourself)
You’ve completely ignored the practical, logistical side of implementing training “while out on the road” which I had painstakingly spelled out in detail, showing how it is both expensive and impractical.
As for not giving a zb for what employers think, it doesn’t matter because the employers don’t set the rules: DfT/DVSA/JAUPT etc do set the rules and as should be fairly obvious, they they aren’t going to give a zb what you think.
Clearly they dont give a crap what I think. [emoji14] This is just my view of how it should be done.
As for being impractical. I do not think so. That was the exact same criticism when CPC was introduced.
My idea is simple 1 driver in say a company needs to be say ‘cpc’ trained. Something that all drivers currently have to do. There would be no regulating body to give all drivers a stupid [zb] card to every driver to prove that have had their 35 hours of training. The requirement for drivers getting their training will fall squarely on the transport manager/external or internal by providing proof that their drivers are receiving at least 1 day of ‘training’ per year. Not 35 hours over 4 years. Just 1 day a year.
If a driver does not get this ‘training’ then the transport manager will be liable for fines due to not ensuring their drivers are trained or not having records to back it up. Sure, it’s liable for abuse by dodgy firms but ah well. The CPC system is currently a joke I have done online cpc courses in which people did not even have a camera to prove they were there. Or in classroom lessons in which people could say like 2 words of English.
So my solution is kinda simple. A TM needs to ensure they keep records proving each driver gets 1 day of training per year. No liability on the driver at all and its all on the TM to ensure it happens and he keeps the records proving it.
That being said I am a driver and I am heavily biased lol. I do not like the idea that it is the driver’s responsibility to ensure his CPC is up to date and often having to pay for it themselves.
So what about the 50%* of drivers who work through an agency? And you want to remove the card system whereby they can prove they have been trained. Also new joiners to a company, what grace do they get before they have to be trained? And new pass drivers?
I hear Liz Truss is looking for good people with well thought out policies to implement [emoji6]
adam277:
So my solution is kinda simple. A TM needs to ensure they keep records proving each driver gets 1 day of training per year. No liability on the driver at all and its all on the TM to ensure it happens and he keeps the records proving it.
Yes, because that’s precisely what TMs want, to nursemaid fully-grown adults. Like we don’t have enough to deal with: see gov.uk for the various Statutory Documents, particularly: No’s 1, 2, 3, and 6
adam277:
That being said I am a driver and I am heavily biased lol
I won’t disagree on that
Bottom line is that driving an HGV means accepting responsibilities, as does being a TM.
I still have my cards and entitlements but AFAIAC I’ve done my time as a driver, I accepted my driver responsibilities at the time; now I’m mostly being a TM (and DGSA and ADT trainer) and I have a different set of responsibilities, but I expect my drivers to be as responsible as I was when I was doing their job. I’m not expecting anyone to do anything that I didn’t willingly do myself.
Sabretooth:
Adam, when do you think CPC was introduced ?
Because again back in the day a Transport Manager, Owner Driver and anyone responsible for one or more Trucks was required to have a Certificate of Professional Competence (1979 / 80). I understand things have changed but the way Transportation is today is because of yesteryear.
The TM-CPC is still as necessary as ever - except for restricted licences, even then it is often stipulated by the TC (at their own discretion) that these guys must have a TMCPC-qualified TM.
Apart from the very few people who get a restricted O-licence without the TMCPC requirement, NO ONE else gets on an O-licence without one.
Don`t fret Truss may be binning EU rules and regs…
Without getting political, Truss has said she basis herself on and as another Margaret Thatcher ? We’ll Thatcher did nothing for Transportation with her privatization but she did create big problems for the mines to the point it was basically the end of Arthur Scargill and the Miners Union. I hope one of the first things SHE does is tighten the Belt against cheap Chinese imports which are killing all industrialized nations. Perhaps there should be a Chinese tariff , whereby anyone transporting and selling Chinese goods has to pay a little more than for British Goods. And don’t try saying China is a big player in the world markets, When Mao was running the show no one cared about China and the world continued to revolve… You know going back to Pre thatcher The UK traded with Scandinavia, Australia, New Zealand which kept Food products like Lamb, Butter and Cheese affordable. When Thatcher got in she was all EEC and prices went out of control.
As the saying goes, although its too late now, be careful what you wish for. Because you will be all TRUSS-ED up with no escape…
despite the fact that Rob posted earlier decrying our insane “work all hours” haulage industry culture, which I would see almost as a point of mutual agreement
This is just my view of how it should be done.