Weekly Rest Question

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Im new to trucknet but ben driving hgvs for around 6 years. Up until about 3 months ago I have always driven vehicles with analogue tachos in them. Maybe used my card a few times but not very often. I am now working with an agency and I did trunking for a week and got myself into a mess by not keeping proper records of my driving time and did over my nine hours four times and shortened my daily rest 4 times. Im not blaming the agency,it is all my own fault for not keeping notes of start,finish etc. I have spent the last few weeks studying the driving regulations and the WTD as I was never 100% sure about it and I understand most of it but Im completely lost about the weekly rest regulations,in particular the shortened weekly rest.

“A regular weekly rest of at least 45 hours, or a reduced weekly rest of at least 24 hours, must be started no later than the end of six consecutive 24-hour periods from the end of the last weekly rest. In any two consecutive weeks, a driver must have at least two weekly rests - one of which must be at least 45 hours long. A weekly rest that falls in two weeks may be counted in either week but not in both. Any reductions must be compensated in one block by an equivalent rest added to another rest period of at least 9 hours before the end of the third week, following the week in question.”

So I need to take 45 hours one week and then I can shorten to 24 the next. But I do nights. So if I finish at,say, 6am on Saturday morning can I begin again at 3am on Monday for 45 hours? Or is this classed as falling in two weeks?
Also,

“Any reductions must be compensated in one block by an equivalent rest added to another rest period of at least 9 hours before the end of the third week, following the week in question.”

What? That is gobbely de ■■■■ to me. Can anyone explain this in much simpler terms?

If anyone can shed light on this part of the DH I would greatly appreciate it. I have 8 infringments on my card,6 from the one week, and I am determined not to get any more.

Thanks

2

theiceman1978:
So I need to take 45 hours one week and then I can shorten to 24 the next. But I do nights. So if I finish at,say, 6am on Saturday morning can I begin again at 3am on Monday for 45 hours? Or is this classed as falling in two weeks?

No that’s fine, doesn’t matter that it straddles two weeks.

theiceman1978:
“Any reductions must be compensated in one block by an equivalent rest added to another rest period of at least 9 hours before the end of the third week, following the week in question.”

What? That is gobbely de ■■■■ to me. Can anyone explain this in much simpler terms?

Well, suppose I have a reduced weekly rest of say 40 hours. Sometime in the next week, or in the three weeks following that, I need to pay that reduction back. I can either take a weekly rest of 50 hours, which is 45 + 5, or I can add it to a daily rest, i.e. have 14 hours off, 9 + 5 and it’s then been paid back.

3

Firstly well done for recognising the problem and for taking steps to prevent it happening again mate. I don’t mean this in a goody two shoes way, put it simply infingemants are going to hurt your wallet eventually, and money is what gets us out of bed.

The thing about tacho regs is that if you know them inside out you can be very creative (split breaks etc) but to tell you that now will only confuse the matter. So in the interest of keeping it simple re weekend breaks I would recommend working no more than 6 days one week, and then 5 days the next. That way you’ll pretty much not fall foul of the weekly rest requirements. The WTD on the other hand… :wink:

4

Thanks for your reply mate.
Last week I worked 5 days consecutive and had 47 hours from 0700 saturday morning till 0600 today (monday). Is this counted as 1 full weekly rest? Or is it only a reduced because it went over 2359 on Sunday into the new “tacho week” on Monday?
Plus,this week Im working Monday,Tuesday,Wednesday,Friday and Saturday (not thursday or Sunday) So I will have approx 36 hrs rest from sunday morning till my monday night shift. But I will also have approx 36 hours from Thursday morning till friday night shift. It is more the part about when the rest flows over two weeks(or whatever the regulation states) and the compensation required to be added on that is blowing my mind.
Any ideas?

Thanks

5

And night time work too!!! That’s a whole different ball game with the WTD

Unless you just sign a waiver and opt out

6

the maoster:
Firstly well done for recognising the problem and for taking steps to prevent it happening again mate. I don’t mean this in a goody two shoes way, put it simply infingemants are going to hurt your wallet eventually, and money is what gets us out of bed.

The thing about tacho regs is that if you know them inside out you can be very creative (split breaks etc) but to tell you that now will only confuse the matter. So in the interest of keeping it simple re weekend breaks I would recommend working no more than 6 days one week, and then 5 days the next. That way you’ll pretty much not fall foul of the weekly rest requirements. The WTD on the other hand… :wink:

.
How would you payback your reduced rest hours by working 5 days then 6 days?

7

A fixed week is sunday midnight to sunday midnight and is known as week

Every week must have a weekly rest in it and by in it means at least one minute in it

Every other week must be at least a 45 hour regular weekly rest and the other weeks must be at least 24 hours

Any weekly rest which includes sunday midnight can be used for the fixed week ending or the fixed week starting but cannot be used for both

Payback for a reduced weekly rest must be paid in full in one go by the sunday midnight at the end of the third week following the week in which the reduced weekly rest was taken

Payback for a weekly rest can follow any rest period be it a regular or reduced weekly or daily one

There may be times when a week has more than one weekly rest in it where only one needs to be used for that week so in such a case the driver chooses which they want to be used for that week

Any weekly rest not used as the weekly rest for a week does not need compensating for but does reset the max 144 hour period (6x24 hours) allowed between weekly rests

Does that make things any clearer or did it make it worse? !!!

8

theiceman1978:
So I need to take 45 hours one week and then I can shorten to 24 the next. But I do nights. So if I finish at,say, 6am on Saturday morning can I begin again at 3am on Monday for 45 hours? Or is this classed as falling in two weeks?

A weekly rest period that crosses over two weeks, in other words it crosses over Sunday Midnight into Monday morning, can be used for either week but not both.

If you have a 45 hour weekly rest period it doesn’t mater if it starts in one week and finishes in the next week the whole rest period counts as one weekly rest period, in your example you finished work at 06:00 Saturday and started the next shift at 03:00 Monday and that’s fine, it’s 45 hours rest so it’s a regular weekly rest period.

theiceman1978:
“Any reductions must be compensated in one block by an equivalent rest added to another rest period of at least 9 hours before the end of the third week, following the week in question.”

What? That is gobbely de ■■■■ to me. Can anyone explain this in much simpler terms?

You know that you have to pay back compensation for a reduced weekly rest period, so if for example you have a 40 hour reduced weekly rest period you have to pay back 5 hours to make up the 45 hours.

The compensation (in this example 5 hours) has to be paid back in one lump, you cannot pay it back in segments like a couple of hours now and anther couple of hours tomorrow, the compensation for each reduced weekly rest period has to be paid back in one go.
You can pay back the compensation by adding it onto any daily or weekly rest period of 9 hours or more.

The compensation has to be paid back by the end of the third week following the week you had the reduced weekly rest period in.
Lets say you have a reduced weekly rest period this week, you have 3 weeks after this week to pay back the compensations, in other words you would have next week and the week after that and the week after that (3 weeks after this week).

But remember that the compensation has to be paid back by the end of the third week following the week you had the reduced weekly rest period in, so it has to be paid back by the Sunday midnight of the third week, Sunday midnight being the end of the week.

9

Boris1971:
How would you payback your reduced rest hours by working 5 days then 6 days?

Early finish on a Friday, or late start on a Monday.

If you work a six day week, for example finish 1600 Saturday and start at 0400 Monday, then you are only reducing your rest by 9 hours and so you only need to have a 54 hour rest to compensate for it (45+9), finish 1900 Friday and start 0100 Monday the following weekend would do it.

10

Boris1971:

the maoster:
Firstly well done for recognising the problem and for taking steps to prevent it happening again mate. I don’t mean this in a goody two shoes way, put it simply infingemants are going to hurt your wallet eventually, and money is what gets us out of bed.

The thing about tacho regs is that if you know them inside out you can be very creative (split breaks etc) but to tell you that now will only confuse the matter. So in the interest of keeping it simple re weekend breaks I would recommend working no more than 6 days one week, and then 5 days the next. That way you’ll pretty much not fall foul of the weekly rest requirements. The WTD on the other hand… :wink:

.
How would you payback your reduced rest hours by working 5 days then 6 days?

Ok, lets assume a “normal” (if there is such a thing) shift pattern of Monday to Saturday in week 1, and Monday to Friday in week 2. Week 1 you finish at for example 1600 hrs Saturday and start back Monday at 0400 hrs. You have reduced your break to 36 hours (meaning you have 9 hours to pay back.

Week 2 you finish at 1800 hours on the Friday and as long as you do not start work BEFORE 0001 hours on the Monday you have paid back fully your reduced break from the previous week. Basically 1800 Friday plus 45 hours takes you to 1500 hours Sunday, then add the reduced 9 hours which takes you to midnight Sun/monday morning. Hope I explained that in an understandable way mate.

Disclaimer; any crap and bad mathematics is down to Fosters intake and I can accept no responsibility for ensuing prison sentences.

11

After reading all the above posts my head hurts :laughing:

12

Thanks for all your replies. I’m getting the hang of understanding it now. So if I take a reduced rest of only 25 hours,I need to pay back 20 by the third week?
Eg
Week 1 - 25hrs rest
Week 2 - 45 hrs
Week 3 - 65 hrs

Seems a bit much. That’s almost 4 days

Sorry if im being a bit dense.

13

theiceman1978:
Thanks for all your replies. I’m getting the hang of understanding it now. So if I take a reduced rest of only 25 hours,I need to pay back 20 by the third week?
Eg
Week 1 - 25hrs rest
Week 2 - 45 hrs
Week 3 - 65 hrs

Seems a bit much. That’s almost 4 days

Sorry if im being a bit dense.

96 hours is 4 days dude. You been on the Fosters too? :smiley:

Finish 1800 Friday, start 1100 Monday. Bob’s yer Uncle, 65 hrs break.

14

theiceman1978:
Thanks for all your replies. I’m getting the hang of understanding it now. So if I take a reduced rest of only 25 hours,I need to pay back 20 by the third week?
Eg
Week 1 - 25hrs rest
Week 2 - 45 hrs
Week 3 - 65 hrs
Week 4 is the third week following the the week in which you took the weekly rest period, so the compensation has to be paid back by midnight Sunday week 4.

Seems a bit much. That’s almost 4 days

Sorry if im being a bit dense.

Your maths has already been corrected by the maoster so I won’t bother :smiley: :wink:

15

BIG LIGHTBULB ABOVE HEAD!!!

I get it now.

Thanks a lot guys,much appreciated

16

the maoster:
Ok, lets assume a “normal” (if there is such a thing) shift pattern of Monday to Saturday in week 1, and Monday to Friday in week 2. Week 1 you finish at for example 1600 hrs Saturday and start back Monday at 0400 hrs. You have reduced your break to 36 hours (meaning you have 9 hours to pay back.

Week 2 you finish at 1800 hours on the Friday and as long as you do not start work BEFORE 0001 hours on the Monday you have paid back fully your reduced break from the previous week. Basically 1800 Friday plus 45 hours takes you to 1500 hours Sunday, then add the reduced 9 hours which takes you to midnight Sun/monday morning. Hope I explained that in an understandable way mate.

Disclaimer; any crap and bad mathematics is down to Fosters intake and I can accept no responsibility for ensuing prison sentences.

I think the fosters got to you on that bit because it matters not about the end of the fixed week where payback is concerned with the exception if its the end of week 4

17

ROG:

the maoster:
Ok, lets assume a “normal” (if there is such a thing) shift pattern of Monday to Saturday in week 1, and Monday to Friday in week 2. Week 1 you finish at for example 1600 hrs Saturday and start back Monday at 0400 hrs. You have reduced your break to 36 hours (meaning you have 9 hours to pay back.

Week 2 you finish at 1800 hours on the Friday and as long as you do not start work BEFORE 0001 hours on the Monday you have paid back fully your reduced break from the previous week. Basically 1800 Friday plus 45 hours takes you to 1500 hours Sunday, then add the reduced 9 hours which takes you to midnight Sun/monday morning. Hope I explained that in an understandable way mate.

Disclaimer; any crap and bad mathematics is down to Fosters intake and I can accept no responsibility for ensuing prison sentences.

I think the fosters got to you on that bit because it matters not about the end of the fixed week where payback is concerned with the exception if its the end of week 4

In the example, starting before midnight Sunday would mean that the compensation was not paid back for the previous weeks reduced weekly rest period, it was in answer to how you can have a reduced weekly rest period every second week and still pay back the compensation owed, it’s nothing to do with the fixed week.

I’ve no idea what the extra minute between midnight and 00:01 if for though, perhaps it’s a minutes extra drinking time or something :slight_smile:

18

ROG:
I think the fosters got to you on that bit because it matters not about the end of the fixed week where payback is concerned with the exception if its the end of week 4

:smiley: :smiley: .yeah the Fosters had bitten me, but in my defence the op had asked us to keep it simple so I wasn’t going to confuse the matter by talking about fixed weeks/working weeks etc. my recommendation was to keep it simple by doing 5 day/6 day shifts, so maybe my example should have been a different start time to 0001 Sunday which could possibly confuse matters.